jaspeter

I don't frequent this forum nearly as often as I did years ago, but I'm glad to see a lot of dedicated users still here after over a decade. The fact that ten years has elapsed has really brought several things to light for me. The first, as I mentioned, is the continued dedication of PX-5S owners, old and new. The second is the fact that I haven't had to replace a worn-out instrument. My PX-5S gets a decent workout at least several times per week and has consistently done so since I got it shortly after Casio introduced it. I would not have expected that kind of longevity out of it. That said, it didn't take long before discovering that the keybed is LOUD. My daughter mentioned that it sounds like a hailstorm when I play. As most others with this complaint have discovered, it really isn't on the key strike, but on the release as the action returns to its rest position. This, more than anything, has made me look elsewhere for a different keyboard. However... Third, I'm still learning that this board was ahead of its time. Even when I research and try new competitors, I'm not all that impressed by the capability improvements that I expected a decade to bring. The PX-5S has knobs that you can assign to several EQ bands... or not. They can be whatever you want. Some of the new keyboards are advertising multi-function knobs or dedicated EQ knobs as though they're a new thing that was just discovered. The sounds on the new (ROMpler-type) keyboards don't seem to have changed much since 2010, either. There is some pretty cool processing and modelling available on other keyboards in addition to the samples, but it doesn't seem to make as much of a difference to me as it's advertised to make. Fourth, speaking of sounds, the ones on the PX-5S may not be incredibly impressive out of the box (don't get me wrong - some are!), but they're infinitely tweakable with envelopes and FX. Earlier this evening, I was trying to mimic the montuno pattern in Smooth (Santana). It didn't quite sound right. Then I realized a lot of montuno styles play in octaves, but I was using my left hand for bass notes. What if I add another piano layer and tune it up an octave? Bingo! Except I don't want to do that to the bass hand. No problem - click, click, click, and the range of the new layer only covers down to the bottom treble note. It could use a bit of EQ on the high mids. Hey, did I mention there's a knob for that? Then I thought, just for giggles, how close could I get to Santana's guitar sound? I flipped through the guitar tones and found that the Overdrive tone was surprisingly not too bad, but it could be better. I selected the Clean Guitar (which sounds nothing like Santana, of course), and punched in the Distortion FX. Still not close, but some tweaks to the wah and distortion levels, and finally adding the RStack amp, some reverb and chorus (assigned to sliders!) and I was impressed! It wouldn't fool a die-hard Santana fan, but with some pitch wheel work, it was actually impressive that sound was coming out of the PX-5S. It would be nice to have a monphonic mode for parts like this, but I admit I don't actually use it all that much for lead sounds that would benefit by mono mode. To get around the clacking keyboard issue, I thought I would try out VSTs hosted on my PC. If I was happy with that, I could shop for a keyboard almost solely on keybed feel and then just run it through the PC for sound. That worked, but there was a lot of fiddling involved in finding and installing a host, finding VST instruments, and running cables to a USB interface. A lot of the VST instruments advertised as "free" really aren't, or they don't sound like they're advertised to, or they aren't in the standard VST format (to force you to use that company's host). Even after setup, you still have to hook up cables, boot up the PC, start applications, and recall settings. When I just want to sit down, put on my headphones, and play and relax, I don't want to have to put myself through that. Fifth - I only have to sit down and push a button to have my keys ready to go. Sixth, I don't gig much, but when I did gig a little, the PX-5S is lightweight and super-portable. The only other equipment I had was a keyboard stand, bench, pedals, cables, and a DI box. The line-outs are not very impressive, especially if you have to run them for any length to the mixer or powered amps. The DI makes all the difference. So, here I am, with no replacement for my PX-5S on the horizon. I have been eyeballing the new Roland FP-E50. But I haven't convinced myself that it's worth the investment after considering all the points above. I've also considered "Frankensteining" the PX-5S into a compact keyboardless sound module, and then just buying a controller keyboard. But I think the odds of success are probably pretty low. I think I will just keep using the PX-5S until something goes seriously wrong with it and forces me to move on. Given how it has performed so far, that could still be quite awhile!

