Casio WK3800

[One man Band]

Since my last post I have looked back at some of the comments on the 3800 and 7600 especially in the drum area. Several comments are that the 3800 rythyms are sorely missed which kinda verifies my own thinking. I am now thinking of keeping the 3800 (see my post yesterday) but can anybody tell me how to get more memory.? I am not computer literate and at the moment I can store 32 (4x8) different instrument/drum beats/drum speed/etc but I need more. I want to be able to dial up say 3 digits and bring up the settings for about 300 songs. At the moment I am wasting time between tunes when I play professionally having to firstly dial up say Bank 2 and then the registration number. This is OK, but usually I have to re-adjust something such as the rythym speed and it wastes time, plus sometimes I forget something. Experts in the area I live doubt whether I can get more memory - one is scared of losing the settings I already have, so is reluctant to try. One of the biggest problems with the 3800 is the lack of natural sustain on Piano  making it hard to play. To get over this I always use Piano with synthetic strings (and E/P the same) that you barely only notice at the end as they are at less volume than the 7600 ( that I wouldn't use.) This helps to compensate for the lack of sustain.Even with the sustain pedal, it doesn't "hang on" as much as I would like. Regardless, I have noticed there are very few 3800's for sale second hand - I wonder why??  Maybe its a good keyboard as I always thought it was. I purchased it initially for the Breathy Sax sound that I thought was quite amazing compared to other boards, I thought I would stick it on top of my Hammond. Now I am gigging with this keyboard for the last 4 years and a few colleagues think its a bit of a joke and I should be playing a Nord or something.!!  Quite frankly I accept the Piano and E/P are a little better on those more expensive boards, but they don't having decent drum sounds and other features such as being able to press one button which produces a drum fill before going onto a more complex rythym that incidentally the 7600 apparently can't do.? Is my age the problem ? (65) I have modified the 3800 with a remote footswitch for the Leslie plus another footswitch to bend notes 1/2 a semi tone (for Shadows music etc) and installed a device to the side of the keyboard so I don't have to cart around a mike stand. Didn't mean to get so involved but got carried away. Any comments please?

[- T -]

OMB

 

Sorry to be so long in responding, but I had to wait until I could retrieve my WK-3800 from loan (My sis !) to check out several items before responding.  First, the memory.  When you ask "Can the WK-3800 Registration memory be increased?" the ultimate answer is "Yes !  Anything with enough money and all the right parts and enough knowledge and determination and skill is possible, but is it practical ?"  In this case - NO.  Memory in keyboards like the WK-3800 is not mounted on plug-in boards, like in a computer.  The memory chips are typically hard soldered to the main circuit board, making replacement extremely difficult and risky.  Even if you could find the correct chips with larger storage capacity and someone to replace them, the operating system (firmware) would have to be upgraded to address the additional memory, and the WK-3800's firmware is not upgradeable.  As for your colleagues' suggestions, Nords, Motifs, MO's, Fantoms, Jupiters, FA's, Krosses, Kromes, etc. are all very fine stage and studio units, but they are not arrangers.  They are not "one man banders".  They have no onboard full auto-accompaniment features.  If you need that, then they would not suit your needs.  Yamaha, Korg, and Ketron, to name the main contenders, have MOTL and TOTL units with the sophisticated registration systems you seek, that can be foot pedal or even computer/tablet controlled, but these units go for between $1500 and $6000.

 

Now, as for the WK-7600.  While its registration memory has been vastly expanded over that of the WK-3800 to 16 banks of 6 for a total of 96, the method of accessing them is essentially identical to that of the WK-3800, so upgrading for that reason would increase your memory three-fold, but would not resolve your access problems.  Much has been said (and written) about the sound differences between the WK-3XXX units and the newer boards.  The bulk of this is attributable to the fact that the WK-3XXX sound systems (the power amplifiers and speakers) were designed along the lines of those of "boom boxes" that were popular at the time, and results in those big boomy bass sounds, while the sound systems of the newer CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX boards are designed to provide the more precise sounds of studio close-field monitors, but external amps and speakers can be chosen to provide sound with a particular character.  This aside, for most owners, the WK-3800 has some favorite tones, and rhythms, and features that were not carried over into the newer units, so I would recommend against an outright swap, regardless of the replacement unit.  It would be wise to hang on to the WK-3800 for a while until workarounds can be found for those items which were lost in the replacement.

