Tough Decision(s) - Keep the MZ-X500 or not?

[Frankie J]

Hello Keyboard Experts,

 

I received my MZ-X500 a week ago Wednesday (Dec 6th) and have since been overwhelming myself with the myriad of possibilities this instrument offers.  I'm pretty sure I got a good deal on it even though it was an "open box"/demo model (called B-Ware here in Germany).  Everywhere now they seem to be going for a lot more.  No scratches and looked brand new to me.  The first thing I did was upgrade the firmware to 1.50 and restored to factory settings.  It came with a USB stick that contained additional Tones, Rhythms, etc., installed that.

 

I guess my main questions are (asked here to spare readers the lengthy append below, if so desired):

 

1 - How does the Casio MZ-X500 stack up (in terms of function, price and quality) against the Yamaha PSR-EW400 or PSR-E453 for someone learning piano and with interests in music synthesis?  Should I keep it or return it and opt for something else?

2 - It seems the whole keyboard moves a very little bit when striking a key or more and the keys click a little bit at the bottom of the key travel.  Is this normal?

     I did see the forum entry where someone got their keyboard repaired and the recommendation to have it done under warranty.  Noted.

3 - Sometimes the touch screen doesn't seem to react.  Is it the way I am touching it or a response time issue?  Does using a stylus (for better accuracy) make sense?

 

I will be playing the instrument mainly for my personal enjoyment and if I ever get good enough, the enjoyment of others.  I have a somewhat decent singing voice (some kind of mix between Dean Martin and Johnny Cash - I like to think so), so singing could also play a role in my musical endeavors.  When I see some of these YouTube videos I realize I have zero musical talent in comparison.  However, those videos can also serve as inspiration.

 

I had been considering a Yamaha PSR-EW400 (less expensive) and then after visiting the local music store, also a Yamaha PSR-E453 (even less expensive).  The E453 was still in the box so I couldn't try it out and then it was sold when I went back a few days later.  So I only have YouTube videos and forums and my personal experience with the MZ-X500 to determine if I made the right decision.  After playing around a little bit, I read through both manuals completely (some parts multiple times).  Now I am racing against the clock (I have a two week grace period to return the MX) to assure myself I have purchased a machine appropriate for me and that I will take advantage of most, or at least some, of the great features this keyboard has to offer.  I also have a Casio AP-22 (APS or APK, I think) e-piano, a Keilwerth Bb Clarinet, and a Selmer (I think) Bb clarinet.  I am not a professional musician or I would probably say I am not a musician at all.  I've had 2 years of piano lessons 45 years ago (gulp, that's a long time, eh?), played clarinet in junior high school (40 years ago) and more intensely played bassoon in high school.  When I was actively playing music, I enjoyed it a lot and found it to be rewarding.  So now that I am retired, my desire to play music has been rekindled.  It was precipitated about a month ago at a birthday party where the entertainer there had a nord stage 2 keyboard/e-piano. That got me playing around with synthesizer apps on my iPad and subsequently GarageBand on my Mac.  So much for background.

 

The MZ has a great sound and multitude of features that will probably take me to the end of my life to master if I could even achieve mastery by then (I doubt it).  So the past week I have been experimenting with the MZ, Garageband and other iPad synth apps, checking out learning piano and clarinet via the internet, practicing piano (just learned that there's such a thing as Blues scales - that's cool), practicing clarinet and am now just about ready to go completely crazy.

 

I worked most of my life as a Systems Engineer so I love technical stuff but music synthesis and DSP is currently just blowing me away.  I will probably be putting that aside for the moment and trying to develop a disciplined approach to learning what to do with a keyboard and at the same time furthering my musical skill both for piano (I'll probably have to sell the Celviano because of space limitations - but maybe I can stack my MZ on top ) and clarinet.  Oh, and just for kicks, I ordered a Melodica that should get here tomorrow (no problems with price for that - I got the non pro version for 17€).  I'll be 66 in February so I guess I fall in the senior citizen budding musician category.   

 

I was going to summarize my questions here but that wouldn't be fair with such a long entry so I've put them at the top.  If you've made it to here, thanks very much for your interest and please make whatever comments you have (and thanks in advance for those).  Sorry for the long entry.

  

Edited December 15, 2017 by Frankie J
Removed pricing info as per forum guidelines.