For anyone wondering, it turns out that the MOTU M4 just expects a hotter line level than many (most?) synths/keyboards output. It's not an issue with the PX-5S. I did more testing and found that my Yamaha Reface has the same issue with it. More searching online turned up that most folks trying to run a keyboard through channels 3&4 of the MOTU-M4 experienced the same thing. Unfortunately, I let the MOTU sit around for several months before opening the box, so I don't think it's returnable. I'm going to have to sell it.

I thought I had done my due diligence looking for previous threads about this before posting. I had not. There is a discussion here, including Mike Martin talking about his MOTU interface. I doubt there is anything new to add. I don't typically have an issue with my Roland Mobile Cube. I'm suspecting the output overhead of the PX-5S and the input overhead of the MOTU may just be working against each other. I probably need to continue to tweak settings.

Does anyone use the MOTU-M4 USB audio interface with the PX-5S? I finally acquired one and started fiddling with it this evening. The line-level input from the PX-5S to the MOTU is quite low and, unfortunately, the interface doesn't allow for input gain adjustment on the line-level inputs. The level is too low even though I've tried several possible solutions: Maxing out the volume knob has minimal effect Adjusting the Zone and Tone volumes have minimal effect Maxing out the master compressor level and master EQ level helps somewhat, but the output signal becomes quite distorted I've also noticed that plugging directly into line-level inputs of a mixer generally results in a low volume. I've been getting around this by using DIs and, as a result, the preamp in the mixer to amplify the signal. I'm starting to wonder if the PX-5S line outputs are just generally low. Could this be a result of "consumer line level" (-10dbV) versus "pro line level" (+4 dBu), perhaps? I understand there is a 12 dB difference in signal levels in these two standards. It would certainly explain the issues I'm experiencing with the audio interface as well as observations other folks have made in other forum posts concerning live sound.

The sampler capability did get me to consider that I could always sample the "finished product" sounds from the PX-5S - even percussion loops! The pads would free up some of the keyboard space I currently use for drums or other triggers. It definitely brings capabilities to the table that I could use!

The more I'm investigating, the more I think you're right about it not being that dated. The PX-5S still appears competitive. I have been able to approximate just about any sound I've run across. I also didn't realize how valuable the programmable arpeggiators really were. Many of the boards I've looked at only have canned arps, and they sometimes only have one or two arpeggiators. I had to read this a couple of times before I realized you meant "keyboard" when you said "KB". I like a simple setup, but one kilobyte is a little too simple, even for me! 😂 I have a decent day job, so the money isn't a huge deal. It's surprising to me, though, how difficult it is to find one setup that "ticks all the boxes", even with a flexible budget! I'm considering the laptop route. The flexibility and options are tantalizing. However, it does seem "fiddly" to me between performance tuning, system updates, remembering to turn off extra computer functions that can interfere with a live performance, and having yet another piece of gear (Audio/MIDI interface) to have to set up. I have considered opening the case and checking the contacts, but that does leave me with the very real possibility of needing a new keyboard even more urgently because I really messed something up. This has been my story, too. I never tried it before I bought it and it's been great. My fingers are getting tired more quickly than they used to, so a quicker, lighter keybed (like a synth action) might be welcome, although the retriggering hasn't been an issue for me, especially in the treble octaves. That's yet another point to consider. I'm wondering if I'd prefer a less strenuous semi-weighted/synth-action keyboard. Most self-contained keyboards are weighted for the 88-key models, though, so this is another argument for a computer setup. This is true. I've even had the fantasy of "chopping" the PX-5S up to isolate just the sound engine and controls as a standalone MIDI module. But it is just a fantasy. I suspect that is far beyond my capability and definitly beyond the time I'd have available to do that. Thanks for weighing in!