 

[One man Band]

Thank you for very informative reply.  Re memory, I was hoping I could plug in a floppy disc (or  an SD card?) to get more memory - seems this is not going to work.?

I believe there are better EP sounds and improved piano sustain (especially higher up the keyboard) than the 3800 can offer and I have been advised to try a Korg Krome and if I want to do drum fills followed by a pattern change, I could do this on a backing track - just means I would have to stick to the same arrangement every time.  While I get satisfaction out of not using backing tracks and probably would not want to play otherwise, I guess I can go with this idea as the drums are automated at the moment anyway. For other songs where I don't need fills and pattern changes, apparently the Krome will do this.? (Has it got auto start when you hit the first bass note?)

What do you think.?  Re the 7600, I tried to fatten up the sound by applying more Bass on the external amp, but this didn't seem to work as I had hoped, as the Bass notes

(on Split) were too heavy.!!) Note that I only use guitar style bass patterns on split. Pity the 7600 is not going to solve my problems and I love the size, weight and feel of the keyboard

Look forward to your thoughts.

[- T -]

OMB

 

Looks like we have several items to discuss, but before we get into that, I need to satisfy my curiosity.  Your most recent reply leads me to believe that you have some kind of access to a WK-7600.  Have you already purchased one, or are you trying one out ?  In either case, were you aware that the WK-7600 has a global EQ for adjusting the overall frequency response ?  If not, you may want to try tweaking the bass response from there.  My WK-7500 is not blessed with that feature, so I can not try it out from here.  I use an old Realistic (Radio Shack) 10 band stereo equalizer with it into a Technics 100 watt stereo amp with a Sony 6 inch 3-way speaker system.  That gets the job done for me most of the time, but it's still not quite the same as the WK-3800.

 

So, on with the show !  YES !  The WK-3800 can load registrations from either an SD Card (1 Gb max) or a 3 1/2 inch diskette.  This would solve your memory problem, because it essentially makes your registration storage limitless, but there is still a show stopper drawback.  No keyboard can "use" registrations directly from external storage.  They must first be loaded into internal User Memory, and then accessed from there in the normal manner.  The WK-3800 can only save/load one bank of 4 at a time.  Saving is no problem, as you would do that at your leisure, but loading during a live performance is another matter entirely.  Loading one bank of 4 into internal memory takes at least 10 button presses plus one or two more to "select" it after it is loaded.  The data transfer alone requires roughly 8 seconds, but the entire process takes around 30 to 45 seconds, if you are really nimble at pressing the buttons and do not make a mistake in the process.  It would be nice if the WK-3800 offered the option of loading one bank or a complete set of 8 banks at a time.  That way, you could pre-load the first set of 8 banks, use those, then start loading the next set of 8 banks as you go on break, but now we may be seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.  The WK-7600 will not save/load single banks at a time.  It gets all 16 banks of 6 (96 total Regs) in one fell swoop.  I think that might be do-able for you.  Still not something you would want to try between songs, but you could schedule load times to coincide with breaks.  Start the load and go on break, and you have 96 new registrations when you return from break.  The trade-off here is that you loose the ability to name individual banks (eg. with song names) as you can on the WK-3800. You can only name the entire 16 bank set, so you would need to keep a good set of notes, but this is really nothing new for most of us.  Now, if you could resolve the "sound" issue, you might be able to give the WK-7600 some serious consideration.

 

Best of  luck with this !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

[Jokeyman123]

Sorry I can't help, Ted has covered all the info regarding your questions, but I am curious as to how you managed the Leslie switching and pitch bend via pedal. I have a PX-575 which is technically almost identical to the WK-3800 but with piano keys, and being able to switch the Leslie fast/slow or on/off remotely would be very handy as would pitch bend rather than going through the menus to accomplish this. I have done many mods (some of which you can read about here), have enough expertise. And seconding Ted's assertion of upping internal memory. I have never found any easily swappable internal chips in the Casios (and many others nowadays). All are hard-wired and tied to the operating system and master CPU, just as a computer needs a stepped-up CPU to address additional memory slots.

