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Piano sounds continued


Rocknrolldentist

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On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 5:54 AM, aron said:

It's a synthesizer but a limited one. It is a mostly subtractive synthesizer for the piano/waveforms. That means you can use filters (lowpass/highpass etc) but you cannot "synthesize" a new raw piano waveform in the sense that you have to start with what is there.

Almost every professional keyboard has a way to alter the piano sound by making it brighter, darker etc... But unless you can change the samples, you are limited in what you can do to alter the sound. That's why almost every piano in the PX-5s has that "bell sound" for those people that hear it.

I don't have that "bell sound" on my PX-5s.  I didn't hear it on a demo PX-5s at GC.  Could someone please post a recording of this "bell sound"?

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Hi BradMZ--I like your noodling--The way your keyboard comes out of my computer is beautiful--You wouldn't hear another peep from me if I could get my keyboard to sound like that to me. What kind of amp are you playing through? Also, when your recording comes over the airwaves, the signal gets compressed and changed a bit--and it sounds better than live over my speakers--but I must say, I've been having a ball with my 5x-s lately and will keep looking for the tweak that will make my keys sound like what I just heardovewr my computer from you! Thanks....

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34 minutes ago, Rocknrolldentist said:

Aron--I did try the Qsc 10s and the Ev10s and one other--(but only in mono)--I was going to try the space stattion but I read some reviews that they werent powerful enough--still may take a shot...Ill let you know....

The Space Station is good for small to medium venues.  Large venues it's a personal monitor then, (you should be running FOH then).  If you're competing against a stack of Marshalls then it's a personal monitor (again the need for FOH).   I've been using the SSV3 for almost 1 1/2 years now with great results.  It's just right for solo gigs.  I run my PX-5s and XWP1 through it with no volume problems.

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Rocknrolldentist, what if you play your PX-5S through your computer speakers. If you don't hear the bell tone, then you can proceed to find speakers that don't "ring" and cause the problem for live. The computer speakers are in stereo so that might be part of it.


 

If you do hear it, then there might not be anything we can do about it.

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BradMZ--Good idea but my computer does not have separate speakers that  can hook up to my px. I've got a feeling that there is really nothing you can do--the samples are what they--for me. it's a shame, because I've really mastered moist of the keyboard and I really love everything about it--I've compared it to the kurzweil artis se, the korg kross and krome, the roland rm 800 and the yamaha moxf8 and besides (IMO) the piano sounds being better on those other boards, the functionality and the other tones on the px-5 (not to mention the price) doesn't come close--and,as already stated, I have a large sample size to prove it. I do wish i could find a way to modify the pianos to my liking (to be something like the grand on  the yamaha boards) but it looks like that's not to be. I really do appreciate all of your help and also that of the forum community (another awesome benefit of owning a casio)..... Rock on!!

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Lets use logic on this problem. You do admit that the piano sounds I posted and Brad posted sound fine on your computer speakers. In my sample case - this was recorded directly onboard the PX direct to USB. In other words this is almost a direct copy of the output of the PX-5S. So if you play your PX-5S with the Dolce program, your output of your PX would be the same.

 

So if your computer speakers sound OK, then your "bell sound" is a result of your live performance speakers. I know the KC DOES have that ringing problem you describe. I am sure if you get another pair of speakers and adjust the EQ you should be able to get it to sound like you want. 

 

So 2 things are happening:

1: Your computer speakers are stereo

2: They have a radically different timbre than your KC speaker. So EQ a new pair to sound closer to your computer speakers.

 

Change both of these for live and you should be good to go.

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Quote

...In other words this is almost a direct copy of the output of the PX-5S. So if you play your PX-5S with the Dolce program, your output of your PX would be the same.

 

 

 

 

 

That may not be necessarily true.  When the data is output and saved to USB it goes through a conversion process where it is defined as a 16 bit 44.1 khz sample in wav format.  That conversion is going to cut out some of the extraneous frequencies.  Listening directly from the outputs, while still a digital signal, the output may not be at a consistent sample rate and will also be mixed with additional electronic noise that comes from the output plugs themselves, the cables used, and the conversion to a specific audio format is bypassed.

