Jump to content

Adding a rhythm loop to a song sequence with my WK-7600


Recommended Posts

I created part of a song and I would like to add a rhythm pattern to it rather than using the metronome, but I don't know how to do that. Is there someplace in the manual that explains that? The only thing the manual has is the accompaniment section. I already know which preset rhythm pattern I want. (Do I have to create a "User Preset"?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DKNY

 

You might want to read through the following reply I made recently, in another thread on a similar topic, to get a better idea of what that "System Track", that Brad is referring to, is really all about.  If you are doing only "Easy Record" (Page E-68 of the WK-7600 manual), which is the "System Track" record that Brad is referring to, or only "Individual Track Record"  (Page E-72 of the WK-7600 manual), which is what you have done so far, then things are fairly simple, but if you want to do both, which is what you are wanting to do now, then you need a very good understanding of the Song Sequencer's operation in order to prevent loss of pre-recorded data and the waste of precious time and effort - to say nothing of the resulting frustration. This is especially true if you ultimately want to mix everything down to a Standard MIDI File (SMF), or if you need to "extract" System Track data to the other tracks for editing/correcting/quantizing/etc.  The thread that I am referring to discussed the Song Sequencer on the CTK-6200, but those functions are identical on all of the CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX models:  Also, do not confuse the Song Sequencer of any of the models with the Pattern Sequencer of the CTK/WK-7XXX models.  That is an entirely different circuit and subject for an entirely different purpose all-together.

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/12318-help-ctk-6200-how-to-export-song-sequencer-files/&do=findComment&comment=34174

 

In that thread, where I refer to Page E-65 in the CTK-6200 manual, substitute Page E-70 for the WK-7600 manual, and where I refer to Page E-104, substitute Page E-139.  The last paragraph of that reply does not deal with what you are attempting at the moment, but I recommend reading through it anyway for future reference.

 

Good luck !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

tnicoson, I just read your long discussion that you linked to. From what you have written, it's too convoluted to work for me. When I had the WK210 six years ago, the preset rhythm was just another patch that one could punch in on the regular 8-track sequencer and be controlled like any other sound. From what I am able to understand from your explanation, once I lay it down on a virtual track, I can't edit out measures where I don't want the rhythm, i.e., it's an all or nothing sound proposition. I don't understand why Casio complicated this.

 

If I'm incorrect in my assessment, tnicoson , please let me know. Otherwise, I greatly appreciate your having written that in the first place and then giving me a head's up as to the link.

 

Thank you.

 

Best regards,

 

DKNY

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DKNY

 

Your original post stated that you wanted to add a rhythm track to previously recorded data, while your most recent post indicates that you want to remove rhythm data.  Removing data is easy, but as you have already discovered, adding data is a little more complicated.  Once you have recorded a performance to the virtual "A" Tracks (the System Track) with the Easy Record mode, you have limited editing capabilities using the Song Sequencer's Edit mode - copy/merge/delete tracks, delete/insert measures, etc.  There is even an Event Editor (of sorts).  What you can NOT do at this stage is "record" anything new.  You can not add tracks and you can not re-record tracks to correct errors.  Any attempt to record new data erases ALL previously recorded data on ALL tracks.  If you want/need to do this type of advanced editing, you must first "extract" the previously recorded data from the virtual tracks (the System Track) to the real "B" (hardware) tracks, using the EXTRACT command.  Once that is done, you have full access to that data, the same as you had on your WK-210.  You just have 16 tracks to work with instead of just 6.  As far as removing data, if there is a Rhythm that you like, but it has, say, a string part that you do not care for, it is better to go into the MIXER panel before recording and just turn that part off and not record it to begin with.  That saves some editing after recording.  It is also possible to edit that Rhythm to remove the unwanted part and save it as a User Rhythm, so that you do not have to continually remove that part everytime you want to use that Rhythm.

 

The workflow for this would be:

 

Initial take of melody + rhythm with Easy record   >   simple edits   >   extract   >   advanced track-by-track edits

 

I also have a WK-225, which has the same simple editing of your WK-210, so I know how frustrating the CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX models can be.  When it comes to this topic, Casio has tried to provide the best of both worlds - simple easy recording with simple editing for those who want that and more advanced editing for those who want or need that, but when we try to bring the "easy" stuff over into the "real" world, things get a little more complicated.

 

Hope this helps to clear things up a bit.

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ted, you gave me a fantastic response. I really appreciate your taking the time to do that. And it confirms that I will not be able to use the Casio for what I wanted to (and this was even just for a preliminary purpose).

 

Thanks again very much!

 

Best regards,

 

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

David

 

If you are still monitoring this thread, can you give me enough detail on what you are trying to do so that I can see if there is a way to do it that is not so labor intensive ?  Most of the time, when we discuss topics like this, it sounds much worse than it really is, and once you have done it the first time, it becomes second nature very quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ted, I want to have a rhythm track (loop) on a song that I'm creating. In other words, I want a real rhythm going on under the song as one of the instrumental sounds that is recorded and is permanently part of the song. I distinctly remember that with the WK210, it was a matter of selecting the rhythm pattern and pushing a button for when you wanted it to start being recorded in the song. There doesn't seem to be a way to do that with the WK7600. It only seems to be possible when you are using it as an auto accompaniment for playing live.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK David !

