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New to midi: How do I get it to work?


dc2k

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Hi guys, I want to play around with the midi using the PX5S

I downloaded a free program called midiEditor:  

http://midieditor.sourceforge.net/index.php?category=intro

 

What I want to do is play a song and record the midi into the program, then correct the mistakes and play the midi back on the PX5S.

I'm not sure if what I am doing is correct but I have the PX5S connected to my PC (windows 10) using the USB chord.

In the program settings, I can see CASIO USB-MIDI listed for output and input but I cannot check either box.

 

Do you think this is an error or my end because I have not set the PX5S to do what I want to so (I see some settings for MIDI under the SYS Settings menu on the keyboard)..

..or do you think it is an issue with the program? Or maybe I have it connected to a USB3 port or something similar.

Here's a screenshot:  

 

c2NySHo.png

 

Thanks!

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After a reboot I was able to check the box to select the PX5S. 

I actually had it working for moment but I'm not sure what midi options I had changed in the SYS Settings/MIDI menu. 

Now I just get "no events recorded" when I try to record the MIDI.  

Does anyone know what I settings I should change in the MIDI menu in SYS settings to be able to record midi and play it back?

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Go to the Anvil Studio "MIXER" page.  That is the default "home" page that comes up when you first start the program, so if you just started it, you will already be there.  On the track that you want to record to, verify that the track is "armed" for recording, as indicated by a red check mark in the far left hand column.  If there is no red check mark there, left click in that box to "arm" the track for recording.  This needs to be done before you click the "REC" button to start the recording process.  On that same track, go to the 7th column from the left: "Channel", and note the channel number that is in that box.  Now, go the PX5S MIDI setup menu and verify that it is transmitting the part that you want to record on that same channel.  If those numbers do not agree, you will need to change one end or the other so that they do agree.  If you want to change the channel that Anvil Studio is receiving on, just left click in the "Channel" box for that track and select the appropriate channel number from the drop down menu.  I have a WK-3800, so I can not help you with the PX5S MIDI set up, but there are others here who can help you with that, if you need it.

 

I notice on your Anvil Studio setup pages above that you selected Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth as your MIDI output device,  You can do that, and it will work, but playback will not sound anywhere near as good as the PX5S native sounds,  GS Wavetable sounds are generic small, economy and polyphony saving wave samples that are around 20 year old technology.  Typically, you would play your recordings back into the PX5S to use it as a high quality sound module.

 

Good luck !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

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Go to the Anvil Studio "MIXER" page.  That is the default "home" page that comes up when you first start the program, so if you just started it, you will already be there.  On the track that you want to record to, verify that the track is "armed" for recording, as indicated by a red check mark in the far left hand column.  If there is no red check mark there, left click in that box to "arm" the track for recording.  This needs to be done before you click the "REC" button to start the recording process.  On that same track, go to the 7th column from the left: "Channel", and note the channel number that is in that box.  Now, go the PX5S MIDI setup menu and verify that it is transmitting the part that you want to record on that same channel.  If those numbers do not agree, you will need to change one end or the other so that they do agree.  If you want to change the channel that Anvil Studio is receiving on, just left click in the "Channel" box for that track and select the appropriate channel number from the drop down menu.  I have a WK-3800, so I can not help you with the PX5S MIDI set up, but there are others here who can help you with that, if you need it.

 

I notice on your Anvil Studio setup pages above that you selected Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth as your MIDI output device,  You can do that, and it will work, but playback will not sound anywhere near as good as the PX5S native sounds,  GS Wavetable sounds are generic small, economy and polyphony saving wave samples that are around 20 year old technology.  Typically, you would play your recordings back into the PX5S to use it as a high quality sound module.

 

Good luck !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

 

Thanks Ted, I haven't had to mess around with channels yet but I did have anvil working to some extent. 

 

fQBuIkZ.png

 

One thing I didn't know what do was which 'patch library' I should choose in the dialog above when I changed the 'device' in the six column next to where you choose the channel.

 

I'm looking around for a DAW with the best video tutorials for beginners as anvil doesn't really have much. 

any recommendations?

