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Potential sensor/keyboard problem with fast key attack


bahman

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When I play a key with very rapid attack and release (e.g. a fast appogiatura starting on a black key and falling on a white key) I noticed that sometimes the short note keeps sounding as if the corresponding key is still pressed. The sound will not stop until that key is pressed again. I became aware of this problem when a friend used my keyboard to play a piece with many fast ornamentations. After a couple of minutes there were 3 or 4 notes continuously sounding in the background as if the keys were still pressed! Unfortunately, I tried to repeat this behaviour and I am able to reproduce it with any key of the keyboard after a couple of attempts. So, I believe this is not a problem with a specific sensor. And this has nothing to do with force. The key just needs to be pressed using a very fast attack. I can record and post the audio recording of this if anyone is interested. 

 

Since there are many professional players in this forum, has any of you experienced this behaviour? And would such a behaviour be covered by the warranty (within the EU)? I have the keyboard for just one year now and the warranty goes for two years. I was thinking of trying to activate the warranty anyway because some keys in the middle octaves started to sound "clunky" (like plastic hitting plastic without any damping/muffling) and the problem is gradually affecting other frequently used keys.  

 

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I purchased my keyboard in the US and have had it for almost a year now.  I have not experienced this problem so far even after trying to duplicate what you described.  I tried for a good 30 seconds of rapid play and could not duplicate it.  Does it only occur after a certain period of time?  If you do have a recording of it, that may be helpful.  Thanks.

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I will try to record it today. It is quite easy to replicate once you know what to do. It is all about rapid attack and release. The sensors will register the initial key press but will *not* register the key release. So, the sound will  continue to play until you press the key again. At least this what a MIDI monitor tells me. 


First thing to do is to select sound that does not decay, such as an organ or a synth.

 

Then the ideia is to  "pluck" a white key with just the tip of a finger. So, raise your hand above the keyboard. Close your hand and extend just one finger. Then let the hand fall down with gravity and slap/pluck just the tip of any white key with the very tip of the extended finger. The finger will not rest on the key at all. It will just slap/pluck it. This is exactly the same movement as plucking a string with the tip of an extended finger. Just imagine that the tip of the white key is the string to be plucked. And this is not about pounding the key at all!  A light "pluck" is more than enough because the only goal is to maximize velocity. For me this procedure unfortunately worked with any key I have tried after a couple of tries at most. 

 

Of course, one could say that the exercise above is irrelevant because no-one plays a keyboard like that. I agree. The big problem is that you can also replicate such behaviour with normal playing. For me it happens with grace notes and fast appogiaturas or accaciaturas. An example is when a finger rapidly presses and  then "slides" from a black key into a white key as in a chromatic appogiatura. And this is exactly like "plucking" the black key. So, the problem described above will occur. The only good news is that with a piano tone at least the sound will decay fast :-)

 

Anyway, I will try to make a short recording of this today.

 

 

 

 

 

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So, here is a short video demonstrating the problem. This can be replicated with any key of the keyboard. The sensors are not registering the key release, at least according to the MIDI messages. Whenever this problem happens there is one note-on message for that key but no note-off message. Therefore the sounds keeps playing until the key is pressed and released again and the note-off is correctly generated.  Some extra info: the keyboard has the latest firmware version (v. 1.14, April 2017) . I have the keyboard connected to the SP-33 pedal unit but tested it also with the pedal unit disconnected. The problem happens with or without a MIDI USB connection. 

 

I have not yet tested any other Casio keyboard with the same keyboard technology. As far as I know, this keyboard is used in most or even all current Privia PX and Celviano AP models. So, I am not sure this is a problem of my particular PX-560 or if it is just a "feature" of this keyboard technology. 

Px560.m4v

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Thanks for the video.  I tried to duplicate your video technique with multiple organ and synth sounds all across my keyboard and was still not able to duplicate the problem.  Just curious, what sound did you use in your video?  I wonder if this is related to your other post about note off velocity not working.  I have never adjusted any note off settings (I am not even sure where or if this is a setting option) on my keyboard that I can recall, so I am not sure why yours is behaving the way it is.  Hopefully some other users can try too and see if they can duplicate it.  If not then maybe a warranty repair is worth considering.

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Thanks for the replies so far!


1. This unfortunately happens with any tone. I think I was using Synth 04 (Mellow Saw Lead). 

 

2. It also happens over MIDI without local control, i.e. while using the 560 just as a MIDI controller. 

 

3. This happens with any key I have tried in any octave. The black notes are a real issue in normal playing since fast grace notes or appogiaturas  that can be played by sliding down from a black into a white key will often create this situation. With the white keys, playing a fast sliding glissando will sometimes leave a couple of keys playing. This will not be that noticeable with piano or fast decaying tones, as it will sound like normal sustain or reverberation.  But it makes the keyboard completely unusable with any slow or non-decaying tone like organs, synths or some EPs. A friend who is a jazz keyboard player discovered this problem less than one minute after switching from a piano tone to an organ tone. Half of the time he played some fast jazz ornamentation some note would keep sounding after being released...

 

4. This is independent of the MIDI note-off velocity message. However, I actually started testing the keyboard with PianoTeq after discovering this issue to check whether this was a problem related to the internal sound engine or if it could also be reproduced over MIDI. That was when I found that the 560 was not sending the note-off velocity over MIDI. However, I have now the default MIDI settings in the PX-560 and have reset PianoTeq's and the ASIO driver's settings and the MIDI note-off velocity now seems to work fine in PianoTeq. I will test it properly over the weekend. However, the problem with the keys still remains. The video was shot after resetting the MIDI settings...

 

 

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