[One man Band]

Thanks for confirming memory problems on 3800. I am today going to try out the Korg Krome and although I'm told it is not a One Man Band keyboard, friends say I can use it and in order to have drum flexibility I can use drum backing tracks to get fills and pattern changes if I really want them in a tune. I guess this is no worse than what I am doing now - it just means I will have to stick to a pattern. I'm sure the Piano and E/P are better than the 3800 ( more hang on in Piano) and the Organ will be as good if not better. To answer your questions re the Leslie remote foot switch and another  footswitch to bend notes (downwards about 1/2 a semitone) all you need to do is to run a resistor (in both cases) across the potentiometer that the 2 wheels are attached to on the L/H side of the keyboard. and merely switch the resistors on or off across one side of the moving arm, to the moving arm itself. You will need to experiment with the values (start by looking at the resistance of the pot. itself) and go from there. I could pull my keyboard to bits and tell you the exact values but there are dozens of screws to undo so am a bit reluctant. Install 2 guitar sockets right by the 2 wheels and I suggest soldering the resistors to the socket and running the 2 twin cables back to the pots. Just use a normal footswitch to switch the resistors on and off. The Leslie footswitch needs to be held down when using Fast ( which incidently should be around 6 revs per sec) but if you didn't want to keep pressure on the footswitch in fast mode, you could change the microswitch in the pedal to  get one press On, another press Off. (Slow speed should be 1 rev per sec). My 3800 needed adjusting speedwise when I got it. I used to make Tone cabinets similar to "Leslie"

Will keep everybody advised on what happens today.

[One man Band]

I'm addressing this to Tnicoson and Jockeyman 123.  Firstly I got the 7600 on loan for a week and returned it the other day. I will do more investigating into the EQ on the 7600 to try to bring out the bottom end and give the tones more body, however I still do not feel the drums are as realistic as the 3800 and the 7600 won't do a one button hit to do a fill and subsequent pattern change. As regards the trial I did today on the Korg Krome I have this to say;

Krome has slightly better  piano sustain (hang on) plus slightly better E/P. However, Drawbars on the organ are not adjustable and none of the organ sounds are ones that I usually use. On my Hammond (sitting out in the shed) I used to only use the first 3 - 4  drawbars  to get the characteristic screaming Hammond sound of yesteryear and I can do this in the same way with the 3800 including 2 2/3rd's or 4 ft percussion including length and volume (I think from memory - correct me if I am wrong) The Leslie in the Krome is similar to the 3800 however. ( Note that the more expensive Kronos has a better Leslie in that it copies the sound of the top rotor slowing and starting up quickly cause its lighter and the slower stopping and starting of the bass rotor that is a lot bigger and heavier, which is very impressive)

The Kromes drums I still don't feel are as realistic as the 3800 - probably similar to the 7600. Also the Krome will not do a drum fill and pattern change on the fly which you are aware I have on the 3800 and use all the time. The Sax sound on the Krome, for me anyway, is not as good as the 3800 "Breathy sax" (254) that I use all the time when playing swing instrumentals. Whilst on that sound, I find I cannot use sax on the 3800 unless it is a swing feel, because it is a little too jerky. I can tone this down by pressing "Synth" and moving "Attack time" to 20. Unfortunately it seems I can't save this to a preset as the instructions say. I wish I could?? Anybody know?

Moving onto Brass and I use 226 Mellow Trombone a lot on the 3800 and couldn't find anything as Fat on the Krome although some of the other brass sounds were impressive but a little bit thin and not enough body to be able to be used in a situation on their own . i.e. (Guitar Bass on with Drums)  Guitar sounds were similar to the 3800.

Weight on the Krome is similar to the 3800 but size on the Krome was slightly narrower.

So what will I do.?

Due to the fact that I can't do drum fills and pattern changes on the fly with the Krome without programming, the Hammond sound doesn't suit me on the Krome, I don't think the drums are as good on the Krome, nor is the Sax and Trombone, I feel I will stick with the 3800 even thought the Piano and E/P are slightly better on the Krome, as is the size. I will pass on Tnicosons comments to my expert about increasing memory on the 3800, but may try again with the 7600 in order to get more bottom end.

I must say however that if I were younger, I would probably buy the Korg Kronos but it is a bit impractical at over 20KG's. The sounds I think are better in all areas even though they make the comment that sounds are taken from the Kronos and into the Krome. Am I imagining this?

Thanks for all your comments - keen to keep up the dialogue to get your thoughts.

