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How Do I Play the CMS Files I Transferred?


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Hi! 

 

I just got a wk 7600 and I am in love! This is the first midi/workstation I've ever used so it's been a lot of learning! I have connected my usb to my PC and downloaded the data manager and was able to transfer my song sequencer files to my computer however, they transferred as CMS files. I am not able to open or access them. How do I transfer files that I can open and listen to and then upload into garage band?

 

Thank you for your help!

FJ

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foxinejay:

 

"CMS" files are Casio proprietary (MIDI) "Song Sequencer" files.  To play them back on the WK-7600, you need to press the "Song Sequencer" button to put the keyboiard into "Song Sequencer" mode, then use the Plus/Minus ( + / - ) buttons or the Data Wheel to select the desired song.  Start playback by pressing the Start/Stop button in the Transport section.  See Page E-79 of the WK-7600 manual for complete details.

 

Being Casio proprietary, CMS files can not be transferred or imported directly into Garage Band, or any other computer based DAW or sequencer.  They must first be saved (converted) to a Standard MIDI File (SMF) on the WK-7600's SD Card.  From there they can be transferred to the computer's hard drive and played back by the computer based DAW or sequencer of your choice. However, they will only sound correctly when played back into the WK-7600, using the WK-7600 as a sound module.  If they are played back into a computer based sound module (VSTi), they will need to be revoiced so that they call up the correct tones on the VSTi tone module.  Even then, the computer's VSTi tone module will still not have the WK-7600's wave samples, so they will still not sound like the WK-7600.  Also, when MIDI files are imported from a keyboard's sequencer to a computer based DAW or sequencer, any effects settings (reverb, chorus, etc) are typically lost, and need to be reinserted  The only way to preserve the WK-7600's exact sounds is to record them as Casio proprietary Audio files to the SD Card, as they are played back by the Song Sequencer, and use the Data Manager software to convert and transfer them to the computer's hard drive as standard WAV files.  From there, they can be played on any standard WAV file player and will sound just like the WK-7600.  Those standard WAV files can also be converted from WAV to MP3 files with a third party WAV-to-MP3 converter and played back on any MP3 player and sound just like the WK-7600. See Pages 121 through 129 of the manual.  These instructions get rather "involved", so be prepared, but the fact that you have the Data Manager installed and the CMS files downloaded to the WK-7600 shows excellent progress so far.  Hang in there !  After you have done it successfully a couple of times, it gets to be fairly routine pretty quickly, but give a shout if you need further assistance.

 

To simplify things a bit, the WK-7600 is actually equipped with two separate recorders - the Song Sequencer, which is a MIDI recorder and the Audio Recorder, which is self explanatory by its name.  The Audio Recorder can record songs that YOU play in real time, but it can also record the CMS files as they are played back by the Song Sequencer, which is exactly what we are discussing in this thread.  As a prerequisite, Audio files are recorded to a special hidden partition on the SD Card, so if you did not originally format the SD Card on the WK-7600, you will need to do that, in order to create that hidden partition.  Neither DOS/Windows nor MAC OS can see this partition or the audio files in it.  You will need to use the Data Manager software to manage (convert/transfer) those files.

 

Good luck !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

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Thank you so much, this is very helpful!:2thu:

 

Now I will try to learn how to record audio..and then convert the files to wav. that way. Do I need a card for that? When you say "SD card" is that a physical card I insert in the back or is it within the keyboard already? 

 

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The SD Card is a separate memory card that plugs into the card slot in the back of the WK-7600.  It requires a minimum of 2Gb.  MIDI files (CMS & SMF) are fairly small, but audio files can get very large very quickly, so if you plan on much audio work and storing them on the SD Card, I would recommend as large a card as you can afford (4 or 8 Gb, at least).  I finally settled on a 32 Gb card, so that I do not have to continually worry about running out of space.

 

Now, I was going to add some info to my original reply, but since you have already seen that, I will include that info here.  I tried to cover only the basics of this subject in my previous reply, but for future reference: while the Audio Recorder will also record mono signals applied to the MIC IN (voice, etc.) and INST IN (guitar, bass, etc.) jacks, it WILL NOT record stereo signals applied to the AUDIO IN jack.  This is Casio's way of avoiding complicity in piracy of complete works from CD's players, MP3 players, etc.  I cover this here, as this is something that most novices miss in the manual and think there is something wrong with their procedure or keyboard when they eventually try it and it does not work.