 

I have it, but it is going to take me some time to get it all written up for you.  What we will be doing is most certainly not in the manual, so for this, we have to write our own.  Not to worry, though.  I am going to give you a recording set up that you only have to do once, then we are going to save it to a registration for a one or two button recall.  That also saves you having to remember all the set up steps.  Right now, I need to get some shut-eye.  I have several appointments this afternoon, so check back later this evening.

 

Ted

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry David, I had some belated storm damage to deal with when I got home yesterday afternoon.  A huge tree limb had fallen in front of my satellite dish and was blocking its signal path, so  had to deal with that to get my internet connectivity back.  Nothing like fixing your internet connection with a chain saw.  Really high tech stuff here !  Anyway, got a good night's sleep last night and getting back to our project now.

 

Ted

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, David - I think we are ready to start on this.  In order to keep a single post from getting too long, I am going to tell you, in this post, what we are going to do, and where possible, why we are doing it.  In my next post, I will tell you, step-by-step, how to do it.  At first, I did not understand what you were trying to do, because of semantics.  You originally stated that you were trying to lay down a RHYTHM track.  These are ARRANGER keyboards, and to them a "RHYTHM" is a specific thing, and to me, as a long time ARRANGER keyboard player, "RHYTHM" has come to mean the same thing.  On an ARRANGER keyboard a "RHYTHM" is a complete package, including a drum track, a bass track,  and several melodic instrument chord tracks.  I finally realized that by "RHYTHM" track, you meant simply a drum track.  I apologize for the misunderstanding.  Once I realized that, things got a lot simpler.

 

Now, you were, at least, partially correct about your recollection of the WK-210.  If you left the Auto-accompaniment turned OFF, you could press the START/STOP button, and you would get just a drum track in the selected Rhythm's style.  In real-time play you could use the START/STOP button to toggle the drum track on and off as you played.  In that respect, the WK-210 and the WK-7600 are the same, but once we turn on the recorder, we run into a big difference.  On the WK-210 (actually, all of the WK-2XX models), once you turned on the recorder (with Auto-accompaniment turned OFF), you could use the START/STOP button to start the drum track and the recorder.  On the WK-7600, once you turn on the recorder, the START/STOP button will no longer start the drum track, and recording start is triggered by playing the keys.  Now, I got the impression that you remembered being able to use the WK-210's START/STOP button during the recording process to toggle the drum track on and off, just like in real-time play, but that is not correct.  In that respect, the WK-210 is just like the WK-7600.  If you press the START/STOP button during the recording process, it stops not only the drum track, but the recorder, as well.  So you could not use it, while recording, as a drum track toggle.  On the WK-7600, we can use the MIXER to toggle the drum track on and off while recording, but to do that, we have to SELECT the drum track in the MIXER.  The problem with that is, whatever track is SELECTED in the MIXER, is what the keys play.  If we select the drum track to toggle it, the keys now play the drum sounds.  Not very melodic !  So, that is what we are about here - to set up something on the WK-7600 that will make it operate like the WK-210 for what you are trying to do, but that set up procedure gets a bit intricate, so we are going to save it to a Registration for simple, fast recall on future recording sessions.  As I was experimenting with this, I had to keep powering the keyboard off and on, so that I would know where I was starting from.  That is not good for the circuits or the power button, so we will also create a "power-on reset" Registration that you can use to quickly reset everything without actually having to power the keyboard off and back on if you make an error or just get distracted and lose track of where you are at.  I am going to use Registration 16-5 as the reset and Registration 16-6 as the recording set-up.  I chose these, because they are at the top end of the banks, where they are less likely to get overwritten, and because it will be easier to remember where they are located.  So if you have anything already stored there, you will need to relocate it to somewhere else, at least for now.  OK, that is it for this post.  Next post starts the how-to's.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

David

 


That being the case, maybe we need more clarification before we go any further.

 

When you say you want to add a "rhythm" track, do you mean just a drum track, or do you mean complete accompaniment with drums, strings, guitars, brass, etc ?  Maybe I am still not understanding what it is you are trying to do.

 

I will be awaiting your reply.  BTW David - from your earlier comments, maybe I need to say:

 

THIS is what I did for the last 10 of my 25 years with AT&T, and after I took their early buy-out, THIS is what I did for ALL 15 of my years with IBM (only with computers instead of music keyboards, but they're pretty much the same thing anymore).  So, don't worry about the time I spend doing THIS.  THIS is WHAT I do.  THIS is WHO I am. I LOVE doing THIS.  THIS kind of gives me a reason for being !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

On July 14, 2016 DKNY said:

 

tnicoson, I just read your long discussion that you linked to. From what you have written, it's too convoluted to work for me.