 

In theory, the two sounds should be very similar, but the results may not be the same.  Plus the output volume to the USB will influence the amplitude of the sample recording itself.  There may be anti clipping compression that occurs in the PX when saving diretly to USB which would also shape the frequencies.

 


 

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Whatever. That's why I said almost. Whatever you said will not affect the sound as much as the difference between the KC amps and his computer speakers.

We can get technical if you want - but please give me a break.

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No aron -Mr Choppin is correct....I don't know anything about the technical aspect of this situation but I did try the px on a set of stereo studio monitors (M-audio Bx-5s) and the pianos still sound the same. There is definitely a change from what I hear live through my speakers (whether it be the Kc or the M-audio) and a transmission from a USB over the internet. I would love to hook up my px to my computer speakers, but they are not separate from the monitor. The transmission to my computer from you and BRADMZ definitelty sounds different--Like i said, I don't know how this works but it's definitely the case.  I wish you lived closer to me so I could demonstrate this to you--but, alas, geography will not allow this. I would love to hear the sound I hear from your Dolce and Brad's 'noodling" but I can't. As previously stated, I LOVE everything else about this board but the pianos. I will continue my search/investigation and keep you updated.  Very interesting....

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My video's soundtrack was recorded from the PX-5S line out...not the built in audio recorder.  Also note....the audio recorder on the PX-5S records pre master effects. Master EQ and compressor will not be recorded with the audio recorder.  If no master effects are in play, the audio recorder wav files and line out will be the same sound.  

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Wow Aron!! I thought you were a rational, level-headed intelligent guy. You certainly have helped a lot in this thread but no one has forced you to participate.  Mr Choppin may have his opinions, (which I don't understand)---I only know what my personal audio experience has been.  If you don't want to write anymore, by all means, don't. But getting angry about it serves no purpose.  Your input, all along, has been very positive (at least for me) and I respect your musical prowess--no need to get P.O'd--If you can instruct me how, I'd love to post the sound of my keyboard for you--but I'm clueless on how to do this (If you'd like me to)--otherwise, be well and thanks for your input.

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Quote

 Whatever you said will not affect the sound as much as the difference between the KC amps and his computer speakers.

aron,

 

I agree.  But a recording vs a live playing may be different.  My assumption, and I may be wrong for assuming, is that Rocknrolldentist is playing the recording through the computer, but the live playing is going through headphones or the amp directly attached to the PX.

 

My intention is not to offend or say anyone is wrong.  I'm just saying there are factors that may make one's experience different from another's - that includes the physical hardware (the keyboard itself, the speakers, etc.), the method of recording, the output volumes, and of course the person listening.   I apologize if you thought it was an attack.

 

 

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Hey Choppin--I agreee whole heartedly with you.  For information purposes, I am hearing Aron's and BRADMZ's playing through my computer, and it sounds awesome. I am playing my px through 2 M-audio bx-5 speakers in stereo, and can't reproduce what I;m hearing over the internet. So, check this experiment out, speaking of different sounds: I recorded my px-5 with a sure mic in front of my speakers, into a tascam digital recorder.....and burned a cd from that recording. I then played the cd back on a a player, and compared it to what I was hearing live through the speakers----and the 2 sounds were not the same!! (something similar to hearing Aron and BRad's recordings over my computer and those not being the same of what I hear live--Explain thaT, if you can......

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  • 3 years later...

Could this possibly be the string resonance that Casio has tried to emulate in the piano..to give another dimension to the sound..perhaps your hearing is tuned into the resonance frequency and you hear it more acutely? I would try running the sound through a mixer with as many equaliser channels as possible even a graphic equaliser turning down the higher frequencies in small increments until you effectively find the frequency that affects the sound directly and turn it down to achieve the desired effect..just a thought

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