Casio PX-160 noisy key on brand new piano ?

[Misiak]

Hi guys, I've just bought this piano brand new from Thomann (really great shop to buy music instruments) but don't know what to think. I don't have many experiences with digital pianos and I've learned that Casio keyboards are generally more noisy comparing with Yamaha and I'm fine with that but one of the keys is extremely clunky on back stroke. What is even worse it is E4 key. Sounds like keyboard or hammer is touching some plastics when returning to it's default position. Like there is no damping on that place. There is another one which is a bit more noisy than rest but not as bad at this one. The rest of the keyboard is OK. I've made a video of that so what do you guys think ? Return and replace ? What are the odds to get another one with the same issue ? It's kind of expensive to send back to Germany. I'm not sure if it's a defect or not. Is this rare thing or normal for Casio keyboards ? The noise is pretty annoying during play and I can hear it even with headphones. Also it's not pleasant once the finger leave the key. Everything works flawlessly but this is pretty distracting. Thanks for your opinions...

 

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

Wow that is certainly not typical for any Privia I've played. It sounds like there is no felt bumper there at all. I'm not thrilled with how the adjacent keys sound either. Even my used older PX575 didn't sound like this. Are you sure this is new? If it is and your post says so, there is no way this is right. Send it right back and no, I don't think any Casio piano or any other keyboard should sound like this. It sounds like it is directly hitting the bare plastic frame inside. If you are interested in checking for yourself read my posts about my PX350 with my pics. I re-did the felt strips in mine but it had been played as a floor model and it was priced accordingly. Even then it sounded nothing like this. Definitely sounds like a defect.

[Misiak]

Thx for reply. Yes, it was sealed so it's definitely brand new. There was a tape over keys as well. Every stuff in original package. They've had also B stock item (wonder why it was returned, maybe because the same issue) but I've intentionally not bought that just to prevent such issues  I think I really got a lemon. Maybe it was a bad batch but then Casio quality control sucks badly. I can't imagine all Casio keyboards are like this. I really hope not. So also adjacent keys does not sound good to you ? There are bit noisy as well in my opinion but at least I can feel dampening and I could live with that. But this one E4 is really crazy, it's like you said maybe there is no dampening at all. I will try to make other video of all keys and you may judge. There is also other keyboard (I think A7, not sure) which is similar to noisy E4 but far not so bad. 

 

Yeah, I think it would be fixable and I saw you pictures - nice work, but this is brand new product with 3 year warranty and I don't want to void it. I will write Thomann what's their opinion and hopefully they will agree it's a fault and send a courier for replacement.   

[Misiak]

So here I made a video to test the noise of all keys. I've found that I have actually 2 problematic keys. What do you think? I'm a bit worried that a replacement will suffer from same issue but probably with another keys  What do you think ? Horrible in my opinion...

 

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

No doubt this is not normal operation noise. And no I would not try to repair this yourself. It's new and repair or replacement should be the way to go. I haven't played a PX160 so couldn't be sure but I think the 2 keys may be broken inside. Definitely return it. Too bad when we buy online there is no way to test out keys before we take them home. And the return key noise you hear on most keys may be as good as it gets out of the box. As you might have seen in my pictures there are felt cushions above and below the keys to quiet the sound on the downstroke and upstroke. And also to prevent unneeded vibration causing further damage over time. I added extra cushioning strictly for my own personal playing style. 

 

 

[Misiak]

Yep, felt cushions would be definitely way to go if the product is out of warranty. I would definitely do that as well to reduce the noise. Thx for your opinion, I've already sent an email to Thomann and waiting what they say about it. I really believe this is not common with new privia 160 line and eventually the replacement will be without this noise or maybe I get another lemon again with my luck  I saw Yamaha P155 at friend of mine and the noise was much better. Also keyboard felt much more sturdy. This looks like a cheapo product while it's quiet expensive. Also noticed that headphones signal is pretty weak. It's not loud enough for me at all. And it does not matter if I use 250ohms bayers or cheap plugs.

[sslyutov]

I have PX-360. Noise level is my major complain. 
For brand new your E and A are out of normal(expected) level. However after using my PX for 8 month middle 4 octaves have pretty much the same mechanical sound. That is just how it is made. About cushion - be carrifull with it, since extra cushion may impact a quickness.
Keys noiseness is one of the reason why I would not buy this keyboard again. 