 

Well, David.  I thought that if I approached this from a different angle, I could simplify it to where it would be a useable procedure for you, but no matter how I approach it, by the time I cover all the bases, and get everything done that needs to be done, it ends up being every bit as convoluted as what you originally found unuseable.  The problem is the way the WK-7600 treats the drum track.  The WK-210 (and my WK-225) treat it as being separate from the rest of the accompaniment, so you have control over it alone, while the WK-7600 treats the drum track as an integral part of the accompaniment.  It is doable.  I have done it, and I am sure there are other members here who do it as a matter of course, but it requires a more complicated process than what you are looking for.  I apologize for stringing you along on this, but I still think it was worth the try, and I am willing to continue, if you so desire, but I thought I needed to forewarn you that what I am coming up with is certainly no easy three step procedure.  You had asked in your original post if you needed to create a "preset".  That might be a possibility - either a User Rhythm or a Music Preset.  I will be exploring that over the next couple of days here, but with what I keep running into, I do not want to make any more promises at this stage.

 

BUT . . . THEN . . . There is always another option that WILL work.  COLLABORATION !  You tell me what Rhythm style, tempo, and number of measures you want, and I will run off a "boiler plate" drum track on my WK-7500 and attach it to a post here as a .CMS Song Sequnecer file for you to import into your WK-7600 and add your own tracks to.  Of course, this assumes that my WK-7500 has the same Rhythm as your WK-7600, but even that can be dealt with, if necessary.  What I would send you would use just a "real" B Track, not part of that accursed "System" Track, which ia a major part of what has kept getting in our way up to this point.  I really should not use the word "accursed", as that System Track does allow Casio to ecnonmically offer a unit with a 32 track sequencer in what would otherwise be just a 16 track unit, but it does complicate things for the casual user who wants to go beyond the most rudimentary uses of the song recorder.  Just some thoughts for you to ponder !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Ted. That's very thoughtful of you, but it's not necessary. Unless I could have used the WK-7600 with the ease that I was able to use the WK210 as far as adding a rhythm track, it's not worth it. Since this is a public forum, I don't want to go into detail about what my entire music plans were. If you would like to know—which you are certainly entitled to know—then just email me at 43stinky51@gmail.com and I will be more than happy to respond and tell you in detail what is going on.

 

Thanks again for all of your help and support.

 

Best regards,

 

David

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Butes

 

The point I was trying to make to DKNY, above, is that you can do what you want with the WK-7600, as long as you keep in mind that it is, first and foremost, an Arranger Workstation - a "One-Man-Bander".  The default assmuption is that you want to play a one or two (layered) part melody line with your right hand as you play chords with your left hand to control a full Auto-accompaniment Rhythm, and if there is any recording to be done, that that is what is to be recorded, in a single pass.  That is the "Easy Record" mode, and the Song Sequencer gives preference to it, since it is a major selling feature of the keyboard.  What you want to do does not exactly fit this scenario.  You can do it, but the Auto-accompaniment features - the "One-Man-Bander" stuff - will tend to get in your way.  You need to be aware of this so that you do not stumble over it and end up losing recorded data.  This is opposed to the "straight forward" sequencer designs of non-Arranger workstations like the Roland Fantoms, or their more recent FA-06/08 models, or the Yamaha Motif models, or their more recent MOFX-6/8 models.  With those, you can start by simply "laying down" a drum track and going from there.  They have no Auto-accompaniment ("One-Man-Bander") features to get in your way.  At this point, I would strongly suggest, if you have not already done so, that you read this thread in its entirety, as well as the entire thread referenced in the link posted above, so that you fully understand the function of the Song Sequencer's 16 "real" ("B") tracks, and the make-up of that 17th "System" track with its 16 "virtual" ( "A") tracks, and the purpose of each.

 

You want to record a drum track that is part of an existing Auto-accompaniment Rhythm.  By design, Accompaniments, or parts thereof, can only be recorded to the System Track - in this case, Track A10, to be specific.  Since Pop-2 is not a factory preset Rhythm, I assume you have it loaded into User Rhythm memory.  You would need to set up the keyboard to play/record (Easy Record) that Rhythm, and go into the Mixer and turn off all parts, but the drum track.  Then record that drum track, including any fills or Normal / Variation pattern switches, for the length of measures of your song.  Once that recording is complete, nothing else can be added to the System Track - that is, nothing can be added to ANY of the "A" tracks, or it will result in erasure of your previously recorded drum track.  This is the major place where Auto-accompaniment recording features tend to get in your way.  By the way, this is not just Casio.  Yamaha and Roland arrangers are very similar.  However, you are free to add whatever you like to any of the "real" ("B") tracks with the individual track recording method, but as long as that drum track is on the System ("A-10") Track, it tends to be somewhat vulnerable.  For safety's sake, I normally "extract" its data to Track "B-10" ASAP after recording.  Once that is done, you no longer have to deal with the "A" Track Auto-accompaniment pit-falls, and can deal soley with the "real" hardware "B" Tracks - which is like dealing with any other 16 track straight forward onboard sequencer.  By comparison, if you wanted to "play" your own drum track from the keyboard, you could do that directly to one of the "real" ("B") Tracks and not fool with the Auto-accompaniment stuff at all.

 

Hope this helps !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.