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It makes it pointless to use headphones (Privia).


sslyutov

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The keyboard mechanics noise level is very high. (It is an issue on Privia, and CDP line)
It makes it pointless to use headphones, since the disturbance from mechanical noise is much higher than from playing music.

Do you support such opinion?
How do you fight the problem? ( Any recommendations for quieter brand/model are welcome )

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I do not support such opinion. I don't notice the noise when using headphones or during normal playing through speakers. Only time I notice the action noise is when I am paying at a very low volume.   I will add I have compared the action noise on the Privia vs. my acoustic grand piano. When I mute the strings with felt on the grand acoustic, the action noise is almost identical as the Privia. Stands to reason when you have an action that mimics a true concert piano, the related noise will come with it.  Sure they may be other brands with a quieter action, but I find them to be mushy or flimsy. 

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The internal speakers on these models can easily drown out the action noise.  The statement that the noise is "much louder" than playing music is exaggerated. This may be the case with the volume at minimum but not when its at normal playing level.  Also, any keyboard that simulates the mechanical action of an acoustic piano will have action noise like an acoustic piano.  Some are quieter than others but all of them make noise.  It's the laws of physics.  

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2Scott Hamlin.

I do not notice the noise when using headphones as well:) 

2BradMX

You are missing the point.

 

The idea to use headphones to do not disturb people around you does not work with Privia. It is so, because the noise of the keyboard (mechanical noise) is loud and creates more problems than if you just play music at the same sound level.
Overall the noise is loud.
I want to understand whether there are other digital pianos which solve this problem better than Privia.
 

 

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Back when I was in college, I had an annoyingly picky roommate. I used to practice with my headphones on to not bother him, but the noise from the keyboard still did! It was a CZ-3000.

 

All keyboards make noise with the volume down or off. Even if the action doesn't, there's still the bottoming of the keys as well as the thumping on the floor. 

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You might be interested in reading my posts regarding the PX350-how I added additional felt strips to the key action-not a task for the novice and will definitely void your warranty. Mine was a used PX350 and the felt had been badly compressed. With new felt, the noise level for the keys dropped dramatically.

 

I can speak from experience regarding other piano-action keyboards-especially the Kurzweils, Ensoniqs and Rolands. All are at at least as noisy or noisier than my PX350 and even an older PX575 I play regularly. The newer piano actions on other manufacturer's instruments are using mechanisms surprisingly similar to the Casios metal fulcrum arms.

 

I also isolate the keyboard case from the stand with felt-as especially on a bare floor-the stand will transmit any noise directly from the case of the keyboard to the floor. And since the keys rest directly on the case bottom with only about 1/8" felt strip between the actual metal hammers and the case, I discovered this creates a loud clunk especially if the felt is worn, although I have not studied the internals of the newest Privias, I have to assume the mechanisms are the same as my PX350. I have very sensitive hearing and have played many acoustic pianos and I have to say my Casios compare quite favorably to anything I've ever played and the Casios are definitely quieter than my other piano-action instruments. The old Fatar actions used by many including Kurzweil, Ensoniq and some of the controller instruments are definitely noisier than the Casios. Then newer Doepfer, Yamaha and Rolands seem to be using a newer mechanism but I have no experience playing these. I doubt these are any quieter based upon my studying the design of the mechanisms and support structures.

 

An acoustic piano is (relatively) quiet due to the hammers 1) being heavily felt covered 2) there is such a large amount of wood surrounding the mechanism, this damps out any close-focus sounds coming from the hammers and 3) the hammers are at no point, hitting any part of the piano's body that would create a loud spurious sound source-the hammers are not hitting the wooden parts of the piano with any force due to the escapement mechanics, this is not the case with all digitals which usually have no sound-damping materials in the body of the instrument and the hammers are striking directly against the structure of the body, both on the upstroke and downstroke with (usually) only a thin felt strip between the hammer and the structure of the piano. to completely cancel this effect would require an amazing amount of (costly) engineering for a digital, or cheap hacking by people like me. :chainsaw:  I have added huge pieces of felt to the insides of the digital's body which on my Casios's is all plastic and very good at transmitting internal key noises-this acoustically dampens some of the noise which is being presented by the structure of the piano's shell.

