Song Sequencer & Pattern Editor Questions

[Nytician]

Hello!

 

Been mucking around with my keyboard, watching YouTube and lurking here but finally decided it's best to join this community haha. It appears the 7200 CTK keyboard I own is very capable but not well supported from Casio itself  anyone read the 'manual' hah.

 

So my plan is to design dancy bass hunter style music and create songs fully with the keyboard alone using the inbuilt tools. With the song sequencer can I import patterns and loop  them somehow? I figured I could when I read the events section in the manual but it doesn't seem to actually give me the option on the board. Don't know if that makes sense?

 

That aside how capable is the keyboard for my goals of making trance / house type stuff? The kicks and synths sound good, just wandering if it's possible to design (program?) them properly?

 

Looking forward to any of your responses and appreciate your time!

[- T -]

With the CTK-7200, you should be able to import any compatible Rhythm ("style") file and use the Pattern Sequencer to edit it to your liking, but you can not directly import generic MIDI phrases or loops, and there is no separate "pattern" file.  The Pattern Sequencer saves it output to the Casio standard User Rhythm  file in the AC7 Rhythm file format  It is possible to use the Rhythm Converter module in the old Casio IDES-4 Data Manager Software (for WK-3300 / WK-3800 / WK-8000) to convert generic MIDI phrases into the old CKF file format Rhythm files.  The CTK-7200 can then import those and convert them to the new AC7 format, but the preparation of the MIDI phrase with external DAW software to demark the various rhythm sections (Intro, Mains, Fills, Endings) prior to conversion can get a bit tedious and time consuming, and often produces surprising and/or undesireable results.  Here are several links on this forum that discuss this process in some detail:

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/12371-midi-tracks/&do=findComment&comment=34229

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/12070-reggae-drum-tracks-from-midi-files-for-7600/&do=findComment&comment=32902

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/8975-loading-an-edited-rhythm-part-from-an-external-midi-to-the-ctk7200-keyboard/&do=findComment&comment=27931

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/6839-converting-midi-file-to-cms-file-not-cm2/&do=findComment&comment=20775

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/4326-to-mike-martin-wish-list-for-future-casio-wk-workstation-keyboard/&do=findComment&comment=12124

 

 

If you are interested in trying this, the IDES-4 Software can be downloaded for free from:

 

http://music.casio.com/e/data_ex4/before.html#software    ( Click on the link:  ides40-c.exe )

 

Click on the Download button under "English Manual for Application" on that same webpage to download the IDES-4 User's Guide.

 

 

[Nytician]

Thanks for your response!

 

I think I might've misexpained my intentions though.

 

Long story short, I have just a CTK 7220 and want to use the inbuilt tools to create music (dance songs) with the synths and drums that come with the keyboard. Im just wandering if I should be using the pattern sequencer or the song sequencer to achieve this? Can I for example create a pattern and then use it in the song sequencer? (All from within the keyboard itself I mean?)

 

Thanks again,

 

Sean.

[- T -]

Sean

 

Yes !  You can use the Pattern Sequencer to create new User Rhythms from scratch or to modify existing presets or downloaded after market rhythm files to your own liking and then use that "new" User Rhythm as an Auto-accompaniment to your right hand part(s) as you record the entire performance with the Song Sequencer.  If you do not want an Auto-accompaniment, that is to say - you just want to record a two handed piano, or EP, or organ, or maybe even a split keyboard piano/bass performance, you would only need the Song Sequencer for that.  The same applies if you just want a preset Auto-accompaniment rhythm with your right hand part(s).  You would just need the Song Sequencer for that.  The Pattern Sequencer is just for creating or modifying rhythms.  Once the rhythm is created or modified, you switch to the Song Sequencer to record a performance that uses that rhythm.  When the output of the Pattern Sequencer is "saved", it is saved to a "User Rhythm, not to a "pattern".  There are no pattern files.  Patterns only exist within the Pattern Sequencer as it is being used.  Once that data is "saved", the "patterns" get saved into a User Rhythm.

 

Here is a link to a tutorial video of Mike Martin creating a User Rhythm with the CTK-7000 / WK-7500 Pattern Sequencer.  The process would be the same on the CTK-7220.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVdFRBmNID4

 

When Mike finishes his User Rhythm, he plays a right hand part along with it, but he could just as well have recorded that performance as a song with the Song Sequencer.  I know, throughout that video he keeps using the term "pattern" rather loosely to describe what he is doing, but once he saves what he calls a "pattern", it really isn't.  You wont find any button on the keyboard or Function menu item labeled "Patterns" for calling them up and using them.  I don't know how many times, in the past few years, I have had to answer the question "Where do I find my "patterns" that I have created ?  Well, you won't - not as "patterns", at least.  They are saved under button "F" as "User Rhythms".  This is to differentiate between these keyboards and the XW synths that DO save their patterns as discrete pattern files, and you call them back up as pattern files.

 

 

 

[Nytician]

Ahhh interesting okay thanks!

 

So I can create my songs like that which is cool.

 

Do you know much about events? Like can I manually line up user rhythms to play after each other? Or in fact program an entire song note by note maybe? Would that just be the song sequencer instead?

 

Thanks for all your help!

