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Keys Getting Very Noisy


Jazzman

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  • 6 years later...

MZ-X KEYBED TOTALLY FIXED AND QUIET
No more click, clack and rattle! In a nutshell, I was impressed with the rave reviews of the MZ-X. They have been discontinued, so I bought a used one. It had noisy keys. I didn't know that this was a chonic issues with the MZ-X. I followed the CMF threads on this issue, and the couple of "fixes" for the keys. I tore my MZ down and removed the keys and carefully examined them to figure out why and how they made so much noise. The exam revealed a few fairly obvious causes and a couple of surprising ones. Once identified I tried a couple of fixes. To my delight the fixes worked better than I expected. My MZ keybed is now as quiet and smooth as my CT-S500 and Korg Pa4X! Better still, this should be a permanent fix that will not wear in and clatter again.

If anyone is interested in this DIY fix, I will gladly post the steps, procedures and photos.

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Humble Observations about MZ-X Keybed noise

 

This is an old thread but there may still be MZ-X owners wrestling with key issues.

I won't judge all MZ-X keybeds by mine  (there could be variations) but all the video's I have seen show the exact same key design as mine and I think it is fair to assume that the noise problems others are having is from the same causes as mine.

I did some deep digging and came up with different conclusions than others, including Casio. I examined and tested my keys and see the problems with noise (and came up with fixes that stopped it) Here are my observations. The problem begins with the design and manufacture of the keys and the type of plastic they are injection molded with. I think, to save money and make lighter keyboards they created group castings of keys with very thin, hard and resonant walls. They unintentionally created perfect percussive noise makers. Any contact with them makes noise. It wasn't a bad design idea, it just created a whole new problem that got out the door before anyone caught and fixed it. Tragic.

Here is part of the problem: Casio made the MZ-X with key guide tabs coming up from the bottom casing. The key walls ride up and down on these tabs and rely on them for positioning. I measured the tabs on my MZ and they are not consistent in width. That allows some keys to travel laterally closer to other keys. It also means some keys have greater gaps between the key walls and their tabs. Casio's approach is to depend entirely on these tabs and abundant grease to fill the gaps and contain the inherent noisiness of these keys. Thus, when played for a while the grease squeezes out from between the key walls and the thin guide tabs. Then the inherently noisy keys are free to to click and clatter. When new, the only vibration and noise damping the thin and resonant keys walls have is the grease between the tab and the key wall. When the grease is gone from use, the keys get clicky and clacky. When sent in for service, Casio does a new grease job and sends it back. In a while that grease may wear away and the keys get noisy agiain. Because of the key and tab design, the grease is a temporary fix.

Hurray for the MZ-X owners who have never had a noise problem. I hope they don't, but they may be a few more keystrokes and a thin coating of grease away from it. I am not a saboteur plant from Korg, Roland, Yamaha or anyone else. I love a good keyboard regardless of the brand and am dissappointed in one that lets me and my money down, regardless of brand.

Please understand, I am a Casio fan and love my PX-560, CT-S500 and MZ-X500. Casio does some very cool things and delivers some great sound and good bang for the buck. And I am an admirer of Mike and Rich, key assets for Casio 🙂 Still, some good souls in Casio management and engineering need to do a more thorough job with keybeds. They need to go past computer design and into field testing and beta shakedown.

For my MZ-X work-around I took a different approach and achieved very quiet and steady keys nearly as good as my Korg Pa4X, which is the best keybed I have ever had. My fixes are a little unorthodox but are intended as compensation for a weak design. They don't rely on the guide tabs and grease. I partially fill parts the undersides of the keys with silicone caulk. It dampens the resonant noise inherent in the hard, thin key walls. I also added small felt spacers/bumpers on the right side of each key to space and guide the keys. They no longer twist and lean into each other. That pretty well put and end to the click, clack and clatter. It also steadied the keys for a more confident feel. Because my fix does not rely on a perfect grease coating between the key walls and the guide tabs, I have reason to believe it is a lasting fix.