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As far as a Patch Library, I was not surprised when I was unable to find an existing one for the PX-5S, so I downloaded the Cakewalk (Sonar) Instrument Definition (.ins) File from the file download section of this forum, but when I tried to import it into Anvil Studio, I got a pop-up stating that I needed to upgrade to the paid version to do that.  In the meantime, you could use Anvil Studio's default GM patch library, and it will use the PX-5S's GM tone bank, but that will most likely not sound any better than the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth that is on your computer, because GM tones are GM tones are GM tones.  When you've heard one GM tone bank, you've pretty much heard them all.  The Roland GS tone bank and Yamaha XG and XG-LITE tone bank proprietary versions might have a slight edge over generic GM tone banks, but not by much.

 

While there are a lot of Anvil Studio tutorials on YouTube, I am sure that video tutorials for the more popular high-end DAW's (Cubase, Sonar, Ableton, etc) would be more numerous, but unless you purchased a professionally produced video direct from the DAW manufacturer, I'm not sure its quality would be much better than the average amateur produced YouTube video.  Unless you are prepared to invest several hundred dollars in a high-end DAW, I would recommend Cakewalk's Music Creator.  You can download Music Creator 7 from Cakewalk's website for $49.99 USD.  Music Creator is a subset of Cakewalk's top of the line DAW Sonar.  When it comes to MIDI and basic audio recording capabilities, Music Creator and Sonar are essentially identical.  The difference comes in Sonar's advanced audio and digital effects handling capabilities.  So, Music Creator 7 would be my recommendation for your current situation, and if you can find a copy of Music Creator 6 at a substantial savings, I would recommend that.

 

Another viable solution would be to combine your phrases and tracks into songs on the keyboard, itself, with the Song Sequencer, then play those back on the keyboard as you record them to wav files on a USB flash drive.  Port the USB flash drive to your computer and convert the wav files to MP3 files.  With MP3 files on a USB flash drive, you essentially have your PX-5S in your pocket.  You can play them back on any MP3 player, and they will sound exactly as they did when you recorded them on your PX-5S - no amateur sounding GM tone banks - because you have digitally recorded your PX-5S's own high quality tone banks.  Once I got my CTK-7000 and WK-7500, with their audio recording capabilities, my computer pretty much just gathered dust, except for converting the Casio wav files to standard wav files, and then converting those to MP3 files.  The ultimate would have been for the keyboards to have converted the wav files to MP3 files on the USB flash drive themselves.

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
 

As far as a Patch Library, I was not surprised when I was unable to find an existing one for the PX-5S, so I downloaded the Cakewalk (Sonar) Instrument Definition (.ins) File from the file download section of this forum, but when I tried to import it into Anvil Studio, I got a pop-up stating that I needed to upgrade to the paid version to do that.  In the meantime, you could use Anvil Studio's default GM patch library, and it will use the PX-5S's GM tone bank, but that will most likely not sound any better than the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth that is on your computer, because GM tones are GM tones are GM tones.  When you've heard one GM tone bank, you've pretty much heard them all.  The Roland GS tone bank and Yamaha XG and XG-LITE tone bank proprietary versions might have a slight edge over generic GM tone banks, but not by much.

 

While there are a lot of Anvil Studio tutorials on YouTube, I am sure that video tutorials for the more popular high-end DAW's (Cubase, Sonar, Ableton, etc) would be more numerous, but unless you purchased a professionally produced video direct from the DAW manufacturer, I'm not sure its quality would be much better than the average amateur produced YouTube video.  Unless you are prepared to invest several hundred dollars in a high-end DAW, I would recommend Cakewalk's Music Creator.  You can download Music Creator 7 from Cakewalk's website for $49.99 USD.  Music Creator is a subset of Cakewalk's top of the line DAW Sonar.  When it comes to MIDI and basic audio recording capabilities, Music Creator and Sonar are essentially identical.  The difference comes in Sonar's advanced audio and digital effects handling capabilities.  So, Music Creator 7 would be my recommendation for your current situation, and if you can find a copy of Music Creator 6 at a substantial savings, I would recommend that.