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

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  • 1 year later...

The conversion I was referencing was using the Data Manager software to convert Casio proprietary audio files, that had been recorded to the SD Card, by the keyboard, to standard Windows WAV files, and transferring them to a computer's hard drive for distribution to other devices.  This process has absolutely nothing to do with CMS files, as CMS files are MIDI files, not audio files.  This is the only conversion process that the Data Manager software performs - Casio proprietary audio files to standard Windows WAV (audio) files.  Basically, it is just a conversion from one audio format to another (more widely useable) audio format.

 

Songs stored in the keyboard's internal Song Sequencer memory can be converted to Standard MIDI Files (SMF) when they are saved from the keyboard's internal memory to the SD Card, but that conversion is done by the keyboard itself, not the Data Management software.  When a Song is saved to the SD Card, there will be an option to save it as a CMS file, or as a Standard MIDI File (SMF).  See the appropriate section in the manual for saving data to the SD Card.

 

The full "conversion" process I described previously amounted to loading a CMS (MIDI) file into the Song Sequecer, and playing it back, as the keyboard's Audio Recorder recorded it to a Casio audio file, on the SD Card, then using the Data Manager software to convert the Casio audio file to a Windows WAV (audio) file and transfering that to a computer, but there is no "direct" ("single step"/"menu option") conversion of CMS files to audio (WAV) files, rather, it is a somewhat involved process with several steps. Obviously, this procedure will only work on the CTK/WK-7XXX models, as the CTK/WK-6XXX models do not have audio recording capabilities.

 

 

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  • 3 years later...

 

This is a copy/paste of a PM I sent yesterday to T re-the above reply,he suggested I post it here instead as by doing so it would be available to all forum members as a source of valuable info-

 

Happened to find this when looking for info about the file types Casio uses,saw you're still active over here and wonder if you'd have a chance to get back to me at some point...

 

Read your reply in detail and would appreciate anything you could pass along re-setting up SMF files directly from a WK-6600(song sequencer tracks)and then being able to upload these into a DAW and using different plugins with them-

 

Would these correspond directly to standard MIDI settings i.e.could I record a keyboard part on the WK-6600 and then use a VST2/3 plugin to play it using various options (i.e.EP,acoustic,organ etc)as if I was switching between tones on the WK-6600 or would the "revoicing" factors you mentioned be involved?

 

If so, exactly what are you referring to?

 

New to this and any tips/advice would be great....

 

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Once a Song Sequencer CMS Song File is converted to an SMF on any of the CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX keyboards, it no longer has anything, what-so-ever, to do with the Song Sequencer.  It can not be loaded into and played or edited by the Song Sequencer.  It resides on the SD Card and can only be played, from there, by the keyboard's "SMF Player" circuit, which is totally separate from the Song Sequencer.  During the CMS-to-SMF conversion, all of the keyboard's high quality "panel" or "native" voices are replaced with the lower quality, polyphony saving, voices of the General MIDI (GM1) voice set.  This is the equivalent of the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth voice set found on Windows computers, and explains why the CMS-to-SMF converted Song file can be ported to any Windows computer and sound "correct", albeit it with a much tinnier timbre than the original CMS Song file played on the keyboard.  The CMS-to-SMF conversion also removes all DSP effects.  I cover all of this to make the point that there is nothing that can be done with the converted SMF file on the keyboard for using it with computer based VST instruments.  It must be ported to a computer based DAW/sequencer program and extensively revoiced in order to match the voice map of the chosen VST program, as well as having any necessary/desired DSP effects re-applied.

 

Now, all of that said, considering muting the keyboard's own voice set (MIDI Local Off) and revoicing the original CMS Song to match the mapping of a computer based VST voice set, then controlling that VST voice set from the Song Sequencer, as the original CMS Song is played back, will only work for the notes played in real-time on the keybed, during the recording process.  It will not work for any Auto-accompaniment sounds. Casio CTK/WK keyboards do not record, or transmit to external devices, the individual notes of the Auto-acconpaniment.  Rather, they only record the notes played by the left hand that "control" the Auto-accompaniment, so that on playback, those recorded notes again control the Auto-accompaniment, in real-time.  This is Casio's way of preventing interlopers from easily stealing and marketing their proprietary rhythms.

