CasioCTK

Hawaii guitar tone

15 posts in this topic

Hi guys,

I need advice how to create (or even better where to download from) Hawaii guitar tone for MZ-X300.

Thanks in advance

Ladislav

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On 6. 8. 2017 at 4:02 PM, BradMZ said:

Do you mean a lap steel?

Yes Brad, it is probably lap steel guitar. Do you know how to create sound similar to that? Or where to download it from?

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On 06/08/2017 at 10:44 AM, CasioCTK said:

Hi guys,

I need advice how to create (or even better where to download from) Hawaii guitar tone for MZ-X300.

Thanks in advance

Ladislav

http://www.steelloops.com/

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Sadly, this reminds me ( As always, just my opinion guys! ) of those " bad old days" of 10 - 15 years ago, when "home studios" were rushing to buy every sample-loop library/collection/cd, that came on the market!

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(sic): " Buy our pristine collection of loops and you'll no longer have to be able to play ANYTHING - 'cos WE'LL play it for you"!!

 

"Just slice-and-dice a few lyrics from hit songs you've heard, released in the past 25 years, line them up (roughly!) with a random selection of our ( "pristine", remember!! ) loops, and you'll have your own "unique" song......... that sounds strangely similar to all the OTHER "unique" songs that are posted on the, various, home-studio, "unique - songs" websites!! "

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Remember, I'm talking about the early to mid 2000's ( and even, in a few instances, the late '90's!! ) when there were, literally, hundreds of such products - and countless sites where you could post your "finished product"!!

 

In terms of the total number of home/project-studios around back then, I would, confidently, "guess" that the vast majority approached the genesis of the "loop-collection" ( pop, funk, country, etc - you name it and you'll have been able to find it!! No problem!! :) ), as a short-cut of short cuts to creating a 3 minute classic!!

 

There is a brilliant line, in one of the replies from the Gearslutz post, that ALENK points to in his reply above:-

 

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" Why not take inspiration from the sound you're hearing in your head, and EXPAND on it, instead of trying to COPY it ? " !!

 

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I'm totally aware that some of you will think I'm sounding a bit ( or a lot! ) " holier-than-thou ", we ARE, after all, owners of an "Accompaniement" keyboard which many other pianists and synth players will feel is, in itself, a "shortcut" to creating a "Performance" or the basis of a multitrack recording! 

Fair comment! ........ EXCEPT........

 

..... You STILL have to have IDEAS! - Whether you're creating the beginnings of a new, ORIGINAL, song, which will, maybe, eventually lead to a full-blown multitrack on Sonar, Cubase, Logic, or whatever, or even if the song will remain as an X500 "sketch-pad", that never goes any further, but which will still always have a "life" on the brilliant keyboard in which it was produced - It remains YOUR IDEA! YOUR CREATION!

 

OR...... If you're creating an arrangement for a "Cover" - An idea that's been bouncing around inside your head, and which, now, with the aid of the X500, you can, again, as with the "Original", give life to!

You can make it something to perform at a gig that has YOUR inimitable signature!

YOUR IDEA!

 

And what if you really are "just" using the Performance aspects at gigs, with no pretence or ambition at "originality"?!? ......... So What?!?

 

We aren't all fortunate enough to still experience the joys of playing alongside 4 or 5 other musicians, all in sync and in "sympathy" with each other..... BUT, we can STILL create a more-than reasonable facsimile of the sound we want ( and, maybe, remember with fond nostalgia! ), thanks to the excellence of the X500!........

 

....... AND, we still have to be able to PLAY!! To recreate OUR IDEAS!!

 

In closing - and with GENUINE apologies for this ridiculously long reply ( and I MEAN, genuine apologies! ) which may seem to have gone way off-topic, can I suggest something from deep within my musical soul? -

 

- We should, all of us, NEVER get the same, or, even, ANY, satisfaction, from the efforts of others, that we "claim", in whatever way, as our own, when compared to  the indescribable feeling of satisfaction that we do from our OWN work and creativity!