 

Another viable solution would be to combine your phrases and tracks into songs on the keyboard, itself, with the Song Sequencer, then play those back on the keyboard as you record them to wav files on a USB flash drive.  Port the USB flash drive to your computer and convert the wav files to MP3 files.  With MP3 files on a USB flash drive, you essentially have your PX-5S in your pocket.  You can play them back on any MP3 player, and they will sound exactly as they did when you recorded them on your PX-5S - no amateur sounding GM tone banks - because you have digitally recorded your PX-5S's own high quality tone banks.  Once I got my CTK-7000 and WK-7500, with their audio recording capabilities, my computer pretty much just gathered dust, except for converting the Casio wav files to standard wav files, and then converting those to MP3 files.  The ultimate would have been for the keyboards to have converted the wav files to MP3 files on the USB flash drive themselves.

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Ted, 

 

I've actually been learning Reaper for the past couple of weeks. It's $59 and you can trial it for two months and even after that it just gives you nag warnings, still I'll probably buy it. I like it so far. Reason I picked it was because of a huge series of professional videos on youtube about how to use it, nicely cataloged and ordered. 

 

So I've been recording midi from the PX5s into that, cleaning it up and playing it back through the PX5S. To record audio from the PX5s into Reaper (without doing the whole USB thing), I guess I'll need an audio interface so I'll probably pick up one of them.

 

One question, I had was: I went and opened the data editor for the PX5S today, hoping I could control the PX5S with that while midi is being outputted to the PX5S from reaper but when I had the two programs opened together, I got the warning in Reaper:

 

The following MIDI inputs could not be opened: 
    CASIO USB-MIDI
The following MIDI outputs could not be opened: 
    CASIO USB-MIDI

 

Do you think it is possible to use both the data editor and Reaper at the same time?

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No !  The Data Editor ties up the PX-5S's MIDI ports, so they are not available for anything else.  It would be the same thing if you started Reaper first, then tried to bring up the Data Editor.  It would not be able to access the PX-5S, as Reaper would already have the ports tied up.  The MIDI ports only allow one connection at a time - on a first come only one served basis.

 

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No !  The Data Editor ties up the PX-5S's MIDI ports, so they are not available for anything else.  It would be the same thing if you started Reaper first, then tried to bring up the Data Editor.  It would not be able to access the PX-5S, as Reaper would already have the ports tied up.  The MIDI ports only allow one connection at a time - on a first come only one served basis.

 

 

Is there any work around? Say if you used an audio interface, midi cables or something?

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The PX-5S has both USB-MIDI and 5-pin-DIN MIDI-IN/OUT, so you could make use of both of those.  I have a feeling the Data Editor is designed to work only with the USB-MIDI port, so you would need to use the 5-pin-DIN MIDI-IN/OUT ports for Reaper.  This would require a USB-MIDI Adapter to adapt the 5-pin-DIN connections of the PX-5S to one of the USB ports of your computer,  These can be had online for as low as a few dollars, but like anything else, you get what you pay for, and the bottom end models can require several exchanges in order to get one that finally works.  For better reliability, I would not go less than about $15 USD, but for the ultimate in reliability, you would need to go about $30 to $40 for a name brand like Yamaha or EMU or iConnectivity:

 

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=yamaha+ux16&tag=mh0b-20&index=aps&hvadid=78065329451056&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_6w9v1es6k7_e

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The PX-5S has both USB-MIDI and 5-pin-DIN MIDI-IN/OUT, so you could make use of both of those.  I have a feeling the Data Editor is designed to work only with the USB-MIDI port, so you would need to use the 5-pin-DIN MIDI-IN/OUT ports for Reaper.  This would require a USB-MIDI Adapter to adapt the 5-pin-DIN connections of the PX-5S to one of the USB ports of your computer,  These can be had online for as low as a few dollars, but like anything else, you get what you pay for, and the bottom end models can require several exchanges in order to get one that finally works.  For better reliability, I would not go less than about $15 USD, but for the ultimate in reliability, you would need to go about $30 to $40 for a name brand like Yamaha or EMU or iConnectivity:

 

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=yamaha+ux16&tag=mh0b-20&index=aps&hvadid=78065329451056&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_6w9v1es6k7_e

 

Great, thanks!