[Rick Stirling]

1. The PSR-EW400 does have 76 keys, but both Yamahas you mentioned above have only 48 voice polyphony versus 128 for the X500.  Personally, I would not buy a keyboard today with less than 128 voice polyphony.  In my opinion the X500 is a tremendous value and holds its own with my Korg PA600 and Korg Kronos 2

 

2. The key bed is one area where a manufacturer of keyboards can shave costs. Casio did not put a lot of money into the key bed on the X500, however unless you need a weighted key bed for your piano practice, the X500 has sufficient utility for an electronic instrument. You could always add an extrenal weighted keyboard controller in the future if needed. Decent 88 key controllers range in price from ~$300 to ~$2000  Here's a nice one for just $1000 ;-)

[AlenK]

You say you have interests in music synthesis. If so, the MZ-X500 walks all over the E453/EW400 models. In fact, from what I can see in the E453/EW400 user's manual. voice editing on those keyboards is very rudimentary. IMHO, you'll learn much more about synthesis - and be able to create much better tones - on the MZ-X500.

[Rick Stirling]

1 hour ago, AlenK said:

You say you have interests in music synthesis. If so, the MZ-X500 walks all over the E453/EW400 models. In fact, from what I can see in the E453/EW400 user's manual. voice editing on those keyboards is very rudimentary. IMHO, you'll learn much more about synthesis - and be able to create much better tones - on the MZ-X500.

 

Absolutely!

[Frankie J]

2 hours ago, Rick Sterling said:

 

Absolutely!

 

Thanks for the comments. If I opted for one of the less expensive and less capable Yamahas, then I thought I might use software on my Mac (and/or iPad) for music/sound synthesis, for example, the free version of the Nord Sample Editor or GarageBand. They probably aren't as well integrated as the functionality already built into the MZ, I'm guessing.

 

[Frankie J]

9 hours ago, Rick Sterling said:

1. The PSR-EW400 does have 76 keys, but both Yamahas you mentioned above have only 48 voice polyphony versus 128 for the X500.  Personally, I would not buy a keyboard today with less than 128 voice polyphony.  In my opinion the X500 is a tremendous value and holds its own with my Korg PA600 and Korg Kronos 2

 

2. The key bed is one area where a manufacturer of keyboards can shave costs. Casio did not put a lot of money into the key bed on the X500, however unless you need a weighted key bed for your piano practice, the X500 has sufficient utility for an electronic instrument. You could always add an extrenal weighted keyboard controller in the future if needed. Decent 88 key controllers range in price from ~$300 to ~$2000  Here's a nice one for just $1000 ;-)

 

Great suggestion!  Thanks.  Do you think I could use my old (15 years old) Celviano e-piano as a keyboard controller (it has MIDI I/O)?

If so, then I'm off to buy some MIDI cables!

 

I wouldn't get much for it anyway and I like it (especially the numerous songs on it, some of which, I would like to learn). It has 88 weighted, full size, velocity sensitive keys.

 

[MrSteveVee]

10 minutes ago, Frankie J said:

 

Thanks for the comments. If I opted for one of the less expensive and less capable Yamahas, then I thought I might use software on my Mac (and/or iPad) for music/sound synthesis, for example, the free version of the Nord Sample Editor or GarageBand. They probably aren't as well integrated as the functionality already built into the MZ, I'm guessing.

 

 

This is true of course and we all have different ways to enjoy our hobbies and professions. For me part of the attraction of a workstation/arranger is that it is all in the keyboard. I press a button and twirl a knob and it reacts. There is no incompatibility, or delays, no loss of connection, no trailing wires or  third party plugins that have to be bought or registered, no worries that it might be incompatible and corrupt something, its just all in the box ready at hand. Switch on and away you go.  

Steve

[Casiokid]

I find when touching the touchscreen, that the combined contact of the skin and fingernail  of the fingertip  is the most reliable way to select functions. (Maybe a static/earthing issue??)

 

I use an M-Audio controller keyboard (61 note) with my MZ-X500 as  a two manual organ set up with Nord 27 bass pedals.  The keybed of the M-Audio is lovely and feels great under the fingers -Casio take note !    (See my earlier post 'MZ-X500 as an Organ' to see a photo' and details of my rig)

[MrSteveVee]

27 minutes ago, Frankie J said:

 

Great suggestion!  Thanks.  Do you think I could use my old (15 years old) Celviano e-piano as a keyboard controller (it has MIDI I/O)?

If so, then I'm off to buy some MIDI cables!

 

I wouldn't get much for it anyway and I like it (especially the numerous songs on it, some of which, I would like to learn). It has 88 weighted, full size, velocity sensitive keys.

 

 

Assuming the keyboard sends standard midi, then yes you probably could use it as a MIDI controller.

 

Now I am in the same age bracket and situation as yourself and also like our good colleague Rick Sterlin, I too am lucky enough to have a Korg Kronos, which is probably the most complex workstation on the planet! I spent many, many hours running round in circles in frustration with this board for a good year or so until a few months ago when I bought a B stock MX-500 to try out a Synth/arranger hybrid.