[- T -]

Sean

 

Your most recent question brings up why I have been stressing the difference in the terms "pattern" and "User Rhythm" when discussing the Pattern Sequencer in the CTK/WK models.  I have already stated that the Pattern Sequencer in the XW synths saves its "patterns" in discrete "pattern files", and allows you to "string " them together into "phrases", and "phrases" together into "songs", but the Pattern Sequencer in the CTK/WK models does not work that way.  It will allow you to combine "parts" of different User Rhythms together into a "new" User Rhythem, but the overall "length" of that User Rhythm remains to same.  That is, it will not allow you to combine two or more User Rhythms together into one "long" User Rhythm.  So, misuse of the term "Pattern", as it applies to the CTK/WK Pattern Sequencer, can give the wrong impression about its capabilities.  There are a couple of ways to "string" User Rhythms together "manually", but we will come back to that in a bit.  For the moment, I want to get to your other questions about "Step Editing".  YES !  The Song Sequencer will allow you to do TWO different types of Step Editing.  First, it will allow you to input notes and rests, note by note and rest by rest, controlling note pitch, length, velocity (volume), etc as you go.  This is exactly the type of Step Editing you were describing in your question, but the CTK/WK Song Sequencer allows a second type of Step Editing.  It will also allow you to enter CHORD data for controlling the left hand Auto-accompaniment part on a Step basis.  So, you could Step Edit (enter) a complete song - both the left hand chord parts plus the right hand melody parts without ever playing a single note in "real-time".  This would get a bit tedious, but it can be done.  And now, even better news!  The Pattern Sequencer also has a Step Editor, so you can enter or edit parts in User Rhythms on a Step basis, if you like.  At this point, I would recommend that you read through the first couple of pages on each the Song Sequencer and the Pattern Sequencer in the manual (if you have not already done so) to become familiar with their capabilities.  I would not go into the "how-to" sections, until you are ready to perform that particular item.  For now, just become familiar with what all you can do with them.

 

Now, back to your question on "stringing" User Rhythms together in a given song.  The first, and simplest, way is to locate the User Rhythms, that you want to use, sequentially in User Rhythm memory - say, User Rhythm slots F:001 through F:005 and then leave the keyboard in Rhythm Selection Mode (as opposed to Tone Selection Mode) when you start the Rhythm.  As your Auto-accompaniment Rhythm is running, each time you press the + (PLUS) button, your Rhythm will increment to the next one, or if you press the - (MINUS) button, it will decrement to the previous Rhythm.  The advantage to this is that you do not need to be "spot on" with your timing.  You can switch any time during the current measure, and the change will not take effect until the start of the next measure.  Sort of a real-time "quantization" of your Rhythm changes.  The disadvantage to this is that you can not change Rhythms in the middle of a measure, as some folks are want to do.  You can change CHORDS in the middle of a measure, but not RHYTHMS.  You can also do Rhythm changes as set-up Registrations within a given Registration Bank.  You can have up to six changes in a given Bank.  One advantage to this is that you can change not only the Rhythm, but the tone, the mix volumes, and a host of other items with a Registration change.  The timing remains as before.  If you change Registrations in the middle of a measure, the Rhythm will not change until the start of the next measure, BUT if the Registrations include Tone or Volume, etc changes, those changes will take effect IMMEDIATELY, so you have to keep that in mind, when using this method. The other, and probably major, advantage to this method is that you can randomly select from among the six possible changes, in any order, with the touch of a single button - as long as you remember which Rhythm or set-up is assigned to which Registration button.

 

OK !  I think I have covered everything, for now.

 

Good luck and have fun !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

[Nytician]

Hah wow very informative thanks! I think I understand ;). Yes step sequencing is exactly what Inwant and from the sounds of it I will be doing all of that in the song sequencer track by track note by note which is fine. Just didn't want to miss a trick if there was one! Patterns well I suppose will be handy for live playing than just composing but still useful to know.

 

Thanks for your informative help it's really great!

 

Im sure I'll be back with more questions but I'll muck around and check those links so thanks.

 

Sean.

[- T -]

Sean

 

If you are going to be using the CTK-7220 primarily for composing, and have little or no interest in Auto-accompaniment, then you need to read through the following thread and all of the other threads referenced in it, but particularly my very final replay to "Butes", in order to avoid endless frustration.  This thread deals with using the WK-7600 for composing, but the info discussed in it applies to all of the newer CTK / WK models:

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/12391-adding-a-rhythm-loop-to-a-song-sequence-with-my-wk-7600/

 

Good luck !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

[Nytician]

Right! Thanks again, just read that long post, makes sense I think.

 

Long story short I suppose if Im manually entering each note etc, its better to use all of the B tracks and ignore the system track, and vice versa if I want to record say a piece I've learned directly I just ignore the b tracks.

 

Listening through the keyboard should be fine when put on SD card but if I want to transfer and convert on PC, best to manually record the sound and go from there correct?

 

Thanks,

 

Sean.

[- T -]

Sean

 

You are correct.  It is best to do your step sequencing to the "B" Tracks, but when it comes to recording live play, you have a choice, up to a point.  You can record live play to either the "A" or the "B" Tracks, unless you want to record anything to do with Auto-accompaniment, even just a drum track.  Those recordings MUST be done to the "A" Tracks, which is the sole purpose of the "A" Tracks - to record anything to do with Auto-accompaniment (the One-Man-Bander stuff).  So, if any part of your performance uses Auto-accompaniment, it can ONLY be recorded to the "A" Tracks.  No part of the Auto-accompaniment can be directly recorded to the "B" Tracks, but after recording to the "A" Tracks, that data can be manually transferred (extracted) to the "B" Tracks for more in depth editing than "A" Track editing allows.  That is why I recommend that, if you are recording a performance that uses no part of Auto-accompaniment, you are best off  making it directly to the "B" Tracks, so that the Auto-accompaniment limitaions of the "A" Tracks does not get in the way of your work flow.

 

Maybe a simpler way to put this is: The CTK/WK Song Sequencer "A" Tracks (AKA the System Track) are solely for recording the One-Man-Bander features of the typical Arranger Workstation, while the "B" Tracks provide the straight forward features of the standard 16 track linear sequencer of the typical non-Arranger Workstation.