I added new silicone grease to the key walls and guide tabs and also added another layer of felt to the upstroke bumper to stop the rebounding key noise.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/6/2024 at 11:03 PM, Ron-wiz said:

MZ-X KEYBED TOTALLY FIXED AND QUIET
No more click, clack and rattle! In a nutshell, I was impressed with the rave reviews of the MZ-X. They have been discontinued, so I bought a used one. It had noisy keys. I didn't know that this was a chonic issues with the MZ-X. I followed the CMF threads on this issue, and the couple of "fixes" for the keys. I tore my MZ down and removed the keys and carefully examined them to figure out why and how they made so much noise. The exam revealed a few fairly obvious causes and a couple of surprising ones. Once identified I tried a couple of fixes. To my delight the fixes worked better than I expected. My MZ keybed is now as quiet and smooth as my CT-S500 and Korg Pa4X! Better still, this should be a permanent fix that will not wear in and clatter again.

If anyone is interested in this DIY fix, I will gladly post the steps, procedures and photos.

I am looking at doing something similar and would love to see some photos of what the different measures looks like .

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For TheMoon and other MZ-X lovers.

 

Thanks to all the contributors on this site for sharing their insights! I hope my experience will help someone else.
Everything I am sharing is my experience or IMO.

DISCLAIMER
-If you choose to do what I did, proceed at your own risk.
-I know my outcome but don't know you or your ability. I can't guarantee your results.
-I only advise this procedure for those "tinker-paws" with some prior technical skill. 
-For disassembly and reassembly, I found the "casio_mz-x500_ServiceManuals" (Service Manual & Parts List) online. I assume you can do the same.
-Disassembly and reassembly of the MZ-X500 was fairly straight forward and not overly complex.
-My MZ-X500 was used and out of warranty, so I wasn't concerned about voiding the warranty. 
-I had some experience fixing my gear so I wasn't worried about destroying my keyboard.

HERE IS WHAT I DID TO QUIET THE KEYS ON MY MZ-X500
If you want, you can skip this details section and go the the repairs section belowl

WHERE IT STARTED
Many of your comments inspired me to buy an MZ-X500. It was used, and sure enough it had noisy keys. That brought me here looking for fixes.

SURPRIZES AND DISCOVERIES
This key fix turned out to be a bit of a murder mystery for me. Like some others, I thought that re-greasing the key guides and key insides would quiet the Click, Clack and Clatter. I got inside expecting to find worn parts or lack of grease. Neither. That puzzled me and propelled me on a curriosity quest to find the noise source(s). So, I carefully examined the parts and studied all potential noise making movements. Here is what I discovered:

MZ-X KEYS ARE PERFECT PERCUSSION INSTRUMENTS
The prime noise generator on the MZ-X is the injection molded key design itself. 

MISSING REENFOCEMENT
In order to save cost and weight. Casio reduced the key wall thicknesses and skipped reinforcing web work inside the key shells. That web work would have avoided several problems and made even lightweight keys quiet and steady. There would never have been noisy MZ-X keys.

As it is, the underside of the keys are hollow boxes with thin walls of hard and resonant plastic. With the absence of reinforcing webbing, these key shells function as perfect percussive noise makers. Any contact with the keys produces and amplifies the Click, Clack and Clatter. Because of this design, keys are inherently noisy and are only marginally and temporarily quieted under ideal circumstances, like when they are new or have been re-greased.

Key tops “Click” with any fingernail contact. Key side walls “Clack” when contacting  adjacent keys or plastic guide posts. Flimsy key stems allow keys to lean or shift allowing keys to "Clack" against each other during play. Using muliple keys produces "Clatter". These keys become and unwelcome percussion section party crasher.

THE ROLE OF GREASE
Why doesn’t re-greasing permanently fix the noise? Because of the design of these noisy keys, the role of grease ends up being more as a noise and vibration damping filler between surfaces, than as a lubricant. Lots of grease will fill the gaps and somewhat dampen the noise, but with use, the grease squishes out as a dampening filler, leaving only a thin lubrication coating behind. It still lubricates but no longer dampen the key noise. This is why re-greasing doesn’t last and new replacement keys don’t fix the problem. Again, it isn't a grease problem, it is the noisy keys the grease is trying to quiet.

These discoveries helped me see what was needed for a lasting retrofix for my keys.

CAN THE MZ-X BE RESCUED? ABSOLUTELY.
After re-reading the posts of MZ-X lovers with angst over key noise. I thought I would reassure everyone that there is a lasting fix.

