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pure major and pure minor scales


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Hello,

 

I have the WK-200. It allows me to select preset scales such as Pure Major, Pure Minor.

By default, the scale is "Equal Temperament".

I would like to use "Just Intonation" which is not available in WK-200.

My question is what are Pure Major and Pure Minor?

Are they very close to "Just Intonation"?

 

Thanks.

 

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Check this out:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_intonation

 

In simplest terms, yes these are similar enough in common practice. As I learned years back, just intonation in some respects is more pleasing but to some people specific intervals will sound very out of tune if accustomed to equal temperament music, which most of us are. Singers, brass, woodwind and string players will tend to adjust in "real time"-part of the art of playing in ensemble, and will tend to want to play in "just" intonation, but the keyboard's equal tempered scale will more or less force those players to adjust, depending upon what key signature is chosen. This is also why strings prefer key signatures such as A E G D while the keyboard guys like the keys with alot of flats-just look at any Chopin or Romantic era composer to see what they had to do to get more pleasant sounds out of the new equal temperament pianos! They were trying to stay away from the white key scales on purpose because it clashed so badly with everyone else. This also explains the rise in "contemporary" atonal jazz and classical music in the 20th century. Now it didn't matter whether you were in tune or not. Who would know?  :P Only kidding on that one, but I'm not completely sure it's not true. :huh: 

 

I may be remembering inaccurately but I seem to remember that a brass ensemble will play with just intonation providing they do not have to worry about the piano! Brass instruments in particular tend to sound less "strident" when playing just intervals-but also the reason they need all those tuning slides all over-for when they have to play in equal temperament ensembles. Woodwind and brass can "lip" slightly sharp and flat to be in tune with the piano or other keyboard, but it is always a struggle!

 

Why so much classical accompaniment music consists of single line melodies with piano accompaniment. It isn't as noticeable when a woodwind, string or brass musician is tending to play a melody naturally in just intonation.

And why I constantly have to be careful what I play on the keys when in ensemble with guitars in bands. MY chord and the guitar chord will not sound the same due to slight variations in the intervals making up even a simple triad, especially a simple triad. I can torture guitarists by comping the same chords in rhythmic unison while they are doing it, especially in the same octave! And no matter how accurately they tune their individual strings, it will always be a problem (makes it even more fun). Try it next time yer playing in a band. Gets real interesting especially if yer guitarist had a few beers by the second set (I speak from experience). Maybe this is why I don't get much work anymore, or don't want to. :P :P :P :P

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Thank you for the response.

I am glad to know that "Pure" and "Just" are one and the same thing.

 

Casio provides two "Pure" scales : Pure Major and Pure Minor.

What are the differences?

Specifically I would like to know the frequency ratios used in Pure Major and Pure Minor.

 

Just intonation uses frequency ratios such as 3/2, 5/4 and so on.

Casio has not provided ratios it uses on Pure Major and Pure Minor.

Casio has also not provided the frequency and cents on the middle C key for Pure Major and Pure Minor.

I will really appreciate if I get this information.

 

Thanks.

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Without being able to describe the specific comparative ratios myself (the Wikipedia link is pretty accurate based upon what I already know) the way in which each respective scale is determined will be similar-the differences between just and equal temperament major and just and equal temperament minor should be the same. Not knowing how much you know regarding theory, remember whether in just or equal temperament tuning, each key will not have the same relationships between notes "soundwise" and mathematically with just being more pronounced-it will sound more or less out of tune depending upon key signature and what you are used to hearing. And even though theoretically equal temperament is supposed to provide almost identical relationships between notes in each key signature, it doesn't although it's close enough to fool most musical ears, except the poor souls with "perfect pitch"! 

 

In case you didn't know-the relative minor key signature is always 3 1/2 steps below the major key. C Major and a minor share the same keys as do all the other key signatures. G major has the same keys as e minor etc. I am assuming you know the various key signatures and accompanying scales, chords and arpeggios. and I won't even talk about the "modes"-"I told you not to talk about the modes!" :huh:

 

A little trick I learned from my classical music days. In case you forget your key signatures or to quickly identify-flat keys count from right to left, the second flat from the right is always the key signature. For sharps, the last sharp on the far right is always one half-step below the key signature. I sometimes still need to do this to remember keys with alot of sharps and flats such as B major, Gb major, Bb minor etc. Flats move in the circle of fourths, sharps in the circle of fifths (yes I'm loads of fun at parties!)   :P 

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  • 2 years later...

Hi Vishforcasio, 

 

To play the type of Just Intonation used in Indian music I make two adjustments to the Pure Major in my CTK7300IN. Without getting too pedantic about exact values, a quick and easy way is just to sharpen the minor 2nd and minor 6th by 41 cents. This brings Re komal and Dha komal close to their true values. In key of C with C root those notes are D flat (C#) and A flat (G#).

 

This resultant scale is the exact 12 note-equivalent of the Ptolemaic Intense Diatonic Scale, which of course as the name suggests is a 7-note scale, just like the 7 main swaras. 

 

Of course, you could just play Pure Major straight out of the box but as soon as you go to play any raga with a flattened 2nd or 6th it will sound very out of tune. 

 

Hope that helps, 

Sam 

हरे कृष्ण 

 

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On 1/29/2016 at 4:37 AM, vishforcasio said:

Hello,

 

I have the WK-200. It allows me to select preset scales such as Pure Major, Pure Minor.

By default, the scale is "Equal Temperament".

I would like to use "Just Intonation" which is not available in WK-200.

My question is what are Pure Major and Pure Minor?

Are they very close to "Just Intonation"?

 

Thanks.

 

Hi Vishforcasio, 

 

 I'm not sure what you want JI for but I'll assume it's for Indian classical gandhar or samvadini tuning. Also I'm not familiar with your model so I don't know if you can adjust the cents value of individual notes. 

 

To play the type of Just Intonation used in Indian music I make two adjustments to the Pure Major in my CTK7300IN. Without getting too pedantic about exact values, a quick and easy way is just to sharpen the minor 2nd and minor 6th by 41 cents. This brings Re komal and Dha komal close to their true values. In key of C with C root those notes are D flat (C#) and A flat (G#).

 

 

 

This resultant Indian scale is the exact 12 note-equivalent of the Ptolemaic Intense Diatonic Scale, which of course as the name suggests is a 7-note scale, just like the 7 main swaras. It is not possible to play all 22 srutis without changing the root note. STILL the limitation is only to be able to play 12 srutis at a time. 

 

 

 

Of course, you could just play Pure Major straight out of the box but as soon as you go to play any raga with a flattened 2nd or 6th it will sound very out of tune. 

 

 

 

Hope that helps, 

 

Sam 

 

हरे कृष्ण 

 

 

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