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Casio mini-keyboard controller


Jokeyman123

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I have been scouring the web for a min-key (like the CZ-101) velocity-sensitive keyboard controller, only 2-3 octaves worth and after seeing how few of these there are with real midi din ports (there are a few but mostly with full-size keys) I bet Casio could design one, kind of an updated CZ-101 either as a vleocity sensitive mini-synth (the CZ-101 isn't velocity sensitive I seem to recall) or as a controller, with both USB and midi din ports. I know there are a dozen 25, 32- or 37 key variations already but almost every single one is either USB only, has full-size keys or is is pretty expensive for just a controller. The micro-Korgs run for hundreds of bucks even in the used market, the Arturias have so many knobs and sliders that it would take up my whole desk and the Behringers and the Samsons are almost all USB only or full-size keys. Seems to me if Casio made an affordable one with my specs, there might be a market for it. Again specs would be.....

 

1) 2-3 octaves min-size keys like the micro-Korg synths or the CZ-101 not like the nano

 

2) Both USB and midi din ports, for people like me that still have several midi din modules and don't want to tether to a computer

 

3) Velocity sensitive keys

 

4) At least enough controls to run basic  CC for program, bank and velocity values as well as octave up/down etc.

 

5) Mod and pitch bend wheels

 

Sort of like this (I have one and use it but isn't velocity-sensitive otherwise pretty handy)

 

b6ouxc.jpg

 

or this but with midi usb and midi din out

 

23mwy2d.jpg

 

I've even tried to find a decent midi retrofit kit, but these are fairly complex and not so cheap (I like cheap) and depend upon specific keyboards-the only company that makes a true retrofit midi kit for just about anything is sold out, no wonder!

And the Kenton midi host box cost as much or more than most desktop keyboard controllers. I'm trying to keep the setup to 2 devices, my modules and one small keyboard. Not so easy with these specs. Again, not one of the dozen USB-only ported keyboards, this has to have real midi din ports. No computer, no iPhones, no nothing.

 

 

 

 

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The SA-76 is not velocity sensitive anyway so a retrofit wouldn't help.  Neither are the microkorgs as far as I know.

 

The new Korg Minilogue DOES have velocity sensitive mini keys but it would be heartbreaking to butcher such a sophisticated instrument to use as a simple controller.

 

You might find velocity sensitive keys on the newer boutique lines of synths from Yamaha and Roland but again way too expensive to butcher.

 

What you are asking for is a marketing paradox.

 

Most players DESPISE Mini Keys as being unplayable with any sort of nuance or feeling.  Even I plan to use my Minilogue when it arrives almost exclusively with a weighted, 88 key controller.

 

It would surely be marketing suicide for any major manufacturer to release a 37 minikey controller with anything more than basic functionality because they would never recoup their development and tooling costs.

 

I think you are in search of Ahab's white whale and if you ever are lucky enough to find it it will end up costing you more than it would ever be worth to you.

 

Gary ;)

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AAAArrrgggggghhhh!!!!!!!!! Ye dammit white whale!

 

I am a piano player basically and I understand what you are saying. For simple arrangement construction, basic chord comping, bass lines and drum/rhythm parts I can diddle with a mini-keyboard. Guess I'll stick with my little toy Reveal keyboard. I travel alot, and carrying the smallest of keyboards to hotels, motels etc. is sometimes all I can manage for fleshing out stuff.

 

Still-a re-issue of something like the CZ-101 with velocity sensitivity would probably sell-look at the prices for these used. Apparently there is still at least some demand. If Casio still has the modelling machinery from the CZ series (I don't know if they do) it might not cost much to manufacture a limited quantity, If they can manufacture something like the Korg micro-samplers/arrangers or Microkontrol analog modelling mini keyboards, or even like the Arturia mini or microbrute synths and Alesis mini synths and undercut the price-look at the keyboard market now. i seem to be seeing a trend away from the more expensive large 88-key monsters as more serious players (like me) are realizing they can buy into a very decent Casio pro instrument like the PX5s or any of the Privias at half the price for competitive counterparts.

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Here's a likely suspect that comes up on Amazon

 

http://www.amazon.com/Korg-microKEY-37-Key-Powered-Keyboard/dp/B007VQIGPW

 

It's velocity sensitive with 37 mini keys and pitch and mod wheels and dirt cheap.  The only thing it's missing is true MIDI ports.

 

Or if you can work with 25 keys howabout this one?

 

http://www.amazon.com/ARTURIA-MiniLab-230401-25-Key-Controller/dp/B00COPKOUK

 

Gary ;)

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BTW, if MIDI is a dealbreaker pick up one of these.

 

http://www.lab4music.it/index.php?lang=EN

 

or one of these.

 

http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/utilities/usb-host.shtml

 

Sure they cost more than the controller itself, but they're usable with a wide range of equipment.

 

Gary ;)

 

EDIT >>> And if you really feel cheap here's a DIY set of plans for simple USB MIDI Host using a $20 arduino board.

 

http://cyfrowogitarowo.pl/archiwa/124

 

http://cyfrowogitarowo.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/MIDI-USB-HOST-DIY-tutorial.pdf

 

http://www.hinton-instruments.co.uk/reference/midi/promidi/index.htm

 

:D

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Cairnsfella, that's perfect. I haven't seen this anywhere, but I will look again. This is just what I was looking for.