 

You might labour, long and hard, in the edit screens of the X500 for that, elusive, " HAWAIIAN GUITAR " sound, and wind-up with a result that sounds more like " PLUCKED PAN PIPES PLAYED ON THE STERN OF A CHINESE RIVER BOAT ".... But I bet it'll sound BEAUTIFUL!! 

 

And, do you know what LADISLAV? It WON'T take long - and it'll be ALL YOURS!! 

 

And I bet you'll feel TERRIFIC!! :)

 

Apologies again guys ( PLEASE don't hate me!! )

 

Take care all

Chris

 

 

 

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On 8/9/2017 at 9:18 AM, CasioCTK said:

Yes Brad, it is probably lap steel guitar. Do you know how to create sound similar to that? Or where to download it from?

 

I'm probably the best person to ask for this.  I recently spent 6 weeks restoring a lap steel, 1950 Fender Dual 8 Professional.  I sampled the guitar with intentions of making a tone for the MZX series.  I started with a test that uses only 1 sample.  It's actually enough to get a good idea of what a full sampled guitar will sound like.  Not surprisingly, it ends up sounding much like the factory clean guitar samples of a Telecaster. There is a timbre difference that gives the Dual 8 more of a steel guitar flavor than the Telecaster.  Unfortunately 90% of the sound of a lap steel is in technique.  You'll need to know how to play your keyboard like a lap steel and you'll need to know what NOT to attempt.  

 

Hawaiian lap steel is traditionally non-pedal steel guitar.  Pedal steel is heard more in country music. "Steel" refers to the bar that is used to fret the strings. Slides done with the bar and bar vibrato are part of what makes the sound unique. Unfortunately the use of pitch bend to create slides alters the timbre of samples, making them sound less like the real thing. In order to remain more believable, slides should be kept to a minimum and within a two note range. Also to remain believable, don't use more than 2 or 3 fingers to play the keys. Lap steel players use 2 finger picks and a thumb pick to play most things.  Keep these tips in mind and you'll have a better shot at sounding more convincing.

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In this thread I was questioning whether or not the pedal steel guitar heard in a particular YouTube video, which the author claimed was done only with an XW-P1 (that claim was probably due to a language/culture difference), was synthesized on the XW-P1 (I very much doubted it) or was real. In reply Brad posted a link to a video about a VST that seems to do a pretty good job. Of course, the VST is based on samples and I expect you would have to sequence things carefully to sound convincing. I don't know whether live play even with the VST could do that but maybe it has some common built-in "articulations" that you could trigger. I'm not motivated enough to watch the video again to find out. :P  

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ALENK - Like you, I listened to the "pedal-steel" sound ( in the thread you pointed to ) in total disbelief!

"No Way"!! I thought! That simply CAN'T be real - although " MIKE MARTIN " , ( for whom I have a HUGE amount of respect having watched several of his videos)  stating that it WAS, got me wondering!

 

SO, I trawled the 'net and came across a video made by someone called " LARRY LEVIN " , who you guys may well know, but, I confess, I'd never heard of!

 

Using a YAMAHA PSR-S950, in a video made in 2013 (!!), he created the most AMAZING pedal-steel guitar sound I've EVER heard! It was simply ASTONISHING!

 

In the video he's seen triggering the accompaniement chord changes using just his thumb, whilst operating the pitch-bend and mod wheels at the same time, and, obviously, playing the lead phrases with his right hand.

It's BRILLIANT!!

 

I, again, confess, I know virtually nothing about the Yamaha, but what I DO know is that, once again, BRADMZ is absolutely RIGHT in the inferences of his above reply!

 

As BRAD infers, it's the technique(s) used by the player, as much as the authenticity of the sound, which will, in the end, determine the authenticity of what's being heard.

 

I will now listen to that XW-P1 video with totally different ears -

 

- Whilst seeing just what I can produce out of the X500!! :)

 

Take care all

Chris

 

 

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On 8/11/2017 at 7:43 AM, Songwriter2015 said:

 

As BRAD infers, it's the technique(s) used by the player, as much as the authenticity of the sound, which will, in the end, determine the authenticity of what's being heard.