 

[- T -]

OMB

 

I am truly surprised, and I was 100% wrong.  I had assumed that you would probably like most, or all, of the Krome's sounds better than either the WK-3800's or the WK-7600's, and that if there was anything about the Krome that you did not like, it would be the fact that it is not an arranger with full accompaniment - and you didn't even mention anything about that.  So, you have come "home", in a sense, and once again, we have several items to discuss.

 

First, regarding drum fills, the drum fills on the WK-7600 are built into the rhythm pattern (NORMAL/VARIATION) buttons, which operate pretty much the same as the VARIATION/FILL-IN buttons on the WK-3800.  If the NORMAL pattern is playing, and you press the NORMAL button, you get a fill, and the rhythm resumes with the NORMAL pattern.  If the VARIATION pattern is playing and you press the VARIATION button, you get a different fill, and the rhythm resumes with the VARIATION pattern.  If the NORMAL pattern is playing and you press the VARIATION button, the rhythm changes to the VARIATION pattern with no fill, but if you press the NORMAL button to get a fill and then the VARIATION button at the end of that fill, you get a fill and the pattern changes to VARIATION.  It works the same when switching from VARIATION to NORMAL - press the VARIATION button to get a fill, then press the NORMAL button at the end of that fill.  I agree, this part is simpler with the FILL-IN/NEXT button on the WK-3800.  I just needed to let you know there is a way around it, it just requires an extra well-timed button press.

 

Second, the carry-over string vibrations on the piano tones on either the WK-3800 or the WK-7600 can be simulated by increasing the "release" times a bit, but not so much that it sounds like the sustain pedal is being pressed.  You can even add a little reverb, if you like (unless reverb is already being applied to simulate a large hall), to emulate sound board resonance, and then save the result as a User Tone.

 

Third, saving User Tones on the WK-3800.  Yes !  It is possible.  I currently have your Number 254 Breathy Sax with an extended attack time of 20 saved in User Tone slot 798 on my WK-3800.  Select your Number 254 Breathy Sax and use the SYNTH mode to edit the attack time, just as you have been.  When you are finished, press the CURSOR DOWN button TWICE.  The display will show User Tone 700 flashing, followed by the Breathy Sax tone name.  Use the plus/minus ( + / - ) buttons on the keypad to select the User Tone location where you want to store it, then press the CURSOR DOWN button again (ONCE only this time), and the display will show Replace ?.  Press the plus (YES) button on the keypad, and the display will show Complete.  You have to use caution when selecting locations for storing new User Tones, so that you do not overwrite something that you want to keep.  Once you get to this stage of the process, the display will continue to show the preset name (or new name, if you renamed it) of the tone that you just edited as you scroll through the User Tone location numbers.  It will not show the name of what is already stored in any User Tone location.  So you have to check your intended User Tone location ahead of time in order to know if it is safe to store a new User Tone there.

 

Go see if you can borrow that WK-7600 again for a few more days, and in the meantime, keep enjoying that WK-3800.

 

Good luck !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

 

 

[One man Band]

Hi Ted,

Thanks for your post.  Firstly I have already tried increasing the release time to get more sustain. I understand what you mean but it still does not do the job properly. Even with the sustain pedal pressed down, the length of the tone disappears very quickly especially when you get higher on the keyboard. Its like the sustain pedal is doing absolutely nothing, that's why I try to keep low down on the keyboard when I'm playing.

As regards the 7600 and trying to do a fill followed by a variation change, as you say you can very quickly hit 2 buttons to do the job, but I haven't got time to do that - if I was younger I might be able to, but playing the guitar bass line forbids me from getting complicated.

Very interested to know how to store attack. When I usually store tones, I firstly get the tone up that I want to store ie, Piano, E/P Sax etc etc, then I press and hold the "Store" button while pressing the bank number that I want it in. This works fine but this method will not allow me to store "Attack". I can make the adjustment OK but when I go onto another bank for a different tone, and then revert to my stored Sax tone, Attack has reverted to "0". I'm sure I read in the handbook that attack could not be stored, but looking thru the book again I can't find the page where this was on.??

I don't know anything about doing the job your way - seeing numbers like 700 and scrolling thru on the + -  buttons are totally foreign to me. When I normally set up to play a song, I firstly select the number that applies to the song I've stored.  i.e it might be  3/8 which means 3 of the 8 registrations available and 8 which is 8 of the 8 banks (or is it the other way around)  The setup shows up - the instrument, the bass, the drums and sometimes transpose. Often I have to alter the drum speed because 32 stored sounds is insufficient, hence me wanting more storage. I wouldn't have to ever alter the drum speed if I had say another 20 storage available. So you can see why I stuff around inbetween tunes. I should only ever need to press 2 buttons and away I go.