I had a gig last night and it reminded me how much I enjoy setting up and playing the PX-5S. It makes the decision that much harder. It's getting older and more dated, but it still is very suited to my style and workflow. On the other hand, I've had it for so long that maybe my style and workflow are what they are because they are defined by what the PX-5S can do. Grrrrrr... The more I think about it, the more I continue to be torn.

I looked into the song sequencer, but I don't want to lock myself into the song structure that tightly. I gig with a singer a couple times a month and it's not uncommon to either have to vamp over a song section because of things going on at the venue, or one of us misses a cue. If the song sequencer could just loop on different parts of the song until I tell it to advance it would me more useful to me. Maybe it has a function like that, but it wasn't obvious to me reading through the manual. The number of songs that can be stored was also somewhat restrictive compared to 100 stage settings. Thanks for the suggestion, though!

...The question I'm still waffling on. I don't know exactly why I'm waffling, I love my PX-5S and it does almost everything I want it to do. Almost. I think that's why I'm waffling. But the question has become urgent. After 8 1/2 years of moderate to heavy use, it's showing signs that it isn't going to last much longer. I've mentioned a few in previous posts (no, I haven't pulled the trigger on new gear yet - I'm a waffler): it's intermittently choosing to not save Zone 3 settings in my Stage Settings, the "0" button to select the first Stage Setting in each bank is also not working 100% of the time. But now the Phrase Start/Stop button is no longer functional. I pressed it and a few moments later, when I pressed it again, it just didn't do anything. At all. And it hasn't since. Dead. This isn't a huge problem, because I always map Pedal 2 to start and stop the phrase, but with the top buttons starting to go out, it's only a matter of time until it's a critical one. Here are the things that have kept me from calling my local music store and ordering another PX-52 (and a few other "pros" that indicate why I'm waffling). I'd appreciate if anyone has ideas that might help me make an informed decision. I love that the PX-5S has so much customizability in drum kits. I've made extensive use of the envelope editing for the drums. Unfortunately, the price is that I give up a hex layer. I could really use that extra hex layer. It would be awesome if percussion had it's own dedicated "Zone". I don't love that I'm limited to one phrase. I use the phrase player almost exclusively as a drum track, but there's no intro/verse/chorus variation. I've resorted to sneakiness to make it work, like routing certain instruments to DSPs then turning the DSP volumes on and off, but that has it's own limitations. I would have liked some pads in addition to (or instead) of some sliders or knobs. I find myself more often turning things off and on rather than changing their values. I love that I can show up to a gig or practice with one piece of gear. Of course, there are the necessary peripherals like pedals, cables, monitor, and DI, but instrument-wise, it's just the PX-5S. I would really like a legato/monophonic mode. It's a rare occasion that I need to bust out a lead part (and I'm honestly not that good at that), but I think it would go a long way. The existing portomento doesn't quite cut it because it still allows the note envelope to retrigger. In the MIDI manual, it says that there is a portomento control that shuts off the existing note when you play a new one. I've experimented with this and it kind of works, and I think I could rig something up with a my MIDI Event Processor, but it still retriggers the attack envelope, so it doesn't really cut it. I think that's actually all: a dedicated drum zone, phrase variation capability, pads, and mono mode. To be honest, the last two I could live without pretty easily. I was looking at the PX-360M and the MZX-500. Both would tick the box for the phrase variations. In the case of the MZX-500, I lose my 88 keys. In the former case... I'm not sure what I lose. I'm still doing research, but it looks like the Zones are more restrictive, like I can't assign 4 different DSPs (which I never thought I'd miss, but I use them all the time). I'm not 100% sure of that, though. With either of these options, I'd have to reprogram all my Stage Settings, too, which doesn't excite me. I've also looked outside the Casio family and I've flirted with the Roland FA-08, but I haven't tried one out and I felt like there were still some functions missing that I've taken for granted with the PX-5S. This was a long post, but if you got this far, you might also have some ideas for me. I'd love to hear them!