 

Now my 500 has the keybed clatter on most keys so that's a bit annoying so I started to use the Korg as a Midi controller. I personally found that I was just spending too long trying to see what I could control , setting up, Midi between the 2 (both ways) and never using the 500 for anything much.

 

Over the last week or two, I have disconnected the boards and I am now just using the 500 on its own, and by severing all the distractions I have learned so much more about this board, its extremely versatile and I have been having great fun and hardly notice the clattering keybed.

 

So my advice would be to forget trying to get the perfect setup for now, instead just concentrate on the keyboard and see how much enjoyment you get. Play with it, change things. don't worry about setting up a perfect song, just press buttons, slide sliders and have a ball. Do this for a good solid week and I think that you will start to get a good feel for the 500 and you will then be able to answer your own original questions

 

Have fun

Steve

 

[Brad Saucier]

8 hours ago, Frankie J said:

 

Thanks for the comments. If I opted for one of the less expensive and less capable Yamahas, then I thought I might use software on my Mac (and/or iPad) for music/sound synthesis, for example, the free version of the Nord Sample Editor or GarageBand. They probably aren't as well integrated as the functionality already built into the MZ, I'm guessing.

 

I looked at the Nord sample editor a while back just out of curiosity. From what I can tell, it produces files compatible only with Nord products.  Unless you own a Nord, it might not be very useful.  The MZX series has it's own sample manager which produces files compatible only with the MZX series.  

[Leonh]

MZ -X500 offers much more possibilities than Yamahas which you mentioned and I guess you got very good deal on MZ so I would keep it unless you want to spend quite a  bit more on other board with similar capabilities  I.e have look at Korg PA 700 very similar but the price ?

[Frankie J]

12 hours ago, MrSteveVee said:

 

This is true of course and we all have different ways to enjoy our hobbies and professions. For me part of the attraction of a workstation/arranger is that it is all in the keyboard. I press a button and twirl a knob and it reacts. There is no incompatibility, or delays, no loss of connection, no trailing wires or  third party plugins that have to be bought or registered, no worries that it might be incompatible and corrupt something, its just all in the box ready at hand. Switch on and away you go.  

Steve

 

Thanks for the advice, Steve.

[Frankie J]

12 hours ago, Casiokid said:

I find when touching the touchscreen, that the combined contact of the skin and fingernail  of the fingertip  is the most reliable way to select functions. (Maybe a static/earthing issue??)

 

I use an M-Audio controller keyboard (61 note) with my MZ-X500 as  a two manual organ set up with Nord 27 bass pedals.  The keybed of the M-Audio is lovely and feels great under the fingers -Casio take note !    (See my earlier post 'MZ-X500 as an Organ' to see a photo' and details of my rig)

 

Thanks. I will try refining my touch screen technique using your advice.

 

And thanks for the info the M-Audio info.  They caught my eye (after Rick's comment above, I went a lookin') and they seem to be reasonably priced.

[Frankie J]

12 hours ago, MrSteveVee said:

 

Assuming the keyboard sends standard midi, then yes you probably could use it as a MIDI controller.

 

Now I am in the same age bracket and situation as yourself and also like our good colleague Rick Sterlin, I too am lucky enough to have a Korg Kronos, which is probably the most complex workstation on the planet! I spent many, many hours running round in circles in frustration with this board for a good year or so until a few months ago when I bought a B stock MX-500 to try out a Synth/arranger hybrid.

 

Now my 500 has the keybed clatter on most keys so that's a bit annoying so I started to use the Korg as a Midi controller. I personally found that I was just spending too long trying to see what I could control , setting up, Midi between the 2 (both ways) and never using the 500 for anything much.

 

Over the last week or two, I have disconnected the boards and I am now just using the 500 on its own, and by severing all the distractions I have learned so much more about this board, its extremely versatile and I have been having great fun and hardly notice the clattering keybed.

 

So my advice would be to forget trying to get the perfect setup for now, instead just concentrate on the keyboard and see how much enjoyment you get. Play with it, change things. don't worry about setting up a perfect song, just press buttons, slide sliders and have a ball. Do this for a good solid week and I think that you will start to get a good feel for the 500 and you will then be able to answer your own original questions

 

Have fun

Steve

 

 

Thanks Steve.  I'm gonna give it a try!

[Frankie J]

7 hours ago, BradMZ said:

I looked at the Nord sample editor a while back just out of curiosity. From what I can tell, it produces files compatible only with Nord products.  Unless you own a Nord, it might not be very useful.  The MZX series has it's own sample manager which produces files compatible only with the MZX series.  

