Jump to content

Help on confirming a bug on mixer settings


Korakios

Recommended Posts

Hi, 

It seems that using a dsp fx messes with mixer volume and can't properly save a performance patch. I noticed that every part that has dsp fx turned on shares the same volume setting. For example if I set dsp on to parts 8-9-10 then adjusting the volume for part 8 on the mixer, sets the same volume on parts 9+10. Maybe it's a limitation to save processing load on Casio CPU. But

My main problem is that every time I recall the performance ,the parts with DSP on ,are in max position. In my performance patch I use a sequencer patch with DSP on 8,9 parts. I set the mixer to 50% save the seq patch and then save the perform patch. Recalling the perform patch sets the volume to Max on 8,9 but the weird thing is that if I pick a different seq patch and recall my original ,the mixer settings are OK.

Could anyone confirm this?

Also it seems impossible to save individual reverb type/decay per performance. 

Any help appreciated

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup that happens, and it saves individual reverb and chorus per  performance.

Nowadays I'll zero those values for reverb ,chorus down and turn Eq off as well.

 

Whenever a dsp is used with solo-synth any altered value for volume seems to

be saved by the mixer matrix. Its best to use Expression which doesn't alter the 

whole mixer value's in the performance patch.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for helping me but I didn't understand!

When you say "that happens" what do you mean? 

Also, on your g1 you can save a performance patch with reverb type 1 and make another patch using reverb type 2 and recalling the patches the reverb type changes too? On my g1 the reverb type and decay on FX settings stays always the same. (keeps the last tweaked value always). 

I must mention that on the example I wrote for the max volume on a DSP enabled part I didn't use the solo synth DSP. (no solo synth at all) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Korakios said:

Thanks for helping me but I didn't understand!

When you say "that happens" what do you mean? 

Also, on your g1 you can save a performance patch with reverb type 1 and make another patch using reverb type 2 and recalling the patches the reverb type changes too? On my g1 the reverb type and decay on FX settings stays always the same. (keeps the last tweaked value always). 

I must mention that on the example I wrote for the max volume on a DSP enabled part I didn't use the solo synth DSP. (no solo synth at all) 

 

You're right I wasn't specific what I mend is that if a performance changes the reverb or chorus it sometimes get mangled when switching 

to other performances it doesn't affect Tone mode or the use of DSP by the solo-synth or the solo synth at all. 

 

Performances I build make use of everything so when I switch performances the synth changes the settings accordingly but sometimes

something gets loud or quiet,panned  or to much chorus even when its not saved like as it was. So only certain channels gets  DSP,

chorus or reverb when I'm building them in zone 1 or 2 to 3.

 

Forgot this also important that when the controls of step sequence are used with #CC for volume and panning it also alters the channel mixing. 

 

What is true is when you select DSP in a performance it handels the volume of all channels using DSP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will reset my Casio and will reflash the firmware. 

I did the following 

Empty performance patch with no synth sounds. 

Assigned 4 zones with piano P100 sounds. Reduced the volume on all zones to 50

On zone 4 ,I set DSP wah.

Save the performance. Everything is saved good. 

Recall the performance and it works. Nice,  but

 I increase volume on part 4 to 70. 

Save performance. Crap, it resets to 50.

Edit

I NAILED IT! 

The volume (and the reverb send) parameters of a DSP enabled part cannot be altered. 

It shares the same values of part one. WTF?

 

If anyone could repeat the above steps and post some feedback I would appreciate it very much. 

 

At least I learned why the global reverb remained unchanged:

Press menu and on "performance filter" set "Sys Rev" to "off"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Korakios said:

I will reset my Casio and will reflash the firmware. 

I did the following 

Empty performance patch with no synth sounds. 

Assigned 4 zones with piano P100 sounds. Reduced the volume on all zones to 50

On zone 4 ,I set DSP wah.

Save the performance. Everything is saved good. 

Recall the performance and it works. Nice,  but

 I increase volume on part 4 to 70. 

Save performance. Crap, it resets to 50.

Edit

I NAILED IT! 

The volume (and the reverb send) parameters of a DSP enabled part cannot be altered. 

It shares the same values of part one. WTF?

 

If anyone could repeat the above steps and post some feedback I would appreciate it very much. 

 

At least I learned why the global reverb remained unchanged:

Press menu and on "performance filter" set "Sys Rev" to "off"

 

 

I don't want to sound snotty but I have to congrats you from now on you're at pro user level. 

Important is delving in the synth and knowing its internals that what using a synth is all about

get in finding out what works and what not to you're sound.

 

Hope to count on you're experience :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Korakios, I don't think what you are experiencing is a bug per se. It's likely a logical consequence of the XW-G1's effects structure. You can read more about that, strangely enough, in the document The XW-P1 Companion, which is downloadable from the XW-P1 forum. While there are many differences between the P1 and the G1 the effects are the same. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

All channels/zones whose DSP Lines are enabled do seem to be linked. They share volume, pan position and many other parameters unfortunately. I think it's either the zone 1 or the lowest channel number settings that takes precedence. This is especially frustrating with respect to volume because it means you can't blend/mix the tones involved. But there is a work around, at least for volume: use expression (CC#11) instead - http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/11206-expression-cc11-vs-volume-cc07-and-performance-dsp/ You can assign a knob to change expression for specific zones and thus mix the tones. Unfortunately expression is not saved as part of a Performance, so you have to reset it each time. 

 

The multifunction keys send CC#11 on the G1, so you can use a few to simply set the appropriate values. Then all you need to do is press them once to get your desired mix. 

 

One gotcha that occurs due to expression not being saved is that it carries over between Performances so you can end up with your previous expression settings affecting the mix in a new Performance. For this reason I always create a few multifunction keys to restore expression values back to 127 in any Performance where I alter them. I just have to remember to hit the multifunction keys before moving on to a new Performance.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Useful work around, Brett. I have an idea that builds on this for setting or restoring expression values when you call up a given Performance, one that should work equally well on both G1 and P1.

 

Store the expression settings you want for each of the four zones (Z1 to Z4) in the four control tracks (Ct1 to Ct4) of one of the patterns of a sequence. Assign each control track to one of the knobs (K1 to K4). Assign each knob in your Performance to affect the expression parameter of one of the four zones. Associate the sequence containing this pattern and the pattern itself with the Performance so that it is ready to play when you call up the Performance. Then, when you change to that Performance simply hit PLAY and the expression values you want are applied. This does use up one of the eight available patterns in a sequence but you still have seven others to work with in order to play an actual sequence of notes while the Performance is active.

 

I didn't actually try this and there might be something I'm not remembering that would prevent it from working. And, of course, all of this is only good for the first four parts (zones). It doesn't fix the problem for other parts. And it can't do anything about pan positions for any of the parts passing through the DSP effect. They will all be the same (a secondary problem). 

 

Note that what I was trying to say in my previous post here is that the described behavior (pre-effect volumes and pan positions not being respected when passing parts through the DSP) was likely intentional. The XW's designers probably didn't expect people to want to pass multiple parts through a DSP effect at the same time. (Besides which, allowing separate pan positions would require stereo-in, stereo-out DSP effects.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks a billion @BrettM !!!Missed the original post you linked ,describing the same issue. Excellent workaround

Thank you @AlenK for the tip of the control track part.

 

Currently I have my xw for sale, but mostly cause of my ipad addiction! Will try the CC#11 workaround soon!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.