The Kronos has balanced outputs. If you were taking advantage of that by using a 1/4" TRS cable to feed the balanced input of a PA, that could make a difference. My first gig, I ran the PX-5S output directly from the keyboard into the 1/4" input of a PA and was not happy with the results. It was quiet and noisy. Then I bought a cheap (really cheap, like, less than $10) DI box. I run a short 1/4" instrument cable from the PX-5S to the DI then an XLR to the mixer. It makes a huge difference. The balanced output from the DI takes care of the noise and the mic preamp onboard the PA takes care of the low input signal. I've since upgraded to a better 2-channel DI and run stereo when I use my own powered speakers. Of course, the whole balanced vs. unbalanced may all be irrelevant if you're in a music room with the PA in arm's reach, but it might be worth a shot. There are good arguments to only using mono for live performances, but I've also found that the sound is closer to what I expect from headphones when I run stereo output (especially with the rotary DSP). So if you aren't running stereo out, you might try that, too.

I just reread this thread and Choppin mentions trying the NRPNs but it not working. The implementation for NRPNs is a little ambiguous in the manual, so it might have just been that. For the record, though, I think Choppin probably beat me to it.

I just ran into this same issue while trying to use the "Wah Depth" parameter of the Distortion DSP. ... and I found a solution! I noticed in the MIDI Implementation Manual that the DSP parameters are controllable by NRPNs, which the PX-5S can assign to sliders. To do this, you make sure your Zone has the appropriate DSP already selected. Then, edit the Slider CC as you normally would, but instead of choosing "Wah Depth", choose NRPN. Now change the MSB value to 035. The LSB value determines which DSP parameter will be adjusted. In my case, "Wah Depth" corresponds to an LSB value of 004. The LSB for "Phaser Manual" is 001 (with the Phaser DSP selected), or 003 for "Auto Pan Manual" (with Auto Pan DSP selected). The MSB value stays at 035. I suspect Casio was going to release the PX-5S with NRPNs as the only way to change controllers, but then decided that it would be more usable with the DSP parameters hard-coded into the CC menu (which is true!) But a mistake was made in programming the relative CC ranges. This is completely speculation, but at least the NRPNs work as intended! I hope it works for you!

Well, I'll be darned! It really works! I messed it up a little trying to filter control messages, but once I figured that out, it did the trick! I did find that the manual tone reference was off by one. The reference program change number starts at zero, but the menu in the PX-5S starts at one. This is brilliant! Thanks again, Brad!

Ohhhhhhh! I was so close! I got the two pieces of the puzzle, but didn't see how they fit together! I'll try this later today and report back. This is exciting! Thanks, Brad!

Another powerful trick I found this weekend along these lines is that each zone can send its own Bank/Program message when a new Stage Setting is selected. In other words, you could conceivably output to four external pieces of MIDI gear and have them all change to the appropriate patch when you select a different Stage Setting. I've had my PX-5S for almost a decade and just discovered it could do this! I was excited to try it with my Alesis SR-18 drum machine so I could free up Zone 1 on the PX-5S, which I currently use for drums. Unfortunately, I hit a roadblock on the Alesis. A Program Change received by the Alesis will change drum sets, not drum patterns. The main reason I haven't already been using the SR-18 is because I don't want to have to remember to keep track of multiple patch changes between songs "in the heat of battle". One button is enough!

I finally got a good reason to try this. I needed to layer a separate tone but couldn't use an available zone because I needed them to have their own arpeggiators for other parts. It worked! ...kind of. Because the tone selection is in the system-wide mixer, it doesn't appear you can save that information on a Stage Setting basis. Rather, it's global to all settings. That still works because I don't plan to use this trick a lot, but it's a little disappointing. I patched the MIDI Out directly to the MIDI In, with no device in between. You will get MIDI feedback if you don't filter out program changes: System setting - MIDI - Rx filter - Program Change : On. This is a little counter-intuitive, because you're turning the filter on, which filters out the Program Change messages. Otherwise, the PX-5S will get stuck in an infinite loop selecting Stage Setting 0-0.

