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Should my PX-5S be this bouncy?


TLc

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Hello. I've opened a thread some while ago about fixing the PX-5S with CC pedals before bying it.

 

I didn't have anywhere to try it locally, but eventually I have ordered it from abroad counting on the many good reviews, and I received it today just a couple of hours ago.

 

Well, I started fiddling with it a bit, and one of the first things I have noticed is that the keys seem to bounce back right after you press and are still holding them. I'm not talking about the bouncing it performs when coming back up, but rather that when I'm holding the key down it doesn't settle immediately as I depress it but rather bounces up and down maybe twice quite noticeably.

 

I'm really not a piano expert, but I have checked it with some cheap upright I own and it seemed to have no noticeable such bouncing (and the bouncing when releasing a key is more subtle as well). What's happening with the PX-5S feels kind of weird to me. Even if I don't have much experience playing pianos/keyboards and I haven't really played the upright I own since a year or two ago (I planned on using the Casio to develop my playing as well), I feel like it could hamper my playing as I suspect this shouldn't really be a "feature" of the action. It's especially noticeable and possibly problematic in my opinion when trying to play softly: as you don't come with much force which counters its tendency to bounce back, the bouncing moves the finger more.

 

Here's a 1/2 speed video demonstrating the bouncing (yes, my finger is at the very edge of the keys, but playing at the more usual depth doesn't seem to remedy this):

 

I doubt that's universally normal with pianos, but is that normal with other PX-5S as well or is there something wrong with my unit? I read so many great reviews of its action that it seems strange this wouldn't be mentioned.

 

Thanks in advance.

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I'm referring more to the little hopping it does while being held down, rather than the return speed. I know it doesn't use springs, but there's obviously something different in its mechanism from say my own upright. Let's presume this is how all the PX-5S are expected to behave – how does it compare to other kinds of acoustic piano actions? Maybe mine is also really "un-bouncy"?

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I am referring to that as well. That is the counterbalance you are experiencing. Without that, you don't have a hammer action keyboard. You have a synth action.   

 

Acoustic pianos vary wildly in their feel. The PX-5S feels better than many uprights I have played, and even some grands. 

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Your Privia is behaving correctly. Yes the mechanism is very different from an acoustic piano, but the Privia/Celviano action is one of the most playable actions I have come across on a digital. The only action that I think trumps it is the Celviano Grand Hybrid. 

 

Any new action takes some time to get used to, but you will find the Privia action to feel natural in no time, And you will benefit from its "anti-fatigue"  properties. Not sure what it is, but for some reason I can play longer on the Casio action than I can on any other weighted action and it doesn't aggravate my carpal tunnel syndrome or cause RSI. 

 

Just keep playing and using it - trust me!

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Very well, then. I wanted first and foremost to know whether that's expected from the PX-5S. I do see thought that Brad says it's an expected feature of a hammer action (in general is what I'm getting), even if my acoustic upright reacts differently, while Scott seems to agree it won't truly be the same as an acoustic (at least mechanism-wise) but still praises its action's playability, so there's that. I just wonder how perhaps other acoustic pianos would compare regarding this effect as I haven't gotten to play many at all.

 

Also, I am yet to have a bag for my Privia and so I managed to bump the edge of the keyboard's casing into my stairs' damn banister, so there's already a dark mark on it. While I'm unlikely to return the keyboard, I like to at least take a couple of days before I begin demolishing a new purchase.

 

EDIT: On a side note, I'd also want to mention I've received the MIDI Expression Quatro adapter I plan on using with the keyboard. I haven't tested it with the keyboard itself yet (and I plan on buying a Roland RPU-3 for that), but I tested it with a Moog EP-3 expression pedal and my guitar inside a software amplifier, and it seems to work great! Really smooth response and you can easily change what output each pedal sends. I do feel like it was a bit expensive at $119 as the circuit for such A/D conversion is probably pretty simple, but the available offering of pedal adapters is quite slim, so I guess that's a pricing you can expect when there aren't many alternatives to choose from.

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Is that so? I seem to be getting contradicting answers. I think it's quite visible in my video (referring to you just barely seeing it); but as stated, it is (obviously) slowed down to half-speed. I did notice it while playing, but it should also be easier to see in my video. It appears across the keyboard, but it is less forceful at the upper keys (probably because their mechanism is lighter). I'm not entirely sure whether there are few individual keys that do feel less bouncy, though. It seems to be a consistent behavior of the keys, but the effect is possibly not completely linear throughout the keys.

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Just now, Scott Hamlin said:

I can assure you that the key-action behavior exhibited in your video is indeed normal for all the Casio Privias and Celvianos. I have played all the various models COUNTLESS times and they are all like that. 

Very well. I tend to believe you as there's not much point in deterring someone from replacing a faulty unit, but I wonder why raymb1 says he doesn't experience what's demonstrated with his own PX-5S.