Did you solve the problem. If this is a brand new keyboard I think you still should be able to return it for a full refund.
In most musical stores we have at least 30 days money back ( sometimes 60 days but not for all items ).

[Misiak]

Yeah, I've already sent it back and ordered Roland FP-30BK instead. I will get it tomorrow so I'm very curios on keys action and overall quality. Only regret I did not find it sooner. I could save myself lot of time and hassle. Needless to say, Roland is much more fun for the money.

 

But recently I was thinking about the weight. Well, it is really a benefit as marketed ? If we realize that the piano itself is appx. 3 kg lighter than competence with +/- same dimensions and materials used which is 1/4 of the overall weight we should ask the question where these 3 kilograms lost ? It's not chassis or electronics but you can guess what.... Here is a rule in my opinion - the heavier product the chance of better build quality.

 

This is what I was afraid of... That it become worse and worse over the time if it's like that on brand new product. But as I said, maybe I had a really bad luck with this one but I'm definitely done with Casio.

[sslyutov]

Congrads!  You have SuperNatural now! PHA-4 supposes to provide close keys feel (if not the same).
Let us know your experience.
Talking about heavier better. Kawa (like MP7 MP11)i is much heavier but I think that is so because the body made out of metal.

FP-30 is in the same class as PX-160 (for my taste). They both are missing direct MIDI which is crucial for usage with external hardware.
That's why I picked PX-360. PX-360 is a monster in a good way. It has very decent sound quality. The best of all MIDI recorder(sequencer) which is stronger even then on MOXF or FA (I am talking only about recording functionality, not editing) However I always look for better options(higher sound quality). Have to admit current marker is lame(it can change at any moment). Release date of top products is 2 years old at the best. Privia actually provides one of the most recent releases available on the market. 
FP-30 is newer than PX series by a half of a year.
Hopefully Roland does not surrender yet its position. It has super strong reputation.

If you will like your new piano who know my next move could towards Roland .;)

[Misiak]

Thx. Sure I wasn't talking about metal - plastic chassis. FP-30/PX160 is similar plastics construction but Roland is 3kg heavier. It must reflect somewhere. I think it's mechanics. Yeah, it has no true midi but for me it's not so important as I'm only beginner and don't plan to go away with my piano any soon  With USB midi it's very convenient to connect to PC and the Bluetooth connection is great advantage.

 

But a brief update as I haven't had much time to test so far. The piano arrived 2 hours ago. The box is much more robust and obviously heavier than Casio's. Instrument feels much better build quality and the key action is night and day difference. No noisy and clunky keys whatsoever. They feel is great. It's also louder than Casio but headphone output is similar to PX160. I would like to have louder output but tested only with 250 ohms Bayers. Think I need to buy amplifier or connect it to my Sound Blaster Z card. I had to update newest bios to make it working with Piano Partner 2 and everything works fine now.

 

What I've noticed that trebles are maybe not so pronounced as with Casio, I think it's because there are no treble speakers in front of piano. Need to try with headphones. But I still need to play with Brilliance and overall piano functions. But with the keyboard I'm very happy so far. I will keep you posted once I get more familiar with it.

[sslyutov]

Very fast!

Did you get a triple pedal unit?

Sustain pedal, does it have a progressive application or it is an ON/OFF switch?

How do you like sympathetic resonance?

 

I do not know whether you use any DAW. 

In case if you do - While playing back from DAW to FP - how many MIDI ports you can use( who many ports FP exposes to the DAW application )?

Could you drop some video to hear the noise level. That would just great.

 

I do not see a MIDI recorder(sequencer) on FP, could you please confirm whether it is so or not ( for me it is absolutely crucial function for making quality editing of recordings )?

 

 

[Misiak]

Yeah I bought with KPD-70-BK pedal and KSC-70-BK stand. Looks great. Also piano with this stand is higher now which is great because I'm pretty tall (190cm). Well, as I said I'm only a beginner so I didn't taste sustain and sympathetic resonance much now. What should I look for to check ? Sustain I can check but have no idea about this resonance thing :) And how to check noise level ?

[sslyutov]

I though  you could share the same kind of video(as you published above) so everyone could hear mechanical noise of keys on FP.

Sympathetic resonance is easy to test - hold down some key on lower octave fro instance C2 them play C3( press and release the key). 

As a result you should be able to hear very soft sound of C2.

In order hear the difference compare what you hear while playing only C3.