 

Even the old original digitals with wood keys were very noisy as were the (non-digital mechanical) Wurlitzer and Rhodes pianos. And with the louder bands playing through heavy amps as a keyboard p;layer, I honestly never really noticed any of this. But then maybe I was greatful not to be near the drummer which had usually been......me!:banana::banghead:

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2Jokeyman123 Thank  you!
Good thing about PX-360 that it comes with 3 years warranty. Therefore voiding of the warranty is not an option.
Seems like the problem persists though most of DP on  the market.
I heard Kawai makes the most silent keyboard. Can anybody share opinion about the subject with respect to Kawai.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is a review of some recent Kawai models.

http://www.pianobuyer.com/PDFarchive/2015_Review-Kawai.pdf

 

Reviewer says action noise on the CN25 model was "moderately low and not distracting." 

 

There are other reviews of digital pianos on the site (as well as acoustic pianos), including Casio CGP-700 and PX-560.

http://www.pianobuyer.com/archive.html

 

In the review of the Casio models the reviewer does note that the action "makes a bit of a clunk when a key is released."

http://www.pianobuyer.com/PDFarchive/2016_Review-Casio.pdf

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  • 6 months later...

There is an additional information on the subject.
I have purchased two keyboards during several last month - Yamaha MOXF8 and Roland FA-08.
Both have by far quieter mechanics. It almost made me to keep them just because of that superb built quality.
Especially Roland FA-08 provides keys with extremely pleasant feel.

I do not know which keyboard is faster. But in terms of the mechanical noise PX lost in every possible way.
 

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PX5 is probably closest model to FA and MOXF. They are still very different.

Even  FA and MOXF are not alike.

The price difference is not so great. You get some discounts on MOXF and FA modes.

The price gets down to ~1.5 grans or even less.

 

The comparison is totally Ok.
They all have 88 weighted keys with additional features to simulate action of real piano. They all are achieving the same goal.

 

My PX is in perfect condition otherwise I would get rid of it.

It actually still has almost 2 years of the factory warranty.

The clear difference (in mechanical noise) can be found even in store (side by side).

 

2BradMZ - buy FA08 put it next to your Casio then make your judgment.

I think that would be fair. Casio does not need excuses like "I suspect you may have a damaged unit".

 

PX is a winner in term of the piano sound. That is one of the major reason why I keep it.

I may have to look at Nord. (It supposes to but I have no confidence that Nord will be better. I played on it but for very short time)

Maybe I will get FA-08 again but for different purposes (it is always a hard call). I expect there should some new releases soon, so I do not want to buy something outdated.

 

It is not a question for me that Privia  has nosier keyboard than Roland.

This fact can have different reasons. One of the possible reason I see that PX may have faster keys.

I cannot test this. All keyboards were fast enough for me.

 

Roland is a champ at providing of the keyboard feel (I mean it is so enjoyable to play on that keyboard), but it is ridiculous that FA-08 cannot provide a voice of a pure grand piano. It makes no sense to have such great keyboard and no actual grand piano sound.

I felt this dis-balance (awesome keyboard and synthetic sound - no matter how hard you try to adjust it).

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 There is an example of a noise level.

 

ADMIN NOTE: Please do not attach large files here. If everyone downloads this file (60 mgs) it would chew our monthly bandwidth in a day. Please upload to a video sharing service such as YouTube and link to it from here. Thank you. 

 

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14 hours ago, sslyutov said:

 There is an example of a noise level.

 

ADMIN NOTE: Please do not attach large files here. If everyone downloads this file (60 mgs) it would chew our monthly bandwidth in a day. Please upload to a video sharing service such as YouTube and link to it from here. Thank you. 

 

No problem. I thought too large attachment would be rejected automatically.

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  • 1 year later...