IN GENERAL, THIS IS WHAT I DID TO QUIET THE MZ-X KEYS

#1 ADDED SILICONE CAULK FILLING
I partially filled the hollow undersides of the keys with silicone caulk as shown in the photos #1, #2, #3. It absorbs the vibrations. It counteracts the inherent noise making resonance of these keys.

#2 GLUED ON FELT BUSHING PADS
I glued felt shims to the right side of each white key. This stopped any twisting, shifting or collisions between keys. Keys are now spaced, steady and silent. Photos #4 , #5

#3 ADDED EXTRA FELT BUMPERS
I also added additional felt strips at the underside of the keyboard chassis where keys rebound. This stopped key clack when keys are released. Photos #6.

RESULTS
The result is that the Click, Clack and Clatter is all gone. Quiet, smooth and confident keys. It turned out better than I expected.  I have every reason to believe this will be a lasting fix because it focussed on stopping the noise at the source rather than trying to cove it up.
It is not reliant on a coat of grease.

REPAIR STEPS AND DETAILS:


#1- FILLING KEY POCKETS WITH SILICONE CAULK
The more that the silicone touches the flat and thin key walls the more vibration it will absorb and damp. I put it into the corners and up the walls. I put some on the front inside face of the keys. I was amazed to discover how much noise these paper thin front walls broadcast. They are like little speakers. A little Silicone shut them right up. Probably under .20” thick coat so it doesn’t rub on the key guide posts.

#2- FELT SHIMS FOR SIDES OF KEYS
I added Felt shims on right sides of keys. About .25” width and about .40” length. Felt I used was .035” thick. It could be up to .050 thick or more. Glued on with a tacky glue. Glues on the side wall just below the horizontal parting line and just behind the vertical parting line at the front of the key.

#3- ADDITIONAL FELT BUMPERS FOR KEY REBOUND
I cut 12" x .25" strips of .035" felt and glued them on top of existing felt bumper in the channel on the bottom of the chassis. These are the felt bumpers that the keys rest on in their up position. They added just enough additional cushioning that I no longer hear the thunk or rattle when the key is released.

#4- SILICONE GREASE FOR KEY GUIDE POSTS
When I started this MZ-X key noise project, I assumed I needed silicone grease. I found it in hardware suppliers but in larger quantities and high prices. Then I found silicone grease for plastic parts in the repair tool section of my electronics store. Smaller tube and modest price. After other fixes to the noise issues, re-greasing seemed like a redundancy, but I was already there so I added a little for good measure. Photo #7.


"EXTRA" NOTE:
For many of us keyboard players, subjective subtleties like "key action" make a difference in  feel and expression. If you choose to "tame" your noisy MZ-X keys with silicone caulk as I did, this is something extra that you can consider while you are at it. I knew I needed X amount of silicone to stop the resonant noise in the hollow key shells, but how much more? What I added didn't really fill the cavities with silicone so there was space for more. As an experiment, I added more silicone to the keys on one of the octave key combs and found that I liked the feel of the extra mass. Silicone caulk is heavy. The keys still had the same semi-weighted spring pressure but that little extra mass felt good. It gave my fingers that little "heft" and push-back confirmation of the key presence. Instead of the feather weight key mass of the original MZ-X keys, it gained a little bit of inertia and momentum. This is something that is independent of the spring pressure.  Something to think about and tinker with.



Korg PA4X, Casio PX 560, Casio MZ-X500, Casio CT-S500

01 MzKeyFix Key Caulk 1.jpg

02 MzKeyFix Key Caulk 2.jpg

03 MzKeyFix Key Caulk 3.jpg

04 MzKeyFix Felt Shims 1.jpg

05 MzKeyFix Felt Shims 2.jpg

06 MzKeyFix Felt Stop.jpg

07 MzKeyFix Grease Tube.jpg

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Some time ago I searched online for replacement keys for the MZ-X500 thinking that would fix the noisy keys on my unit.  I noticed that several Casio models shared the exact same keys. Since many MZ-X units developed noisy and clattery keys after a while, I got wondering if this was also a chronic issue with the other models that share these keys. I determined that the key design itself was the primary cause of the MZ-X key noise and guessed it would show up the same in other models using these keys. Any info on that?

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