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Piano Learning Software vs. One-on-One Learning


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from http://takelessons.com/blog/piano-learning-software : "While these piano learning software packages may work alone, their effectiveness can be amplified by working with a qualified piano teacher. Keep in mind that there are many subtle aspects of playing the piano that can’t be learned by software alone."

 

Can anybody name some of "many subtle aspects of playing the piano that can’t be learned by software alone"

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This is too abstract description.

 

I do not think that proper technique is an issue since scores (for teaching purposes) include additional notations such as finger numbers.

This part is actually well designed.

 

I see that there are certain aspects which can be developed better by using tutoring software.

For instance developing of a practice habit (it forces to stay with the correct rhythm every time) 

Build correct learning pattern just by following lessons. (spiting to smaller pieces, separating hands, changing rhythm to the convenient level and staying with it automatically, habit pre-counting and etc. )

It provide a clear grading system which tells you exactly when you are ready to move further.

I know a few things that no tutoring software controls(checks). For instance tutoring software does not check dynamics. However it does not mean you need an instructor assistance for developing that skills, since it is all in scores.

 

Just a name of one aspect that can’t be learned by software alone. ( I do not consider video as part of this process at all )

Let's assume that you are right (Proper technique.) Which aspect of the technique?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm NOT saying that software, videos, etc. are bad ways to learn or that they have no advantages. They can be very useful and if they get more people playing and enjoying music, that's great.

 

But YOU asked where they are lacking and I answered. Technique isn't just finger numbers. Body, arm, and hand positions can be shown, but if you don't do it right, there's no one to tell you that. If there are weaknesses in your playing, I don't know of any software that can tell you, "hey, your fourth finger is weak, you need to develop that and here are some exercises for it," or "to get from here to here, instead of what you're doing try doing it this way instead." Meanwhile, my piano teacher does this with me all the time.

 

I've seen it tons of times. Someone will post about having some physical difficulties which seem likely due to issues with their technique, and the only answer is for them to find a teacher who can analyze what they're doing and correct it.

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Ok,
Now we have at least "a fourth finger issue". That's great.
And a lack of analysis.

Just want to clarify I am not trying just to oppose at any cost.

A couple of notes:
1) It is not a task of a teacher to design an individual exercise for your fourth finger (I think you did not mean that).  This subject is a part of a regular routine of the learning course.
Actually such courses were designed for centuries ( at least they are based on experience acquired during many centuries ). Both teachers and software follow some defined sets/sequence of lessons(text books) ( up to certain level which at least covers first several years ).

The exercises are known, all students have to go through all of them to complete the course.

There is nothing unique for instance in development of 4th/5th fingers coordination vs 1st/2nd fingers coordination - that actually where finger numbers come to the play :)

Good software course takes years to complete because it takes care of many aspects.
Therefore I still do not see here the prove of the statement:  
"There are many subtle aspects of playing the piano that can’t be learned by software alone."
Software will definitely take care of lack of motor skills of my 4th finger:)

2) Lack of analysis. 
It is very important to set an appropriate target-level for student to achieve with the respect of his current skills.
Software does it automatically because student clearly knows when he is ready to advance to the next step. Completing of all exercises with the highest grade is the benchmark for a good performance.

Lack of analysis again- The most of work done by student on his own. I would give in reality a teacher 2-5% of all time student spends at the instrument.
Some pieces are repeated hundreds or thousands times.
In case of the software there is 100% time feedback from the system about quality of your performance (not all aspects), but you are still a human you still have to think and listen. And of course students free to play without been watched by the system.

Another important component of the learning curve is the ability to determine the correct speed of playing.  Talking about 4th finger problem - it all comes to a practice at the correct speed. Tutoring software is just great in the field. 


the bottom line - I do not need a teacher to detect that my motor skills for 4th finger require improvement. The software will lead through process of developing motor skills for every finger with respect to my current level.