There is the continuation of the story.
PX-360 is still alive and happily settled in the garage.
It is in perfect condition and I enjoy playing on it, pretty regularly.

So. 
The noise from keys tapping did not disappear and did not become louder as well. 
My favorite Roland FA 08 with quite keys was traded in for Montage 8.

Montage 8 is not as much a different animal as it may look like at the first sight. 
It uses very much the same concept as Roland in terms of organizing the performances. Enhanced content is a dynamic control during the run-time is targeting the performance side of the instrument.

Back to tapping noise and the keyboard's action.
I can admit that the quality of the keyboard on the Montage 8 by far better than on Privia (I cannot compare durabily since it is too early for Montage).
1) Keys are sitting/aligned more evenly.
2) Keys are not as shaky as they are on both Privia and FA.
3) Speed. The Speed is the same as Privia. FA has the slowest keys. At least the Montage keyboard is not slower than Privia. This fact is actually surprised me because the feel of keys is very solid on Montage.

A note: I make my judgment about the speed of keys by the quality of performance I am capable while playing on different instruments. (I am still taking the 6th level of piano marvel (it took me almost 4 years to complete 90% of Method  and 99% of Technique)
The music I play is gradually getting more and more sophisticated which gives me a good opportunity to compare the playability of different instruments.

4) The tapping noise. Montage has a very quiet keyboard. There is a soft hit sound upon strong push on a key. However, during a performance, it does not get to that level often. The free release of a key does not provide any noise at all, which is the problematic spot for Privia (that actually is the worst part on PX).

I checked the brand new PX in our store. Nothing has changed. The keyboard is still noisy(mechanically). I provide this comment with the hope that this may signal Casio at least to start reviewing the tapping noise issue.

On a good side, I can tell the piano(my PX-360) looks and functions like a brand new. I have it for almost 3 years, it was used as a sound bank for a half of this time.
It is a great backup instrument.
I like it!
 

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  • 1 year later...

I have had my PXS1000 about 1 1/2 years. I am an older guy that played guitar mostly and decided to take up piano in my old age. Admittedly I am just going on to book 2 so I’m by no means even close to an expert. One thing I DO know, is that I agree 100% with Sslyusov! I live in an apartment and mostly use  a Sony headset. When not wearing the headset the mechanical noise is terrible! As a matter of fact, my keyboard volume is pathetic! It would have to have an amp attached if played out somewhere. 

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8 minutes ago, Rickf said:

I have had my PXS1000 about 1 1/2 years. I am an older guy that played guitar mostly and decided to take up piano in my old age. Admittedly I am just going on to book 2 so I’m by no means even close to an expert. One thing I DO know, is that I agree 100% with Sslyusov! I live in an apartment and mostly use  a Sony headset. When not wearing the headset the mechanical noise is terrible! As a matter of fact, my keyboard volume is pathetic! It would have to have an amp attached if played out somewhere. 

 

FYI - The PX-S1000 hasn't be out for a year and a half.  It started shipping the last week of March 2019. 

PX-S1000 is significantly quieter than the models that this thread started on. You'd also find other brands to be louder mechanically. 
 

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Just weighing back in on this. I just checked going prices for an 88-key Montage-the least expensive I could find, and this was "refurbished" or used model was over 3000 bucks! A new one looks to be closer to 4000-yikes. and it weighs....63 pounds, ouch. Nice if you can plunk it somewhere and leave it, and have 3-4000 dollars to spend. I think part of the reason it may be quieter-its massive weight-my old SY77 is around 40 pounds, and it is a spring-action 61-note  keyboard with alot of metal. It's quiet-but then it has a massive amount of steel around it-and is stuffed with IC boards. the Casios are relatively empty inside. Like I said, some acoustic modifications in a Priva can make a big difference-and didn't cost me thousands. Since I spent many years lugging around stuff almost as heavy as me when I was a musical tyke years ago-(huge leslie cabinets come to mind) I'm done with massively heavy keyboards and...other stuff.:hitt:

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