 

Thanks Brad. Where I picked up that software name was this Ralph Maten video on YouTube:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OX686EONfA

 

After more carefully watching it again, I think he said the software he was talking about was just like the Nord Sample Editor and now I guess he was talking about the Casio Sample Manager for MZX.  That wasn't clear to me at first.  Anyway, I have already downloaded the Casio Sample Manager and flipped quickly through the manual for it.  Based on your advice I will be removing the Nord software from my Mac.  Thanks again.

 

Frank

 

[Frankie J]

3 hours ago, Leonh said:

MZ -X500 offers much more possibilities than Yamahas which you mentioned and I guess you got very good deal on MZ so I would keep it unless you want to spend quite a  bit more on other board with similar capabilities  I.e have look at Korg PA 700 very similar but the price ?

 

Thanks Leon. Yes, I just looked at the Korg and it costs roughly 2.5 times what paid for the MZ-X500.  This is what sort of intuitively drew me to the MZ in the first place: so many features and capabilities for a very competitive price. Even if I got one of the Yamaha boards I would still be spending more on other accompanying hardware just to catch up with the MZ.

 

[Frankie J]

So I've decided to keep the MZ-X500! A very big thanks to all for the advice which helped me make the decision. It is connected to my Celviano AP22S so that I can have a weighted 88 keyboard to practice piano on and have fun practicing piano the Celviano keyboard using the instruments of the MZ. I hope not to be too much of a bother on the forum with my other beginner questions.  Once again, BIG thanks to all!.

[MrSteveVee]

Great

 

[Rudolph R-N R]

I think you made a choice that you’ll appreciate long into the future.  I had a psr e423, same model as the e453, but current about 10 years ago.   At least in that earlier model, overall the sounds are not anywhere near on a par with the X500 sounds.  The problem with these cheaper boards is there’s so little editing capability of the sounds, and the user interface is kludgey to the point of making most tasks a chore.  The pads, Hex Tones,  the synthesis engine, the sound quality, the speakers,  the user interface, the auto accompaniment features- they’re all a big step up from the ESW-400.

 

“It came with a USB stick that contained additional Tones, Rhythms, etc., installed”
Very curious what was on that USB stick.  I’ve never heard of there being additional Tones, Rhytms, etc. available.  Very interested in this!!!

 

 

[Frankie J]

52 minutes ago, Randelph said:

I think you made a choice that you’ll appreciate long into the future.  I had a psr e423, same model as the e453, but current about 10 years ago.   At least in that earlier model, overall the sounds are not anywhere near on a par with the X500 sounds.  The problem with these cheaper boards is there’s so little editing capability of the sounds, and the user interface is kludgey to the point of making most tasks a chore.  The pads, Hex Tones,  the synthesis engine, the sound quality, the speakers,  the user interface, the auto accompaniment features- they’re all a big step up from the ESW-400.

 

“It came with a USB stick that contained additional Tones, Rhythms, etc., installed”
Very curious what was on that USB stick.  I’ve never heard of there being additional Tones, Rhytms, etc. available.  Very interested in this!!!

 

 

 

Thanks for the reinforcement, Randolph.  On the stick is a MUSICDAT folder that contains only an EDM.ZAL file.  When I loaded it and inspected the Registers I noted a whole bunch of Ralph Maten stuff, which initially made me think it might have been used by Ralph Maten at a show or demo until i realized that stuff all came off the EDM.ZAL.  Since after loading some the registers, strange (to me) things happened (like  two instruments mapped to Upper 1 on the left hand side of the display), I restored to factory settings.  I figured I could go back to the stick EDM.ZAL anytime, probably after I learned more about the MZ.  The card that was attached to it is in German (which I mostly understand) so I could scan and post that if there's some interest. I see no mention of further distribution prohibition or copyright, so I guess I could upload the EDM.ZAL file as well.  Maybe Brad could comment on the appropriateness of doing that. (Brad?)

 

I forgot to say that the card has a compatibility statement for Firmware Version 1.21 and the EDM.Zal is dated May 23, 2016 so it may very be already uploaded.

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Frankie J
I forgot to mention the Firmware level and file date.

[Rick Stirling]

Frankie, 

 

You might want to read this thread ...

 

cheers,

Rick

 

[Frankie J]

Thanks Rick,

 

I sorta gathered that but didn't much care since I'm such a newbie and hadn't saved anything to Registers (or anywhere else for that matter).  I also guessed that ZAL files mean ALL, everything, no exceptions, etc. Is that guess correct?

 

Now that I have learned how to back things up, I do that. There is some cool stuff on there though. 

 

 

[Rudolph R-N R]

Thanks Frankie, i’d forgotten about these files!

[Frankie J]

Sorry Rick.  I should have read the thread link you sent first before replying. Your suggestion is a very good one that makes perfect sense. Thanks.