Jump to content

Casio WK 3200 converting SMF 1 to SMF0


Lurch

Recommended Posts

Hello All,

This was probably asked about many times before, but I can't find anything on it.

 

  How do you convert SMF 1 files to SMF 0?

 

 I have had  the older WK 3200 for years and not about to part with it.  I am just now being made aware of midi and want to load mid files from my pc that I have created directly into the keyboard via usb/midi cable and play them.  The manual for the IDES 3 and 4 both mention about a converter, but I can't find a direct reference to it in the regular manual.

my keyboard uses the Zoo file extension for non midi files.

Any help would be appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Tnicoson,

 

Actually, for the first time ever, I recently discovered the Mid 0 format selection in the Save As box in Reaper. But I just did the save as mid 0 then put it on the keyboard's SD card and loaded it. it appeared to recognize it but when I pressed play, I got the "wrong Dat" error. I am using a 64 bit machine. Maybe i'll try to install Reaper on an old 32bit XP machine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yeah, just installed both Reaper and Ntrack on my xp machine and even though both programs clearly show option to save as SMF 0, the saved file just brings the "Err Wrong Data" . so, your probably right about 64 or 32 bit being able to handle it.  I don't know much about the structure of midi files, so maybe I'm just missing something. So far, I'm at a loss. I'll play with it some more tomorrow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

ok, so I found one website so far that has a free midi converter; but everything on it is disabled except the converter from mid 1 to mid 0. But for me that still doesn't make the files playable.

 

http://www.gnmidi.com/gnfreeen.htm

 

 

 

Then they have the pay/demo version which has dozens of functions. But even on this, the converter just didn't work either. However, the only way I got the files to work was I used the "check and repair" function, which creates a "Repaired" copy. It removes data from the file and the file size is reduced by about 1000 bytes.The repaired copy works and the files will play. So there must be certain aspects of the midi file, which have to be added/subtracted fixed, etc for the old Casio's to be able to read it even though it's saved as mid 0.

 

http://www.gnmidi.com/gnmidien.htm

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Tnocoson,

 

All 4 of the files you attached played perfectly on my SD card in the WK3200.  I'm at a loss. 

When converting in ntrack, it's just

Import midi (load the 2 files)

Export Midi

Save as (name)

file type mid 0

save to SD card

That's the only options available. and I get Err Wrong dat

 

In Reaper

Insert media file

load the 2 files

export project media

Menu comes up with much more options but I just leave it as default with check box for (Mid 0 file)

save to SD card

I get Err Wrong dat

 

I attached some screenshots of how Reaper does it. the 2nd file are the export options. The first picture is the midi track controls which I found. I change the channel to 3 for "L" and 4 for "R" file but leave the rest.  I have also changed nothing in the track controls and still get the err wrong dat.

 

 

Reaper Menu EM.jpg

Reaper Menu.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Tnicoson,

 

Looks like I'm going to have to do a lot of reading/research. I downloaded the Midi Formatter that you suggested and it won't even process the files. just gives an error and closes.  I'll try generating a midi file by playing my keyboard into ntrack and see if it will make a readable SMF 0. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that those BONE_ files were made by someone else on a older version of Ntrack. Then I'm trying to convert it on my newer version.

 

I have .net frame.  At least I know that GNMIDI program will work, if I repair the file first.  I haven't even found a similar problem like this anywhere else on the internet.

 

later

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Tnicoson,

I did a simple midi test. I used the WK-3200 to make a 4 note midi drum track in ntrack and exported it as an smf0 midi file.  I loaded the exported file into the WK-3200 and of course it couldn't read it. So I opened it up in GNMidi and had it converted to a CSV type file which I opened in excel. I then used GNMidi to "repair" the exported file. GNmidi, repaired it and made a copy of the repaired file. The repaired file was loaded into the WK-3200 and of course the keyboard could play it just fine. So I had GNMidi convert the "Repaired" Midi file to a CSV file, as well. I opened both up in Excel and both files are nearly identical.  There are only (3) differences.

 

-The "Repaired file had a "Text" line event added which  looked like  this

 

{GNMIDI}Generated by  GNMIDI demo (http://www.gnmidi.com)10;

 

 

-The Original SMF0 (non readable) file had (2) "Controller Values" listed as 255 and 255.  