It's a bit pricey, but the Roland DP-10 has a rubber pad that rotates out from underneath for your heel to rest on and help keep the pedal from wandering. It's also closer to a traditional piano sustain pedal action. Alternatively, you can get a small nonslip piece of carpet to rest both your foot and pedal on. I've even seen people use large pieces of carpet under their entire setup with cut-outs for the pedals and keyboard stand. It will keep the pedals from wandering and your setup will be positioned exactly the same way each time you set up. Personally, I use two Boss FS-5U footswitches ganged together (although, they still slide a bit on hard floors). Other people that have played my PS-5X have complained about the footswitches and prefer the traditional pedal style. The solution is simple, though. I just don't let other people play my PS-5X. 😉

There must be a glitch in the Matrix, because I could have sworn Brad responded to this question with an answer that was new to me. But when I came back too comment how useful I found it, the answer was gone. Maybe he needed to edit it or something... ?

Wait... What...? Whoa... 🤯 I thought I pushed the limits of the PX-5S pretty hard, but you just blew my mind. There's some serious potential here! Thanks, Brad!

There are several factors that make it difficult to respond helpfully to this question. Different people look for different characteristics in their preferred piano sound. Different digital piano companies sample different piano brands with different sampling setups and techniques. The Privia itself relies on external gear, like amps and headphones (also with different available brands and specs) to turn that sound into an audible signal. Even after I've found my preferred piano tone, if I'm playing through headphones, I tend to prefer different settings than if I'm playing through speakers. Can you be specific about what you like or don't like about the piano sounds? Personally, I prefer a brighter piano sound. Lately, I've been using the BritePiano preset tone with the high end EQ dialed down a touch. I also find that adding a little Early Reflection DSP gives it more of a "live presence". A little reverb is always helpful to "liven up" the sound, too.

You can absolutely do this: With Zone 1 selected, go to Edit - Stage Setting - Common Edit Go to Pedal 1 - Mode and set it to Momentary. Go to Target Edit - set Target to CC11: express. Set the Min Value to 127 and the Max Value to 0. This should allow the zero expression value to be sent while the pedal is depressed and 127 when released. Go back to Stage Setting - Zone Edit - Controller Edit and make sure Pedal1 Enable is on only for Z1 and off for the rest of the zones. If the on and off are too abrupt, you can lower the value of the On Rate and Off Rate in the Stage Setting - Common Edit - Pedal 1 menu. Good luck!

You can set an NRPN to change stage settings on the PX-5S, but that probably wouldn't be interpreted by the external module as a Program Change. It would still leave the PX-5S as a NRPN message. If you have some kind of filter (like the MIDI Solutions Event Processor), you could easily pull something like this off by assigning an unused CC to the knob and having the filter turn it into a program change. Of course, that's not cheap and it's another piece of gear to have to fiddle with. If you're lucky, your external module already has a filter you can set for incoming messages. Good luck!

Thanks, Choppin! I think that was the secret decoder ring I needed. The first sysex now makes sense, on paper, anyway. I'm going to try sending it later this week. The second one is strange. It claims to be a system parameter, but I haven't found it in the MIDI document tables. I'll have to see if I can get away with not sending it. My grand plan is to send a CC out, through the MIDI Event Processor, convert CC to sysex, and send it back into the PX-5S. Edit: After Choppin mentioned it, I realized I did totally hijack OP's thread. It should have been a different post. Sorry, Gogoriviera! I hope you got your problem resolved!

On a related note, I'm trying to send sysex messages to try to control the patch LFO parameters in real-time. However, I can't quite decipher the implementation manual. I think I'm about 80% there, but I could use an example. I tried to coax the PX to send one through my MIDI monitor so I could try to parse it, but it wouldn't share it's secrets. Do you have a specific example of an function on the PX that will result in sending a sysex?