Could you kindly explain how to do it your way - I got lost when you said "to select the user tone location where you want to store it"  I have never renamed a user tone, or used user tone location numbers.

Finally re the Krome, as I said the Piano and E/P are a little better, but the  real Hammond sound (ist 3-4 drawbars) was not available and as I used to be an organ player in Bands I couldn't live with the Krome.

Kevin

[- T -]

Kevin

 

The Registrations that you save with the STORE button are for saving global type setups such as tone selection, rhythm selection, tone volume, accompaniment volume, octave offset, etc, but once you go inside a Tone and start adjusting its tonal parameters, such as attack time, release time, etc, you can not save those edits directly to a Registration with the STORE button, as you have already discovered.  You have to save that edited Tone as a User Tone, which is an entirely different process to an entirely separate section of memory than a Registration.  Saving an edited Tone to a User Tone is the process I described in my previous reply.  Printed above the display on the WK-3800 is the Tone List.  Look at the far right end of that list, and you will see that Tones 700 through 799 are for User Tones.  That is the area of memory that I am talking about.  You have 100 memory slots for storing your own self-created or modified tones, and you call them up with the keypad the same way you do a preset Tone.  So lets go over saving your modified Breathy Sax to a User Tone again:

 

Select your Number 254 Breathy Sax and use the SYNTH mode to edit the attack time, just as you have been.

 

When you have increased the Attack Time to 20, you are ready to "save" it.  So - -

 

Press the CURSOR DOWN button TWICE.

 

The display will show User Tone 700 flashing, followed by the Breathy Sax tone name.

 

Press the plus ( + ) button on the keypad ONCE to increase the memory slot from 700 to 701.

 

Press the CURSOR DOWN button ONCE, and the display will show Replace ?

 

(It is asking you if you want to replace whatever is currently stored in 701 with your newly edited Breathy Sax.)

 

Press the plus (YES) button on the keypad, and the display will show Complete.

 

Your modified Breathy Sax is now stored in User Tone location 701.  You can call it up by entering 701 on the keypad, or you can now STORE it as part of a Registration and bring it up along with other settings.  I chose location 701, because Casio has a really nice Salon Piano stored in 700 and a half way decent Brite Piano stored in 702, but a really crummy tinny sounding Modern Piano stored in 701 that you just overwrote with your modified Breathy Sax.  If, at some point in the future, you want to re-modify it to an attack time of say 25, use this same procedure and save it back to 701, and any Registrations that had the modified Breathy Sax will now call up your re-modified breathy sax, or you can save the remodified Breathy Sax to a different location and call up one or the other with different Registrations.  I think this may increase your performance flexibility considerably.  If you should happen to really get into this, I suggest grouping your User Tones together by instrument, just like the Presets are - keep the pianos together, the EP's together, the basses together, etc, etc etc.  It's a lot easier on the memory that way - uhh - that's YOUR memory - not the keyboard's.

 

Ted

[Jokeyman123]

Thanks One Man Band for the info about the switches, so simple it never occurred to me. And thanks Ted about the additional pianos-I missed this-I assumed the tones from 700 up were just duplicates of the other tones, like many keyboards are. Some of the most obvious things.....And yes One Man Band, no worry about taking apart your instrument for me! The PX575 is the same-unlike the PX350-almost every screw in the PX575 must be taken out to get this apart-I know I tried and still couldn't do it-it is stuck together pretty tightly, as must be the WK3800.

 

As far as tones in the WK3800 (the PX575 I believe is identical re it's tones and sample-based sounds) comparing to several of my more "serious" workstations, the sounds on this hold up very well, especially organs. I've also played B and C-3s years back with various Leslie cabinets. as you can see, there is no real cure for some lack of sustain except what Ted has already detailed for pianos-but EQ through a sound system to my ears makes up for deficiencies in high frequencies when playing live. I don't know that I can get that much more sparkle with some of my more "advanced" instruments without EQ.  I recall that the early tine pianos (Wurlitzers and Rhodes) weren't so great at this either-actually pretty muddy sounding by today's standards! And the Leslies even with the high frequency drivers needed some EQ but can be piercing but because of the power they pushed through-their inherent "thick" sound is what made these so nice for filling in-those hi-frequency horns were very full sounding-this is what I miss in many of today's keyboard simulations, so IMO the Casio organs aren;t so terrible at all when I compare to my other keys. If I were doing this all over again, I'd put my Casio through a small keyboard amp/speaker and mike it to a Leslie but now we're getting a little crazy and off topic, sorry!

