seeking a better piano sound

[socman56]

Hi, all:

 

I'm not sure how this question is going to fare since the only related post I could find went unanswered. But here goes.

 

I'm an amateur, straight-ahead jazz pianist who plays in various group settings. When possible, I play an acoustic piano. But in rehearsal studios or playing out, I need an electronic keyboard. About a year ago, I bought a used PX-350 in excellent condition. I love the action of the keyboard, but I can't stand the sound. For the record, I use only the grand piano setting, and I run the unit through a PA, a powered speaker or a guitar amp. But no matter how I adjust the EQ settings or the volume, the sound of the keyboard is always too bright and thin, and if I optimize the sound (speaking euphemistically) for soloing, it's terrible for comping, and vice versa. I can't find anything in the user's guide that speaks to this issue. So ....

 

Does anybody have any suggestions for improving the sound of this keyboard? Would a keyboard-specific amp make a dramatic difference? (Seems unlikely, but I'm clueless about this subject.) Alternatively, are there any effects devices that I could attach to the keyboard to modify the signal going to the amp or the PA to get a more authentic piano sound? I really like a lot about the keyboard -- the price, the portability, the feel. But if I can't improve the sound, I'm tempted to sell the Privia and upgrade to something better.

 

Thanks.

[Joe Muscara]

Amplification can matter a lot. Have you tried headphones? Not for playing out, but to see if the sound you're looking for is closer in headphones. If it is, that means your amplification choices are less than desirable. Guitar amps don't have the full range a piano sound requires. Powered speakers and PAs can, but it depends on how they're set up. Lots of keyboard players I know use powered speakers like the QSC K series, JBL EON, and others as an "amp." But I also know a few guys who aren't happy with those and only like the sounds of some brands/models I don't remember. Maybe you're that particular.  

[CAVA]

I had a similar issue and my low cost solution was to connect a 5.1 Speaker system with a Sub.  This is Logitech X-540 system available for PCs and I connected the headphones output to it so I can have the "stereo" effect and I placed the small speakers behind the piano.  The Sub is below in the floor and the "bass" effect is set at 50%.

 

The result is a more full sound with more bass. I also connect a set of headphones to the Logitech system for a better audio quality in headphones.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

[Brad Saucier]

Are you using the line outs or the headphone jack to connect to your amp?  The manual says that line out sound quality will change depending on wether a headphone jack is plugged in.  Try it both ways to see if one is better for you.

 

[socman56]

Thanks, Joe Muscara, CAVA and BradMZ. I really appreciate your comments. I'm going to incorporate your suggestions at home this week, and on Sunday, I'll have access to a PA, a guitar amp and a bass amp -- no keyboard amp, alas -- at a friend's rehearsal space, so I'll try to find the time to play around with them to see what sort of improvements I can make. Proving that no good deed goes unpunished, I'll report back next week in the hopes of hearing some follow-up comments and/or suggestions. So thanks again. Now, if somebody could just help me with my playing ....

 

Preston

[Jokeyman123]

I  have/play the PX350 and have played several others-for playing out in various good or not so good acoustic settings-I use a full compact PA system with both linear and parametric equalizer settings, plus 2 10-inch speaker enclosures with bass ducts and horns for high-end frequencies. I  can carry a pretty big room with about 200 watts into these stereo speakers although for solo gigs in a really big room i would use something even bigger than this. A piano has such a wide range of frequencies-it is very difficult getting a good mid-range sound out of any digital piano and still carry the extreme bass and treble octaves. Only a system with full eq will do it IMO. Every room is different and what sounds full in one venue may sound completely crap in another.  A good Peavey or Roland keyboard amp, with at least a 12' speaker will help, but for solo gigs, I need stereo to even get close to an acoustic piano. I used to go out with a custom-made huge single speaker with an 18" driver and 2 horns, but even that didn't sound good enough and decided I needed the stereo sound to get a good solo piano. and as Joe and Brad said, if you want to duplicate the sound out of headphones, it is going to take a little work.