 

Happyrat-thanks for sending all the links-I checked all those, but no DIN midi ports which is the dealbreaker. And after selling an Oxygen 8 years back, I remember it was rather clumsy. The Arturias are particularly frustrating-beautifully constructed boards but no midi DIN.  And I have been studying the Arduino assemblies. I might attempt that to add midi DIN to my old PX575. I can't justify the 130 price tag on the Kenton for one keyboard. I have a Yamaha QY100 and RM1X both of which are midi DIN only and I have been doing my desktop work with the Reveal for these. I can pack the qy100 and the Reveal in a suitcase or overnighter and travel without too much hassle.

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Now I know why I didn't mention the Keystep, a quick search at Amazon, eBay (I haven't checked the usual music stores yet) I can't find this anywhere except on Arturia's website. But this is exactly what I was looking for. Apparently even has some very cool sequencer and arpeggiator functions, and this ouwd fit nicely in a small spot, just about the same footprint as the Reveal. I'll keep looking.

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Now I know why I didn't mention the Keystep, a quick search at Amazon, eBay (I haven't checked the usual music stores yet) I can't find this anywhere except on Arturia's website. But this is exactly what I was looking for. Apparently even has some very cool sequencer and arpeggiator functions, and this ouwd fit nicely in a small spot, just about the same footprint as the Reveal. I'll keep looking.

 

Ahh.. yes... well.... I couldn't bring you good news like that and spoil it with the lack of availability all in one go could I.

 

To be fair, I actually first found it on the aforementioned  'Sweetwater' site, but did not notice that it was pre-sale, however, I subsequently did notice it was only new.

 

I didnt spent a whole heap of time on this (so there may be other alternatives I didnt see), however it does appear to be closely related to the "beatstep" products, and I have read of quite a few user issues with the step sequencer functionality. However, as this element is merely a 'bonus' for you it otherwise seems to fit what you asked for.

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For serious music-Chopin or Beethoven piano sonatas could be troublesome with minikeys.:o For simple basslines, chords and drums-I tried the Korgs, eek my Reveal has a better action than those. 

 

But then think of the hideous early pianofortes that played like they were made of 2 x 4s (I've had a chance to try the actions in a few colonial museums around here in NJ and NY state that had some of the old pianos/harpsichords-I had to sneak around a bit, they wouldn't let me touch them while the museum people were looking-don't tell anybody those fingerprints were from Jokeyman!) But it is hard to find an 88-key, weighted action keyboard I can fit in my suitcase. Maybe the Chinese will invent one-maybe something like those hideous roll-up rubber keyboards, but with 88-key hammer action-go ahead, I dare them! :banana:

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Casio GZ-5 was unfortunately rather a disappointing joke than real midi keyboard (pitch/modulation wheels only simulate a button press).


http://weltenschule.de/TableHooters/Casio_GZ-5.html

Why does nobody make modern keyboards generally pressure (not velocity) sensitive?!

The ROLI Seaboard is e.g. an interesting tablet-like keyboard successor.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SeaboardR-25

But to me piano-sized keys feel rather clumsy and not ergonomic at all. (How shall I reach multiple octaves with one hand?!). I never heard a button accordion player complaining that the bass buttons were too small, nor did secretaries complain about typewriters.) Something like the Bandstand or MusicFairy toy keyboards (with 61 Casio SA-1 sized mini keys) would feel more plausible to me.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Elektronisches-Kinder-61-Tasten-Keyboard-Kinderkeyboard-Klavier-Mikrofon-Piano/361430271184

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kinder-Piano-Keyboard-MQ-012FM-Klavier-Musikinstrument-61-Tasten-NEU-OVP-/201492983555

Perhaps the keys should have more depth or different spring tension than such toys (those even fail to sense polyphonic key presses by omitted matrix diodes), but piano size keys should be left for reproducing classic piano musics. Even the clavichord where composers like Bach or Mozart practised on had no "fullsize" keys, and many medieval church organs were more like a PortaSound or MicroKorg. The only thing with large (broom-stick-like) keys was the carillon; everything else was by modern terms rather midsize.


 

CT1088_(3)_0001.jpg

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  • 8 years later...
On 3/1/2016 at 7:27 AM, CYBERYOGI =CO=Windler said:

Casio GZ-5 was unfortunately rather a disappointing joke than real midi keyboard (pitch/modulation wheels only simulate a button press).


http://weltenschule.de/TableHooters/Casio_GZ-5.html

Why does nobody make modern keyboards generally pressure (not velocity) sensitive?!

The ROLI Seaboard is e.g. an interesting tablet-like keyboard successor.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SeaboardR-25

But to me piano-sized keys feel rather clumsy and not ergonomic at all. (How shall I reach multiple octaves with one hand?!). I never heard a button accordion player complaining that the bass buttons were too small, nor did secretaries complain about typewriters.) Something like the Bandstand or MusicFairy toy keyboards (with 61 Casio SA-1 sized mini keys) would feel more plausible to me.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Elektronisches-Kinder-61-Tasten-Keyboard-Kinderkeyboard-Klavier-Mikrofon-Piano/361430271184

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Kinder-Piano-Keyboard-MQ-012FM-Klavier-Musikinstrument-61-Tasten-NEU-OVP-/201492983555

Perhaps the keys should have more depth or different spring tension than such toys (those even fail to sense polyphonic key presses by omitted matrix diodes), but piano size keys should be left for reproducing classic piano musics. Even the clavichord where composers like Bach or Mozart practised on had no "fullsize" keys, and many medieval church organs were more like a PortaSound or MicroKorg. The only thing with large (broom-stick-like) keys was the carillon; everything else was by modern terms rather midsize.


 

CT1088_(3)_0001.jpg

Exploring accordions with smaller keys or alternative layouts could offer a more comfortable playing experience. Models like diatonic or chromatic button accordions might suit your preferences better.

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