 

GNmidi changed both of those values to 127. The rest of the file entries were identical.

 

Below is a portion of the Excel spreadsheet entries illustrating what happened.

 

Original midi file exported in Ntrack as a SMF0 but still couldn't be read:

 

   Event                   Unit          Time        Track     Channel                                                                                                          Controller NR          Controller Value

Controller

0 0 1 10             7 127
Controller 0 0 1 10             93 255
Controller 0 0 1 10             91 255
Controller 0 0 1 10             10

63

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The second column looks like velocity values,not cc messages but could also be "status" messages.  CC 7 is volume, 93 and 91 are I seem to remember for DSP depth and 10 I think is pan, if your first column is CC and not something else.  Now the 2nd large number 255 could be a manufacturer ID or a "reset" all notes command depending on manufacturer. This may be why the midi file will not work. It is sending a command for another instrument (I'd have to look up Casio's manufacturer ID) or it could be sending an all notes reset command. If this is changed to 127, it s now sending a maximum velocity setting command (I think) instead of whatever 255 means to the Casio WK which may not be able to recognize what that 255 is or as I said, is sending a "reset" command instead of a fixed velocity level. I play the PX575 whych is very similar to the WK3200. I'll check these files later with MidiOx and see what I come up with. I also always need to convert smf's to 0 types to play in the PX575 and needed to use an old version of Cakewalk to do this, version 3.01. It has an option to save as type 0 or 1. I never tried with Reaper. Ted helped me with that, thanks Ted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Jokeyman,

Yes and as it turns out, the very last pages of the Casio Manual is the "MIDI IMPLEMENTATION CHART", which I have never noticed until now. It looks like there are no values anywhere for the Casio that should be higher than 127.

7    Volume

10  Pan

91  Reverb Send

93  Chorus send

 

On my machine Reverb and Chorus settings don't go any higher than 127. So maybe some of these parameters for Controllers have to somehow be set in whatever recording software is being used. I'll see if I can figure out how to scan/post the whole chart.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lurch, send me a PM (private message) here with your email and I will email you a copy of Cakewalk. It is old so looks a little strange, but it works. And it installs like an old Windows 95 program, I'll help you if you have trouble installing  it. It runs fast too because it is fairly simple, not CPU intensive, very barebones interface, quite a bit the opposite of Reaper and most other DAWs.  I have it running on Windows 7 Home Premiun and it works fine and just installed it another laptop. I'm sure it will run on older versions of Windows if you have XP for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Jokeyman,

 

Just finished installing Cakewalk 3 on my old 32 Bit, xP Dell Laptop and loaded a midi file. Did the Save As Option "0".

Loaded the card into the Casio and the SMF player gives the "Err Wrong Dat" error.

 

Created new, small midi test file on the same laptop in Ntrack 6, 32bit, with a single track, with a few piano notes. Saved as Mid 0 and Casio wouldn't play that.

Took same new test file, loaded in Cakewalk3 and it loaded as 2 tracks, not sure why.

Anyway did Save as Option "0" again and Casio still won't play it.

 

I have to be missing something very basic here. I'm about ready to give up.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could the issue be that I am creating/saving the mid 0 file on a 64 bit system using NTFS file system and Casio can only recognize FAT 32 system files? I have been transferring directly from my 64 bit Win 7 laptop to the Keyboard memory via midi / USB cable .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, problem partially solved, although it would be great to understand why.

 

But anyway, I downloaded a copy of Free Audacity.  I made a short midi  in Ntrack 64bit and exported as mid 0. Then I fire up Audacity, import the midi file,  export to Mid again, I transfer it to the casio via usb and Data management software and it plays fine. There is no mid 0 setting in Audacity.

 

Next I imported those 2 BONE midi's left hand piano and right hand piano) into Ntrack exported out as a single track. Import into Audacity, export as midi, transfer to Casio and it plays the first track as a "Gunshot" instrument and the 2nd track as Grand piano, like it's supposed to be. Been diddlin with settings in Ntrack and Casio all last night trying to sort that but at least the files play. Audacity is a great little program but it won't combine/export more than one midi track, that I'm aware of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok, so I figured out how to eliminate the "Gunshot" sound problem. It had to do with the "Program Change" list in Ntracks's Midi Event list.  I found some instructions online for a similar problem and applied them to my situation.