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I have a feeling the Data Editor is designed to work only with the USB-MIDI port, so you would need to use the 5-pin-DIN MIDI-IN/OUT ports for Reaper.  This would require a USB-MIDI Adapter to adapt the 5-pin-DIN connections of the PX-5S to one of the USB ports of your computer

 

Forgot to ask, would an audio interface have this usb-midi capability because I plan on getting one of those anyway. Looks like a low range one is about $150. 

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Only if you get an audio interface unit that specifically has USB-MIDI capabilities built into it, but in that case, the USB-MIDI just goes along for the ride as an added feature, so you need to check the specs closely to ensure you are getting a MIDI interface as well as an audio interface.  Since you are considering an audio unit anyway, I would certainly recommend a combo unit, as it would make a much more professional and mechanically stable set up than one of those cable adapters I gave you the link to last night.  Did you notice Brad's comment above that the PX-5S Data Editor will work with either USB-MIDI or 5-pin-DIN MIDI, so it would be up to you what you connected to what.  Thanks for the tip, Brad !

 

dc2k, since you are new to this, here is a word of warning that most new comers have problems with.  When you get your USB-MIDI adapter, its connections are NOT labeled by what they connect to on the PX-5S.  That is, the MIDI-IN on the adapter does not mean it connects to MIDI-IN on the PX-5S, and MIDI-OUT on the adapter does not mean it connects to MIDI-OUT on the PX-5S.  Rather, they are labeled by what they ARE, by what function they perform.  MIDI-IN is an input,so it needs to connect to an output (MIDI-OUT), and MIDI-OUT is an output, so it needs to connect to an input (MIDI-IN).  This may seem trivial, but believe it or not, I just had this argument with a fellow who has been playing for over 30 years, but had never connected his keyboard to anything but commercial power and an external amp, but he hopped right up and advised a newbie that "in goes to in" and "out goes to out".  It took three of us to convince the new guy to try it our way, but our friend went away swearing that the poor guy was going to blow out his MIDI ports - which, by the way, he would not have.  The problem is that this can cause hours or days or weeks of pointless hardware and set up trouble shooting, when the actual trouble is simple user error.

 

Good luck !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

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Only if you get an audio interface unit that specifically has USB-MIDI capabilities built into it, but in that case, the USB-MIDI just goes along for the ride as an added feature, so you need to check the specs closely to ensure you are getting a MIDI interface as well as an audio interface.  Since you are considering an audio unit anyway, I would certainly recommend a combo unit, as it would make a much more professional and mechanically stable set up than one of those cable adapters I gave you the link to last night.  Did you notice Brad's comment above that the PX-5S Data Editor will work with either USB-MIDI or 5-pin-DIN MIDI, so it would be up to you what you connected to what.  Thanks for the tip, Brad !

 

dc2k, since you are new to this, here is a word of warning that most new comers have problems with.  When you get your USB-MIDI adapter, its connections are NOT labeled by what they connect to on the PX-5S.  That is, the MIDI-IN on the adapter does not mean it connects to MIDI-IN on the PX-5S, and MIDI-OUT on the adapter does not mean it connects to MIDI-OUT on the PX-5S.  Rather, they are labeled by what they ARE, by what function they perform.  MIDI-IN is an input,so it needs to connect to an output (MIDI-OUT), and MIDI-OUT is an output, so it needs to connect to an input (MIDI-IN).  This may seem trivial, but believe it or not, I just had this argument with a fellow who has been playing for over 30 years, but had never connected his keyboard to anything but commercial power and an external amp, but he hopped right up and advised a newbie that "in goes to in" and "out goes to out".  It took three of us to convince the new guy to try it our way, but our friend went away swearing that the poor guy was going to blow out his MIDI ports - which, by the way, he would not have.  The problem is that this can cause hours or days or weeks of pointless hardware and set up trouble shooting, when the actual trouble is simple user error.

 

Good luck !

 

Regards,

 

Ted

 

 

Great tip, Ted! Thanks for thinking of telling me that. I would have put them in incorrectly.

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