[- T -]

Johnathon

 

Back in the days when the 3800 was king of the WK line, and this forum wasn't even a twinkle in Mike Martin's eyes, the old Yahoo Casio forum was all abuzz with guys who were out gigging several nights a week with their 3800's piped thru Ventilators.  That is all they wanted it for.  It was the number one affordable B3 emulator of the time.  I had completely forgotten that, but your post above brought it back to mind.  Thanks !  I used to enjoy eaves dropping on their chats about their trials and tribulations and exploits.  One guy used to tote his 3800, Vent, speaker-amp, and small car battery with a DC to AC inverter on the train in to Grand Central every day to busk in the walkways during rush hour.  That's how he made his living - and the 3800 helped him do it.

 

Ted

 

[One man Band]

To reply to Teds 2 posts and Jockeyman. Firstly Ted. I managed to set up the User tone (701) as you suggested and then, saved it to my usual registration- Bank one, number three.

This was all good but when I pressed Split (in order to add in my guitar Bass (133)) then pressed Store and "three",  I checked to see if the "attack was still showing 20. Unfortunately the "attack 20" had reverted back to zero? Can you explain how to overcome this.?

Is it because I cannot save  Sax, Bass, Drums, Drum speed under a user tone?, but just the tone itself (sax in this case). If I could then I would have 100 set ups all ready to go just by pressing 3 digits on the keypad. This would help to solve my problems re storage.

Secondly, what is Ventilators?  Does this mean a ventilated bass reflex cabinet.?  Also what is EQ? Is this referring to the tone controls on my amplifiers. To let you know, I use a Peavey KB2 and if I am playing in a bigger venue I use 2 coupled together. Thirdly I compared a user tone 733 to 033 and it was exactly the same?  I understood 700 - 800 were different tones.?

And now to Jokeyman, the 3800 will come apart - have you heard of American screwdriver? - keep perservering. I played with a band 2 years ago for a one off show and had my Hammond plus the Casio. I used the Casio thru the Leslie cabinet because it had transpose and I couldn't be bothered playing Booker T and the MG's "Hang em High" with 3 chord changes - No one could tell the difference including myself.!!

With EP on the 3800 I use (036) EP1 with Synth strings or (033) Tremolo EP but they are a bit flutey and I want to add a bit more growl if I can use that word. I wonder if I can layer with Piano very softly to do this? I have experimented with Tone settings on my amp as I think you have mentioned and have the Treble set at about 75%  but also the Bass at 75% in order to get adequate Bass volume.

Comments please.

Kevin

[- T -]

Kevin

 

You've been busy, I see.  OK !  From the top:

 

Quote

Is it because I cannot save  Sax, Bass, Drums, Drum speed under a user tone?, but just the tone itself (sax in this case).

Exactly !  Registrations save multiple set up items, but User Tones save just a single tone.

 

Quote

Unfortunately the "attack 20" had reverted back to zero?

I suspect that you did not really save your new Breathy Sax Tone #701 into your (1 - 3) Registration, and that your (1 - 3) Registration is still calling up the original Tone #254.  To check this, power on the keyboard, and without touching anything else, enter 701 on the keypad to call up your modified tone.  Use the SYNTH mode to check the Attack Time.  If it is 20, then you saved your new tone correctly, it just has not been incorporated into your (1 - 3) Registration properly.  If it is not 20, then your edit did not get saved as a new User Tone.  We need to know which, so we know which operation to correct.

 

Quote

Also what is EQ? Is this referring to the tone controls on my amplifiers

YES !  EQ stands for equalizer or equalization and adjusts the bass/treble mix or your sound output, but a proper EQ has at least three controls - bass-mid-treble, while a 10 band EQ has adjustments at 10 different points across the 20-20,000 Hz frequency band.

 

Quote

Secondly, what is Ventilators?