There suppose to be something that you cannot learn from Tutoring Software vs a Teacher, but what is it is still an open question ;)

 

Ask your teacher what tutoring software he knows and what is his opinion about it. What is it good for?

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Here's one for ya ss.....how does your playing sound? There's no software I know of that can tell you if your playing sounds like crap! And how do you know whether it does or doesn't, you may think you sound terrific and then....

 

Listen to and study many great players-Tatum, Willie the Lion Smith, Eubie Blake, James P. Johnson, Albert Ammons, Fats Waller and I can go on-and many great classical players-somewhere along the line, they were listening to somebody else and saying.......holy cr**! how does he play like that! And then figured out how to do it-but without software. Listen to Tatum, he couldn't even see for g**sakes-there is no software that could have taught Tatum to play like that. So-you want an answer?

 

The word is inspiration and experience playing with other musicians who are better than you-the human element has always been the greatest challenge. that, and having a real human being watching what you do and seeing that for some strange reason, whenever you execute some passage or technique, you seem to not notice your hand, arm or fingers are doing something weird which is limiting your playing ability and it is something you would never notice if someone else wasn't monitoring you and correcting you-visually and maybe with a good verbal spanking.I speak from firsthand experience there! 

 

if he were alive, I'd love to ask Fats Waller what he thought about music software. He learned to play like that because he was inspired by others, and because he heard and saw the great New Orleans players of the day. and because his livelihood depended upon it. I studied with 3 classical pros-all accomplished classical players. but my playing improved dramatically when I had to go out and play gigs every week, and was competing with other players around me! and I had been using software when it first came out, back in the 1980s on my first Atari computer. .And listening to Vladimir Horowitz or someone similar is helpful, but watching his beautifully elegant way of approaching the instrument (hand/arm positioning, finger execution) is priceless and he is only one example. One of my teachers, Gary Kirkpatrick had a way of throwing his whole weight into playing the Rhapsody in Blue by Gershwin. if I hadn't studied him up close and personal, I would never have thought it possible and certainly not a viable playing technique-and yet this is what brought out his most powerful playing, so go figure!

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Jokeyman123

It is interesting what you are saying.
In many ways it expresses my own thoughts.

Just a quick note: "alone" - I think this is a trick definition here which does not mean in the context exactly "alone". It means without a teacher - at least this is what it means for me.

You extend definition of teacher to the infinite level.
Giving an examples of genius musicians is great.
Are you talking about genius teachers as well?
If it is so,then I agree that a software tutoring system cannot serve as a Genius tutoring system.  

I see it the way that we are talking about first 3-4 years of education (May be more, but may be...).

 

If anybody has an experience of using software tutoring for 10 years please share your experience.

 

Concerting(Performing) - That is a huge part of the equation I agree. The software does not provide it at all. 
Everyone who uses software solution has to take care of this subject on his own, this can be challenging. (At least play for your fiends, family)

 

I would say for kids the approach that uses only software(without a human factor) in most cases is useless because kids need a guidance. Some systems allows communication between an instructor (which may have no musical skills at all - it can be anybody ) and a student in terms of assignments. For instance you can assign certain homework to each student in a group. As they progress they send reports to you.

With adults it works differently, since they do not obey and do what they want ;) .
For those who wants to learn the software provides very good guidance line.

 

Just a note: I saw how one of a pianist (tracked by software) was surprised to find out that he misses notes from a piece he performs on regular basis. 
He had a good reaction that he needs more practice. It is just an example that not everything that looks perfect is actually perfect ;)

 

Jokeyman123 I know you are teaching a music. 
Have you ever reviewed any software tutoring system?
Which one it was?
Did you try to embed software in the teaching process?
Did you compare results of your students who used software with results of those who did not?

The ability to integrate solid software solution(keyword - solid) in the teaching process appeared only several years ago.

 

I do not ask a question - Did you compare results of independent software only student with your own students?

 

Thanks for sharing your opinion it is interesting to read.

 

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