 

On PX -360, 560(I think other models provides the same option)  you can adjust the level of sympathetic resonance.

The settings allow to overdo the effect so it turns into "a distortion". 

I discovered that my settings is ~75%.

 

I am pretty sure Roland widely supports this feature.

You probably can look at description of SuperNatural for Piano. It can have nice surprises

[Misiak]

Ah, this noise you mean. Sure, I will do that. It's much more less than Casio. I will ask my wife if she can hear it in the next room tomorrow

 

I've tested the sustain pedal and it is progressive ;-) But I didn't test pedal which comes with piano, this is maybe on/off only. I lack trebles a bit on grand piano sounds. It's a bit dull for me but I'm "treble" guy so maybe that's the problem. Some EQ would be handy

[sslyutov]

I am glad to hear that at least some pianos are better in terms of the subject than Casio.

[sslyutov]

Funny, but I play now on Roland.

Privia serves as a sound module.

The sound quality of grand piano on PX is unbeatable.

SP-33 connected to PX  works great in such configuration as well.
Noise level of keyboard on Roland incomparably lower.

It is fun to play on PX since the keys on it are faster, but for most of time Roland is well sufficient.

 

[ivs999]

On 11.08.2016 at 3:14 PM, Jokeyman123 said:

 read my posts about my PX350 with my pics. I re-did the felt strips in mine but it had been played as a floor model

Hello, it is interesting for me, can you give links to read and watch this your job? Thanks.

[Jokeyman123]

i have quite a few-no videos only still pics......

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/6597-px-350-keyboard-mod-success-at-last/

 

Still have the px350, playing it regularly, seems to be holding up OK so far.

 

[ivs999]

Jokeyman123

Thank you for link. I have new (2 weeks) PX-160. From description of your work, it is not simple, and responsible.

I have one question.

Let it be two noises: 1. when key goes down 2. when key goes back (up).

If I don't worry about №2, and want only reduse noise when key goes down (knock, clatter) - can it be easier, and  be decided with only felt, for example from such like used in  footwear insole, or similar ?

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

Key down noise is harder to fix, because the felt strip that the fulcrum hits when you press the key down is the upper strip and is very hard to get to. I use the type of felt that is used for weatherstripping-not rubber or plastic, it must be felt material to effectively take the shock of the thin metal hammer hitting upwards when you strike the key down-the hammer making the noises moves opposite the key action-it's a "lever" mechanism and looks like it's made with steel for the weight and rigidity. It's also rather thin where it strikes the felt, and this is the reason the factory felts get compressed over time. It's hitting the same very narrow area of the felt for each key hammer.

 

The only way i was able to get the long piece of felt in place under the key hammers without taking apart every single key-2hich I recall is impossible anyway-is to cut a strip the entire length of the keyboard-all 88 keys-with the material you will use to make the felt strip adhere to the old strip-this was the most difficult part-and thread it through from one end of the keybed to the other. I used a stiff thin rod of wood attached to the end of my felt (you could also use a long piece of metal coat-hanger wire)-and long enough so the other end would come through the opposite part of the keybed. Then I pulled it through carefully until it was in position all alon every key-not easy! Think like threading a giant wooden needle with a giant strip of felt attached directly through the keybed-then compress this strip strip tightly against the old strip. Once it is in place if your adhesive is good enough, it will stay in position.

 

I did not attempt to remove the old factory installed felt as I though this would be too destructive, and then the amount of new felt i'd have to use to replace the old stuff completely might still not be enough, since the factory felt by itself didn't seem to hold up too well in the first place. If you are not experienced with keyboard repairs, assembly and disassembly I would recommend you get someone who is to do this for you. i have done alot of this kind of work before the Casio projects, with many different keyboards-Yamahas, Korgs, Kurzweils and Generalmusic so was pretty familiar with larger-scale projects like this already. I certainly wouldn't have done this if i hadn't already logged alot of hours with technical repairs and mods. Definitely do not do this if your keys are still under warranty or you fear ruining your instrument.  Just a word to the wise!

[ivs999]

Ok, well, I will think and probably hesitate ... if I find any ideas or questions, will write,  thanks again.

 

As regards demphing materials, I read on our forum about "сукно" (rus.lang.), this is smooth woolen cloth, applying for ex. in military warm clothing, and in acoustic pianos.

I think it is more hard and durable than felt, but good dempher too.