 

As for the specifics of the process of "voicing" or "re-voicinng" instruments and/or MIDI files, that is a subject that is far beyond the scope of this forum.  I would strongly recommend doing Google, or Bing, or YouTube searches on MIDI basics, particularly those areas involving voice/tone maps, and the use of MSB/LSB codes for the selection of "Banks" of voices/tones/instruments/sounds (whatever you prefer to call them), and Program Change (PC) codes for the selection of specific voices/tones from within those "Banks", so that the keyboard or sound module makes the desired sound at the correct time.  There is a plethora of fine materials out there. that do a much better, and more complete, job of explaining these areas, than we could ever hope to do with the time and space that we have here.

 

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T-

Appreciate you taking the time to post the above-

 

Would I be understanding you correctly here in that,unlike the process of converting an audio file to MIDI whichever is then immediately playable by any of the VST options in the DAW,the song sequencer data(this would be material recorded to the 16 B tracks not the System tracks/auto accompaniment)although being in GM 1 file format wouldn't play through these VST's without being-

 

extensively revoiced in order to match the voice map of the chosen VST program

 

???

 

Not sure why that would be the case as they're standard GM 1 files,to my way of thinking a Cm7 played around middle C using the voicing

 

Bb C Eb G 

 

should theoretically sound the same in terms of note arrangement/range when converted to a GM1 SMF,imported into a DAW,set up on a MIDI track and a VST plugin that recognizes these file types is used....am I missing something here?

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58 minutes ago, GMS said:

Would I be understanding you correctly here in that,unlike the process of converting an audio file to MIDI whichever is then immediately playable by any of the VST options in the DAW,the song sequencer data(this would be material recorded to the 16 B tracks not the System tracks/auto accompaniment)although being in GM 1 file format wouldn't play through these VST's without being-

 

From this and your other questions and comments, it appears that you prefer the sounds of computer based VST instruments to those of your keyboard.  That being the case, I must ask, why are you even bothering with the keyboard's Song Sequencer at all?  Just turn down the keyboard's volume knob, connect its USB port to the computer, and using the keyboard simply as a "MIDI controller", record your performance with your selected VST sound with the computer's DAW sequencer.  One stop shopping.  All done in one place.  No difficult revoicings required.  This avoids the problem of trying to fit a square peg (the keyboard's selected sound) into a round hole (the desired VST sound).  Plus your DAW's sequencer gives you much greater (and larger screen) editing capabilities than your keyboard can.

 

As to your question of are you missing something, Yes!  You are missing the basics I mentioned in my previous reply.  You definitely need those, if you want to master this.

 

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Ted and GMS-I am confused about one part of this-when converting an audio file to midi....I am guessing this is not what you meant-as this is still one of the mostly impossible stuntsthere are a few programs that will "listen" to an audio file, and try to translate into midi data-but evey one I've tried does a miserable job of it-except for the crudest one-line melodies, and even those are not too accurate. So again i guess the wording here is not actually what you mean?

 

And yes of course-use the keyboard to play and control your VST instruments-but watch for "latency" a delay from when you hit a key, and the sound coming from your computer instruments. It's gotten better more recently, but i still have had nothing but frustration playing VST instruments live without latency using a controller keyboard.

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T/Jokeyman 123-

 

Just did some Googling of the terms mentioned relating to the technical aspects of MIDI in terms of how "performance data gets translated to digital information,which can then be read by any device supporting MIDI" in the words of the article where I found the chart copy/pasted below....

other_midi_terms_explained_2.png

 

To clarify what I'm asking about  before getting into some of the other stuff under discussion here....

 

T are you saying that in terms of the previous example I used of the Cm7 voicing/range re-keyboard,the SMF wouldn't have C4 used for the middle C?

 

Also in terms of the timing of the notes,these might not correspond to the way they were played on the song sequencer?

 

As far as the topic of using the WK-6600 as a MIDI controller keyboard,hooking it up via USB and directly inputting things into a VST in the DAW itself....

 

Most definitely been looking into this and will undoubtedly be doing it at some point,especially for simpler stuff...however...