Ventilator (capitalized) is the commercial name of a Leslie simulator pedal manufactured by Neo Instruments, Inc.  They're a bit pricey.  The latest model (Ventilator II) is selling for around $500 new:

 

http://www.neo-instruments.de/en

 

Ted

 

 

[- T -]

Posted in error.  Please remove !

[One man Band]

Hi Ted,

Thanks for advice on user tones capability and EQ. Ventilators shocked me. Why would anybody want to hook up a Leslie simulator.?

Re attack, I did what you said and it worked but now I have lost reverb on sax?

Kevin

[Jokeyman123]

American screwdriver-I have every screwdriver there is, including "security" bit sets, extended length specifically for buried screws, clamping screwdrivers with the claws for gripping, plastic ones, magnetic ones, ratcheting ones. Huge and tiny-from automotive to jeweler's so small I can't see if it's a flatty or hex or Philips without a magnifying headset! I still decided (for now) against dissecting the PX575-and I've even dissected old Kurzweils, Fatars and Ensoniqs to rebuild keybeds-look at what I did to the PX350 (my posts are here)-sigh, I guess I'm just kind of worn out-for now! I still have to tear apart an old MR-76 Ensoniq (again) because some of the keys are still to "clacky" despite rebuilding most of the rest of it. And it weighs a ton. I have redone all the felt on the PX575 and it feels much better. For some reason, even with every screw removed from the PX575, it still seemed to be sticking together somehow-and I was afraid if I forced it apart without knwing what the internal structure looked like-I might break something important-I guess I need to add an X-ray machine to my repair arsenal!      .

[One man Band]

Hi Ted,

Loosing the reverb only happened once. Don't know why. However I have know worked out I loose attack 20 when I move it to registration, I loose it when I put the 133 Bass tone in which I do last. Attack 20 is in registration OK,but as soon as I add 133 Bass (for my split) attack 20 disappears. I always put Bass in last because if I don't, I have to press split all the time. This way its ready to go. So when you look at all my registrations (all 32) you will see Fingr Bs 133 on the display. I have done it this way for the last 5 years.

Help!!

[- T -]

Hi Kevin

 

OK !  I got your latest reply.  I am glad to hear that your reverb problem went away.  I have been working on it for the last couple of hours and was not able to replicate it, so I will start working on your Attack Time problem.  I am going to try to set up the same Registration you have, but I need to back up my Registrations to my computer first, so that I don't lose any of them.  Will be back in a few hours.

 

Ted

 

[- T -]

AHA !   Kevin

 

I think I know what is going on, and if it's what I think it is, their really is no problem.  You're just not seeing what you think you are:

 

Look at the bottom of the display screen, and you will see numbers 1 thru 16.  Those are 16 tone channels that the keyboard uses during a performance.  Each channel has its own function or purpose.  You or the keyboard can assign different tones to different channels, but the function or purpose of each channel is fixed and can not be changed.  For your purposes, we are only interested in channels 1 thru 4.  Channel 1 holds the tone for your main right hand playing and, is termed UPPER-1.  Channel 2 holds the LAYERED tone for right hand playing, and is termed UPPER-2.  Channel 3 holds the SPLIT tone for left hand playing and is termed LOWER-1.  Channel 4 holds the LAYERED SPLIT tone for left hand play, and is termed LOWER-2.  When you press the SYNTH button to go into TONE EDIT mode, whatever tone is showing on the screen is the tone you will be seeing/editing.  If 133 FingrBs3 is showing on the screen when you press the SYNTH button, then those are the tone parameters you will see when you are in EDIT mode. Also, while in EDIT mode, the channel hash mark at the bottom of the screen will flash to indicate the currently selected channel/tone.  For instance, if your press the SYNTH button and the Channel 3 hash mark is flashing, you are seeing/editing the LOWER-1 tone.  In your case, that would be your 133 FingrBs3.  In order to see/edit the UPPER-1 tone, in your case the 701 BrtyTSax tone, you would need to have that showing on the screen before pressing the SYNTH button.  You make your selections by using the CURSOR LEFT and CURSOR RIGHT buttons BEFORE pressing the SYNTH button.  You can not switch channels/tones while you are in SYNTH EDIT mode, so if you make the wrong choice, you have to back out of edit mode with the EXIT button and then make a different choice with the CURSOR buttons.  The last item added to a Registration will always be the item shown on the screen when the Registration is called up.  In your case, that would be the 133 FingrBs3.  If you press the SYNTH button at that time, you would be looking at the FingrBs3 tone, not the 701 BrtyTSax tone, so you would see an Attack Time of 00.  Call up your 1-3 Registration.  If FingrBs3 is showing on the screen, and the Channel 3 hash mark is flashing at the bottom of the screen, press the CURSOR LEFT button TWICE.  The 701 BrtyTSax should be showing, and the Channel 1 hash mark should be flashing.  Now, press the SYNTH button, and you should see an Attack Time of 20.

