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Midi Issue - midi instrument sounds muffled


chrissk21

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This one has me completely stumped - I use my PX-5S as a controller and live instrument.  The internal sounds are functioning great.  I've got plenty of velocity curve to play with and can produce quite expressive sounds on a slightly tweaked Concert Piano Stage Setting.  

 

However, I've recently noticed that the sounds produce by PropellerHead Reason (some synths and a few pianos) feel muffled and muted as compared to when I use a different controller.  And, oddly, when I hold down the sustain pedal, the sounds in Reason return to being clear, bright, and significantly louder. 

 

Here's what I've tried: 

1. I tried numerous different custom and purchased patches in Reason. They are all exhibiting this problem.  Therefore, I think it's the PX-5S.

2. I've tried a number of different stage settings on the PX-5S to see if it was something I accidentally triggered - nope.  It occurs on a lot of them, even ones I didn't build or fiddle with. 

3. I've tried different USB cables. Still does this. 

4. I've disabled the internal sounds (local control) on the PX-5S. Didn't help.

5. I've disabled High Resolution Output. Didn't help. 


Other than my PX-5S is malfuntioning, any ideas guys?  I can still use it to control Synths and Pads, as they are much easier to control with longer attacks, but this problem has made playing a midi piano of any kind impossible.  

 

Thanks in advance. 

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Brad,

After I sent the original Post, I did exactly what you recommended.  I used MidiOX for the PC and hooked up the PX-5S.  I tried it in both High Res and non-High Res modes.  I'm not an expert in midi, but I couldn't see any variations in midi signals with or without sustain pedal.  Additionally, I was able to play a 5-step velocity gradation on the board and see the difference between each step, getting all the way to 126/127.  Am I right to think that the board is outputting the appropriate velocity scale, then?  I'll test with another DAW program like Pianoteq and post my findings.  

 

Thanks for the input guys.

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Ok, did the test with PianoTeq. Pretty cool program I have to say.  Everything with the PX-5S is functioning exactly as it should be. I got consistent velocity readings throughout the 0-127 scale.  It performed beautifully in both normal and high-res modes.  I was able to play a single note repetitively both staccato and sustained with no discernible difference in volume or velocity.  This is all good news, but it now points to Reason.  I guess it's time to dig under the hood of that program.  Any tips for setups using the PX-5S as a controller?

 

Thanks for your help and suggestsions 

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This gets a little complicated, but you might be able to do this-download "Midiyoke" from Midiox's website. This allows you to route internal midi  software connections any way you want. Why would you want to do this? Well, theoritically you can now connect Reason's "midi out" into "Midiox"'s midi input-and at least see what velocity settings are coming out of Reason, how it is responding to the PX5s. Sounds like Reason is interpreting  a system channel message or sysex message in a way that causes it to change a channel message to the "soft" pedal setting, thus lowering the velocity response. And when you use the sustain pedal, it is being interpreted in Reason as again, some sort of velocity setting-maybe pushing it up to a fixed higher number. if you can get midiyoke and midiox connected to see Reason's output to midiox, you might get a clearer picture of what is happening. Just a guess, hope this helps.

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Ok, I did what you recommended Jokeyman.  I installed the latest version of Reason available as a demo on my PC and retested.  I still experienced the same problem: with sustain pedal the synths/pianos/etc are producing a sustained sound that is significantly louder than without the pedal.  I then downloaded the needed software to route a midi-out from reason into the MidiOx monitor.  I can't see anything abnormal.  Tapping on a single key with the same pressure over and over and systematically turning on and off the sustain pedal showed only minor variations in the velocity output values coming from reason.  They were so consistent that I would have to blame them purely on my ability (or inability) to repeat the same pressure over and over on a keyboard.  Additionally, the sustain pedal is only registering as CC64: Pedal (Sustain) On/Off.  No other signal appears to be sent from the Keyboard.  I've attached a screengrab of the midiOx report for reference.

 

Additionally, I retested wtih PianoTeq on the PC and found that it played perfectly.  

 

Any other suggestions or ideas? Thanks guys.

MidiCapture.JPG

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Hello,

 

Looking at your midi display, you have what looks like three simultaneous events occurring at the same time on the same channel.  you must be transmitting three zones all on the same channel for the same note.  In these cases, you may get a "phasing" effect (lacking a better term) where the midi equipment is trying to play the exact same note on the exact same channel on the exact same program times 3.

 

Likely, the midi equipment or sound source is having trouble resolving the input.  One solution is to turn off all of the midi output for all of the zones, verify that pressing a key results in no events being generated out, then turning on the midi output for a single zone and testing your velocity playing.

 

Because your display is set to decimal, it took me a second to recognize the midi commands.

 

under Status, 144 is the same as 90 hex.  9 means note on and 0 means channel 1.  Data1 is the note value and Data2 is the velocity.  Once I realized what I was looking at, I could tell that 3 iterations of the exact same event were being sent at the same time.  This usually means that all of the zones on the PX are sending to the same channel or, the software or midi device that receives the data always receives all events on the same channel regardless of whether or not the data sent is on different channels.

 

 

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SOLVED! Choppin, you were spot on.  I was able to eliminate the MIDI output from the keyboard that was exiting through separate channels.  In turn, this eliminated the three inputs per key stroke.  By consequence, with or without sustain pedal Reason sound perfect again!  Thanks so much for the idea. Love this forum. 

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