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Privia 360 Velocity

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I bought the PX-360 keyboard but I was wondering about its velocity... There is an audible difference when I play white keys and black keys. Balck keys sound lower than white! In fact, velocity is about 10% less if I look at DAW when I use USB/MIDI connection and keys are pressed in the same way. Is this normal? I don't know if X-60 casio line has this characteristic or maybe my keyboard is defective. Before, I had an old Privia Model (PX-410R) and it didn't have this characteristic so I was wondering why the difference. I'd appreciate any comments about this. 

Thank you

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My first thought is has to do with the leverage of the keys (where the fulcrum is). Maybe someone else here with an X60 can confirm. 

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Shouldn't be. I play a px575 (same as px410) and the older px350 and I notice no difference in velocity response with either. Keys seem pretty dynamically balanced across all octaves white and black. Unless Casio changed the key mechanism from the 350 to 360, there should be no difference. I have not checked the channel messages with Midiox with my px350, never felt a need to  but I can hear no audible differences with mine. I'll measure velocity response with Midiox and post back.

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Here is a thread about the same complaint on the PX-5S from two years ago.  It might be worth reviewing it for some additional insights:

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/4770-acoustic-piano-samples-one-key-sounds-louder-than-others/&do=findComment&comment=23456

 

Pay particular attention to the comments of Dave Weiser regarding some of the Kurzweil models.  It seems that this phenomenon, whatever its cause, is not isolated to the Casio lines

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Tannk you all for your replies. 

 

All the key action seems to be well weighted (all the 88 keys). Obviously, the feeling of pressing black keys is quite different of pressing white keys. Maybe this is for mechanical construction in both kinds of key but I'm not familiar with thechnical performance of Casio key action ( @Scott Hamlin Did you think about some specific issue? )

 

However, PX-360 feels different to me since I played PX-410R. And I'm talking about sound intensity. Black keys sound lower than white keys if I play them with same pressure. The first thing I did is turn off the "Touch response". Then, all notes did sound with same level. I read thet topic @tnicoson said and the problem seems to be the same. G3 sounds louder than nearest white keys just if I used medium pressure. I wanted to figure out if maybe Piano samples were the reason for this and I thought in MIDI velocity layers. I made a simple experiment: With the spine of a book (to simulate fixed pressure), I play both white and black key and record a MIDI track. I repeated it for three different octaves and the result was the same: black keys sounds approximately 25% less. I upload results images for you to see. I hope @Jokeyman123 can measure velocity to compare. 

 

I don't know if this is normal on X-60 line because it's not one single key, it's all the black keys. I hope you can help me to answer my question: Is my PX-360 defective?

 

Low_keys.thumb.jpg.3cc5de89e2ac4fe0ccbb715d1a0de272.jpgMid_keys.thumb.jpg.05c7e932a9187200315dc1c2464476b3.jpgHigh_keys.thumb.jpg.8db0ac10eb5958f264c91bfc87dc4c23.jpg

 

 

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OK, here is what I have observed with Midiox connected to the px350 not the 360 which I do not own.

 

Hitting notes in various octaves I can get a range (in hex) of roughly 14 with the softest pianissimo to the 70 range at fortissimo. This is with a touch sensitivity setting of 3, the hardest setting for the px350 key response. Midiox's midi monitor shows velocity settings in the column labelled "data 2" as far as I can see. Significantly, I see no variation in these settings from black to white keys, and I thought this would be true since there is no audible difference, even with my best AKG monitor headphones. So there is a possibility of a defect in this particular px360, I'm not sure if the internal mechanism is the same as the 350. I'd like to think with a newer model than mine that it would be either identical or possibly improved in some way. Hope this helps you decide what needs to be done. I would judge such a discrepancy to be unacceptable, except for jazz or playing chopsticks (only kidding)!

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I have another idea on what is wrong here. The black and white key assemblies each have their own felt bumper strips, which technically should be the same-should allow for the same amount of key-throw and shock resistance when the key travels up and down (actually the metal fulcrum arm corresponding to each key hits up and down on 2 separate felt strips above and below the fulcrum arm). If somehow the strips installed under the black keys are not identical to the white key strips, or if these strips have premature wear or defective installation, this could be the problem. You would not have the same degree of "throw"-the same momentum for all the keys. And you would not get the same physical pressure and response when the key hits the rubber sensors under the keys. Whatever it is, it should not be and needs to be corrected, IMO. If you can connect your px360 to a computer running Midiox, open the midi input window, play some keys and look at the "data 2" column. You should get pretty much identical values from the black keys to adjacent white keys. To Casio's credit-I found the velocity values very consistent across all octaves-this shows good engineering design and is certainly not always the results I see with  digital pianos.

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I see what your point is @Jokeyman123, thank you for all your comments. I talked with the store where I bought the PX-360 and they seems surprised with the issue. Right now they don't have other PX-360 available but maybe this week they can bring another and test this velocity problem or look at mechanical defects. 

 

I'm gonna make what you say with Midiox (have to download the program) and post what I find. Thank you so much

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I made tha test on MIDI-OX and the result is the same. Where I note the most difference between velocities is the range 80-105. 

 

Like the post @tnicoson mentioned, G4 has quite higher value. But with the same pressure both keys send noticeable quite different velocities values (I see at least 10 of difference).

 Captura2.JPG.15671229e57f07531151ccd41098deb6.JPG

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Keys respond to velocity, not pressure.  Imagine swatting a fly rather than squashing a sandwich.  😉

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Brad is right. The results showing in Midiox are showing the results of the initial impact of the key, which is velocity, not key pressure. I do not think these Casios respond to key pressure or what is also called aftertouch.  Midiox will be showing significant measurements for velocity-which based upon equal velocity from your playing-should be showing reasonably similar numbers across the key range, in all octaves, regardless of whether you are playing black or white keys, and there should be no big variation for an individual key. This is what my results are showing-surprisingly consistent and again, good job Casio.

 

Yes, your best test would be to play another PX360 and decide for yourself. i sure hope you did not buy a display model-which could account for this discrepancy. Most people fooling around in a store display model might favor playing the white keys-and there would be more wear on the felt strips as a consequence. This would then require less velocity from the white keys than the black for similar results! This may seem a long shot, but it is possible and is just my guess. Or, the factory installer did not put the right felt strips on one or the other key assembly under the keys, and this is creating the different responses. Try pushing down firmly on a section of the black keys for as few seconds (compressing the internal felt strip a bit) and then measure the key velocity with Midiox, or by ear and see if you can detect a change. If so, this means the black key felt strips are not as worn as the white, or there is some defect in the way the white key strips were placed. It's possible although I've never played a Casio with this defect. not making any accusations, but I'm thinking this may have been a previously played floor model. .Now if only Sherlock Holmes were here to help us..............Art in the blood takes the strangest forms.:o

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