The good track had one Program Change of "0" listed. The bad track had several with Program Change 255, which is not supported by my Casio apparently.

 

Anyway, I simply deleted all program change entries in both tracks, Selected "None" for the Program in "Track Properties", exported from Ntrack as Mid0, then reimported that file into Audacity and exported again. both tracks play perfectly in the Casio. But if you then want to play the midi file in Ntrack, you'll have to reselect an instrument in the the Program

Below are the online instructions and a screen shot.

 

this may help you if your imported (downloaded) MIDI tracks/clips do not work correctly in N -

first - although the track extension always says .mid, there is more than one type of MIDI track - the main types are GM (General MIDI) and
SMF (standard MIDI file) - it is the GM type that foul everything up -

the problem lies in that a GM MIDI track is PRE PROGRAMMED to select an instrument from the Gereral MIDI set - what this means is that every time a MIDI track is played it will change the PROGRAM of a VSTi instrument - you set the VSTi to the program (preset/instrument) you want, the GM track will reset the progran to what it wants every time the track is played -

to overcome this - insert MIDI track/clip - double click in MIDI track to open track preferences - look under the green speed change arrows, if the PROGRAM box shows an instrument, acoustic grand piano/organ/guitar etc - click on the dropdown arrow at the end of the box and set it to NONE - this will stop the track pre-selecting an instrument -

NOW right click in the track - select EVENTS LIST - from the bottom buttons select VIEW/PLACE EVENTS - box opens - in the VIEW section hold down the SHIFT kay and select both NOTES and PROGRAM CHANGE - OK -

scan down the list and look for PROGRAM CHANGES - click in the TIME collum next to the program change (turns blue) then click on the DELETE button - do this for all program changes -


your MIDI clips should now work correctly -

BUT this not permanent it only works for that session - resaving the MIDI track under a new name does not work -

you have to ues another app to strip out all program changes -


http://www.sweetwater.com/k2000/smf-t.html

this app works BUT is not that easy to work out what to strip out as n often says it cnnot read the file, plays it OK though –

 

the term MIDI MAP we unknown before we had MIDI controllers - when a knood/slider on a controller is set to do a certain thing this is called mapping - a MIDI track is asigned to an instrument - not mapped - one thing to remember is that a MIDI track is nothing but data, numbers, the majority od the numbers are notes which in reality mean that say number 55 tells a tone generator to produce a certain tone -

MIDI has TWO SELECT OPTIONS, BANK select which is generally reserved for hardware synths and PROGRAN CHANGE - program change asigns an instrument to the midi track - this is required by the M$oft synth so that in a multitrack MIDI song each track plays a different instrument -

a lot of VSTi instruments either give you the choice of blocking program changes, so a GM track will not foul thing up or they totally ignore the numbers that represent program changes -

generally just setting the program box to NONE will stop GM tracks from upsetting most VSTi,s -

with some VSTi,s if the MIDI notes are out of range when that range is referenced to the GM drum set then no notes are played - in other words the MIDI notes are higher than the position of the drums then there will be no sound from the drum pads - to get MIDI note to fit within the drum range you have to change the kbd on the piano roll to MIDI drums and drag the notes into the position that the drums are placed - IE any notes that have no drum reference on the left side of the piano roll will not sound -

so if your MIDI clips do not play in your drum sampler, switch to the piano roll, then change the keyboard to MIDI drums, use the scrollbar to find where the notes are –

 

You shouldn't need to strip out program changes, n-Track by default strips them out during playback unless the "Filter program changes" Preferences/MIDI option is disabled (it is enabled by default).
n-Track uses the program change events in MIDI files that you import to extract which setting to use for the "Program" track setting, but once the .mid file is imported the program change event is no longer used if "Filter Program Changes" is on.
I wasn't able to reproduce tracks not remembering the "none" program setting. There might be a bug somewhere, please let me know if you can reproduce it.
Or perhaps you're saying that the Program setting resets if you export the track to a .mid file and then reimport it, which is what indeed happens if the track has program change events.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.