 

 

Brad implied, you inferred. :D

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Just to be clear when Mike said he thought it was real he meant he thought it was a real lap-steel guitar not a synthesized lap-steel guitar sound from the XW-P1. That same poster has other videos with impossibly good guitar sounds in the background that no one else on the planet has been able to coax from the XW-P1. I choose to believe those sounds aren't coming from the P1 and that any implicit claim to the contrary can be chalked up to a language difference (the poster does not speak English natively if at all). 

 

But I do agree wholeheartedly that the performance itself makes all the difference in emulating an instrument. Do it wrong and even a great sample or tone won't sound like the instrument in question. Do it right and even a supposedly poor sample or tone can work great. 

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ALENK - PLEASE don't think for one moment I was doubting your opinion about THAT particular video mate! Quite the opposite!

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I said I'd " listen to it with different ears "......

..... and that, then, " I'd see what I could produce out of the X500 "

 

I've not, so far, ( in about 3 1/2 hours of experimenting ) got anywhere NEAR a sound I'd want to use in a "Live" situation - and certainly not in a recording that meant anything!!

 

If you check-out my reply again, I don't, at any point, say anything approaching an opinion that the "sound" is genuine. In fact ( even with "different ears"! ) I cant bring myself to the opinion that it truthfully WAS programmed, in whatever way, from the XW-P1!

 

In contrast, ( unless an awful lot of some of the best trick photography ever seen, was being used! ) I DO believe in the reality of what I witnessed, with eyes AND ears, what " Mr. Levin " was playing!!

 

My apologies for misunderstanding the quote from "Mike" - but I'm guessing most might consider it an easy mistake to make? 

 

I also, obviously, because, how could I, had no idea of "this guy's" other videos with similar "claims. If that's the right word?

 

Its judgemental, I suppose, but might he be what could be labelled a "Fantasy-Merchant"??

 

Anyway, hope you don't hold any lasting angst over my reply which was wholly "innocent", and simply my own opinion ( probably too long, as usual ) about a video which, in truth, seemed very difficult to accept at face value.

 

Take care mate

Chris

 

 

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SCOTT HAMLIN - Damn!! Shot down by grammar - not for the first time! :)

 

Oh those wasted years! ;)

 

Cheers Scott

Chris

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2 hours ago, Songwriter2015 said:

Its judgemental, I suppose, but might he be what could be labelled a "Fantasy-Merchant"??

 

Could be. I don't trust any implicit claims he makes. I say implicit because the titles of his videos strongly imply he uses only an XW-P1 and a CTK-7200 to make all the sounds we hear. Sometimes I have to wonder if ANY of the sounds we hear are from those keyboards. For example, check out the video of his cover of "When a Man Loves a Woman." Do you believe the vocals are from one of those keyboards? How about the blues guitar? But if I'm wrong and it's all legit, the man is a genius. 

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ALENK - No! No! NO!!!!

Not in a million years!!!!

 

I'm not going to sail off on another of my long-winded posts! For once  I don't need to!

 

I HATE to sound "nasty", 'cos that's NOT who I am, ALEN, but this guy MUST be a complete "dreamer"!!

A "Walter Mitty" with bells on!!

 

I don't know about you mate, but, including my "ALESIS ADAT era", I've run a digital studio for 25 years, and I've been fortunate enough to experience some truly gifted musicians.

 

Before being forced to "retire" from live gigging, in '98, due to my spinal problems, I'd played for decades, "at home" and across the world, in bands with some brilliant players ( I won't "name-drop for fear of you thinking that I'M fantasising!! :D ) -

 

- My point simply being, NOT to "blow my own trumpet", but to state, categorically, that the GREATEST of the great musicians Ive been fortunate enough to share music with would not have been capable of producing the sounds that "he" claims to have done from that/those keyboard(s)!!

 

The M.L.A.WOMAN track, for me, is the clincher!!.....

 

....... Sorry, but just NOT POSSIBLE!!

 

Take care all

Chris

 

 

 

 

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