 

I've developed a workflow based on using the song sequencer I rely on...I set up the track by recording stuff to one track,use the edit screen functions to fix the timing of a passage,delete and re-record a section of it etc,then mute this track,record the next part on the next track,repeat the same process,then once it's good,again use the edit screen to set it up timewise so it starts right after the first track ends....as well,all of this is being done sync'd to a drum machine and I'm focused on getting the timing right...

 

Given the above and the fact that these keyboards parts are somewhat involved technically and often require using the tempo setting to record a tricky part at a slower tempo than the rest of the track then resetting the tempo to continue putting things together,while I'm sure I could figure out ways of doing some of this using the USB-line- into-the-DAW approach,for now I'll be using this WK-6600 song sequencer based approach....

 

Really not as concerned about things like DSP settings or specific aspects of a given tone used on the keyboard translating to the SMF file as I'm focused on getting into working with various VSTs with the resultant MIDI track and editing it tonewise in the DAW,but want to make sure I'm able to set things up so I can import a readily usable MIDI file into the DAW....

 

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So you understand the difference between an audio file and a midi file, correct? a midi file while playing can be recorded and saved as an audio file-but will either record as a monophonic or stereophonic audio file-but each type of file, although now rendered as computer data-is still entirely different in terms of compute data and language. sort of like the difference between your wi-fi signals and your cellphone signals-only even more so. I think what you are seeking to understand-i may be wrong-will a midi file, whether aGM standard type of smf, or a midi file created with VST's-tones or sounds rendered digitally from within your computer-which are now being translated into midi data, not audio-will the pitches co-relate? Octave schemes between different midi files might not be the same-in other words, that tone which plays in 2 octaves below middle C, may play in 1 octave below or even above middle C-one of the aarrgghhh!!! aspects of trying to play a midi file created on one keyboard or VST-and then played on a different keyboard or VST. You can modify that manually with any midi editor-but it means that you may have to. for example-I have modified many .ckf rhythm files and uploaded these here-can be played on many of the older and newer Casios by the way if you want to try these out-but these were originally created and edited from Roland and Yamaha keyboards and auto-arrangers. Not audio files, pure midi data files (a ckf is a proprietary Casio data file-usually a rhtyhm accompaniment but can be other things on older Casios. in the process of trying to massage these into playable files on Casio arrangers-I did have to octave shift several individual tones-which were in the right octave on the roland and Yamaha equipment-but when I converted these to Casio-several tones were not right and i had to manually shift the octaves-particularly noticeable in the basslines, but not exclusively. 

 

Maybe I'm off--topic, i'm not sure, so giving you alot of info you may or may not need-just trying to be thorough. Know this-although .smf (midi files) are now a little more universally playable by various equipment-this was not always so, so you may find an older midi file-or even VST-that is not designed to the GM-General Midi standard-which specifies exactly which tone should play back on each midi channel-including midi channel 10 which is reserved for drum/percussion tracks. Midi concepts have been around a long time-so if you are just starting out-you are up against a huge history of development and changes over the years. The only aspect of this that hasn't changed since it's inception is the GM standard-although again, Yamaha and Roland created their own extensions-making this GM standard more complex but also more verstile (in theory at least). Hope this helps rather than confuse!!!!

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J123-

 

Much thx for continuing to post this kind of info ..will be reviewing it thoroughly along w/continuing to go over info relating to this from the Google search I did earlier so I'll have a much better sense of everything involved and post a reply later....

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J123-

 

Just read through your reply from Friday and see you are completely correct in your understanding of what I'm focusing on... and greatly appreciate you contributing to this discussion as I'll be doing this for the first time...

 

Also wanted to mention that in terms of your earlier reply from Fri about converting an audio file to midi,Melodyne is one program which is specifically geared to do this both for percussion/single note and polyphonic material....in Cakewalk(the DAW I'm using) it's installed and set up as a "Region FX " where you can drag/drop an audio track directly to a MIDI track and,using what they call ARA technology,this conversion takes place automatically...

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  • 11 months later...

I'm a little late to the party, but is there any way to convert from a .CMS file to a .MIDI without the use of an SD card? Just curious -- I have a 6200 and it's all hooked up to my computer, and I transferred the files only to realize it's in a specialized file format.

I was hoping there's a tool in the data manager or at least a third party tool out there to convert it for you, but if there isn't, oh well.

 

Thanks in advance

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