 

The SYNTH EDIT parameters are on a tone-by-tone basis.  They are not global to the Registration.  Registrations are not tones.  They are collections of tones and keyboard set up parameters plus a rhythm pattern that the keyboard needs, or might need, for a particular performance.  So each Registration would have 16 different sets of tone parameters, whether you are using only one tone or all sixteen.  Even if you only assign an UPPER-1 tone to a Registration, default tones will be assigned to UPPER-2, LOWER-1, and LOWER-2, whether you use them or not.  Default tones will be assigned to each of the auto-accompaniment channels and a default Rhythm will be assigned, even if you are not using auto-accompaniment.  Every Registration contains everything the keyboard needs for a full performance.  They do not contain just the items assigned by the user.

 

I hope this does it for you on this one !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

[One man Band]

Thanks Ted.

I guess I should go through the process exactly to make it easier to understand.

1/ Find the tone I want, lets say 254 Breathy Sax - Press Store and hold while I select the bank & registration  (say Bank 1 registration 3). 254 has now been saved to 1-3.

 

2/ Establish the drum beat and roughly the speed, move this to the same registration (1-3) Usually I have to finely adjust the drum speed (its Global - is that the word?) because I don't have enough storage for all the different drum beats I use.

 

3/ Bring up Fingr Bs 133 and store in 1-3.

So when you look at the screen you only see Fingr Bs 133 at all times. ( Fingr Bs 133 is the only Bass sound I use.) This way I don't have to press "Split".

 

I have done this for all 32 available to be stored and it is made up of say  2 E/P's c/w drums and Bass on split, ( 1 is 033 trem. EP, the other is 36 ) 10 Piano c/w different drum beats & Bass (always use 009 with Syn strings as a pad cause Casio doesn't on)12  226  Trombone(seems a lot doesn't it but I use it quite a lot on instrumental songs)  2 guitar,  1 Accordian., 1 Flute, 1 user Hammond sound, 1 Church Organ  (that sound is quite magnificent) 1 Chapel organ.

 

Just looking at the ones I've got stored I think I will do away with storing Accordian, Flute, and the 2 Church organ sounds as I hardly ever use them and can bring them up manually if need be, as theres no rush. (people won't be dancing)  I will apply them to more E/P  & Piano with more drum beats than already stored.

See how you go.

Kevin

[One man Band]

I did what you said and it worked OK. I now realise that initially when I pressed synth to see if the attack was at 20, I should have pressed the split button first, to get back to 701 (sax) . What I was looking at was Fingr Bas 133 and of course the attack would be at zero. (Silly me - wish I was younger) To check, I brought up 254 Sax and listened to it, I then brought up 1-3 (sax with 20 attack and definetly noticed the difference.

I have done this many times - tried to alter parameters without firstly pressing Split to get back to the main  instrument I'm trying to adjust.

Now that we've got that out the way, how are we going to get better EP sounds and more sustain on Piano?. I can squeeze a little bit more Growl (Nord/Wurlitzer) out of my basic EP sound by  putting the cut off Freq. to 63 and reasonance to 45. But despite everything you have to play low down on the keyboard - too high and too cheesy I'm afraid. Often I'll use transpose to get down on the keyboard and to suit my vocal range. Sometimes my musical friends hear the synth strings at the end of my piano sound and blame it on the Piano sound which actually I think is OK.

And now to Jokeyman, American screwdriver is a slang term for using a hammer to belt in a screw rather than using a proper screwdriver. Are you absolutely sure you have undone all the screws on the 3800?. Some of the screws look as though they are not to be undone when in fact they are. Hey Guys - I really want to keep the 3800 for the drum flexibility and sounds, Hammond sounds, size, weight etc but can I perhaps "Import" some EP and Piano sounds out of another Keyboard into my Casio.? Incidently I am that embarrassed about playing one I put a "Shure" mic sticker over the label as some of my friends "Hate" me using a Casio.