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45 minutes ago, BradMZ said:

Yes, it is normal.  In the video, you are pressing the keys with almost no velocity. That is not normal playing technique.  

Well, it does happen as well with more firm pressing, it would just settle down a bit more quickly. If I'll force down onto the key like I have plutonium fingers it would obviously keep more restrained, but that's not how you should play. If I'll depress the key very, very slowly it wouldn't initiate any bounce-back at all.

 

EDIT: I believe you misunderstood the video, seeing your edited comment? The video is slowed down to half-speed (from 60fps to 30fps). The velocity was not that low and there are definitely notes being triggered. Listen to the muffled hums – these are the piano notes slowed down (the speaker wasn't aimed towards me so the volume captured is a bit low).

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Look in this forum for my posts about how i modified the key action on my PX350-which has the same basic physical key construct as the PX5s as fas as I know. Look at my posted pictures so that you can see the actual mechanism and study the various parts of it-the metal fulcrum arms in particular. Then you may have a better undersatnding regarding whether your key action is functioning normally or not. As several of you have already posted, of course there will be a bouncing response when played lightly, since the steel fulcrum arm bounces back a bit after being struck down, even softly. but this mimics the action (somewhat) of the felt hammer in an acoustic piano when it bounces off the strings.  In an acoustic piano the hammer does not bounce back and hit anything so you will feel no "bounceback" wih an acoustic-any piano techs correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I remember. Of course you may get a nasty smell of old beer, cigarettes and other assorted garbage with the old "house" pianos, as well as the possibility of assorted goo on the keys. This is why most of us prefer digitals and bring our own boards.  I prefer to spill my own drinks on my keyboards.     :beer::banghead:

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7 hours ago, Jokeyman123 said:

Look in this forum for my posts about how i modified the key action on my PX350-which has the same basic physical key construct as the PX5s as fas as I know. Look at my posted pictures so that you can see the actual mechanism and study the various parts of it-the metal fulcrum arms in particular. Then you may have a better undersatnding regarding whether your key action is functioning normally or not. As several of you have already posted, of course there will be a bouncing response when played lightly, since the steel fulcrum arm bounces back a bit after being struck down, even softly. but this mimics the action (somewhat) of the felt hammer in an acoustic piano when it bounces off the strings.  In an acoustic piano the hammer does not bounce back and hit anything so you will feel no "bounceback" wih an acoustic-any piano techs correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I remember. Of course you may get a nasty smell of old beer, cigarettes and other assorted garbage with the old "house" pianos, as well as the possibility of assorted goo on the keys. This is why most of us prefer digitals and bring our own boards.  I prefer to spill my own drinks on my keyboards.     :beer::banghead:

Wait, I'm not following. You say this mimics something that does happen in an acoustic piano or not? As I said, my upright doesn't exhibit this behavior, and I didn't understand whether you think my Privia seems on par with other units/DPs or not. I tried watching some videos of the PX-5S, but it's harder to tell when it is not shot closely or slowed down.

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I would say mine does it and that they all do, but when I'm playing it, I don't really notice it. I did a long, hot, sweaty, outdoor gig with mine last Friday, and the action felt great. I have no complaints at all. I play on real acoustic grand pianos all the time, including my own Kawai and a Steinway at my piano lesson.

 

I'd tell you to keep yours and enjoy it!

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TLC,

 

I think it's different than an accoustic.  Not better, not worse, just different.  The concussion of the hammer to the string isn't transmitted back to the key in an accoustic; the hammer is kinda thrown at the string by the key press.  It resets once the string is struck.  The lever mechanism in the casio is more closely connected and the "hammer" doesn't reset, it stays relative to where the key is pressed with a little bit of play.  So you feel a little bounce that is transmitted directly to the key.  I find it unnoticeable unless I'm looking for it.

 

If you can, play other weighted digital pianos.  If you aren't happy or comfortable with an instrument, find one you like.

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  • 1 year later...

I know this is an old topic but i wanted to write this for new users of the PX5s who might be browsing over old forum topics. Like me right now.

 

I believe the action in the video is Casio's attempt at replicating the "escapement" feature found on acoustic grand pianos (not uprights). Here's a YouTube video that explains a grand piano's action. The escapement feature is shown best from about 2 minutes in to the video. 

 

 

Roland advertise this feature on their FP30 digital piano. I never even noticed it when i had my PX360 but i'm getting a PX5 tomorrow and wasn't aware that it had this feature because Casio didn't advertise it as a feature!

 

So while it's not 100% accurate, it's a very close attempt at replicating a grand piano's entire action.

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Another thing to remember when comparing the PX-5S action to an upright is that upright pianos' actions have very different internals from grands, due to the hammer of a grand falling back naturally due to gravity. In more tech-ese, their escapements are different.  The Casio's action is based on that of a grand, so it will never behave quite like an upright.

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