[Joe Muscara]

The opinion of many keyboard players I know is that most "keyboard amps" are crap. They're referring to the Peavey and Roland models.

[cpcohen]

PMFJI --

 

There is an extreme solution to this problem:

 

. . . Use a "software piano" like Pianoteq, instead of the PX-350 sound generator.

 

It may be difficult to gig with a laptop computer, but Pianoteq sounds _way_ better than the PX-350.   It will run OK on a medium-performance laptop (Intel i5 or better).

 

You'll still need a good PA amp/speaker, rather than a "keyboard amp".  Some bass amps are "full-range"; people have reported good results with those.  If the unit has only woofers (no tweeters), it probably won't work well for piano.   I like my ElectroVoice ZXA1 -- nice, undistorted sound, less than 20 pounds.

 

.    Charles  

 

[socman56]

Thanks again for all the advice. Just to follow up, fwiw, the half-assed "solution" I came up with was turning the treble, mid-range and bass dials to zero. The result was a very, very bland sound (to my ears), but not inoffensive. I guess it was sort of like taking powerful bi-polar meds to control manic-depressive mood swings. Not perfect, by any means, but livable, at least for the situations I'm playing in.

 

Preston

[Mrhands]

Buy a VST like Ravenscroft or Keyscape and connect it to your Casio PX-350 or perhaps another MIDI controler like this example

[mik pointe]

For the record I think the "classic" sound option is smoother in turns of dynamic range. The Grand default thing has an unnatural spike at a certain point.

[Davwein]

I bought a keyboard amp to hopefully extend the range of my px350 speakers.  I got the Peavey kb10 - not a great improvement, if any.  But I have a question about how to do the setup.

 

I have a single patch cord that I plug into the L/mono jack.  But I get no sound from the powered speakers unless I put a plug into a headphone jack to kill the inboard speakers.. But the manual says that will alter the sound.  I don't see any other way to turn off the inboard speakers.  Is there more information on how to use the output jacks. Are the recording jacks the same as the amplifier jacks?

[sslyutov]

On 1/15/2018 at 5:19 PM, socman56 said:

Hi, all:

 

I'm not sure how this question is going to fare since the only related post I could find went unanswered. But here goes.

 

I'm an amateur, straight-ahead jazz pianist who plays in various group settings. When possible, I play an acoustic piano. But in rehearsal studios or playing out, I need an electronic keyboard. About a year ago, I bought a used PX-350 in excellent condition. I love the action of the keyboard, but I can't stand the sound. For the record, I use only the grand piano setting, and I run the unit through a PA, a powered speaker or a guitar amp. But no matter how I adjust the EQ settings or the volume, the sound of the keyboard is always too bright and thin, and if I optimize the sound (speaking euphemistically) for soloing, it's terrible for comping, and vice versa. I can't find anything in the user's guide that speaks to this issue. So ....

 

Does anybody have any suggestions for improving the sound of this keyboard? Would a keyboard-specific amp make a dramatic difference? (Seems unlikely, but I'm clueless about this subject.) Alternatively, are there any effects devices that I could attach to the keyboard to modify the signal going to the amp or the PA to get a more authentic piano sound? I really like a lot about the keyboard -- the price, the portability, the feel. But if I can't improve the sound, I'm tempted to sell the Privia and upgrade to something better.

 

Thanks.

I would say it is very difficult to find a solution for your case.

It looks like you used to the sound of your acoustic piano and you want the same sound from a digital one.

That will not happen (In my opinion)

[Jokeyman123]

You are looking for an acoustic soundspace in a digital domain. I agree with SS, this is not something that might be obtainable. You can try other digital pianos, but outboard processing might help, through a high quality PA system that allows you to control eq. Seems like you are missing the midrange sounds, which digital pianos are notorious for not duplicating well-tend to sound too "flat"-lifeless and lack a the full-bodied sound of a decent acoustic although my PX350 is at least as good as other digitals I've played.

 

You may also be experiencing the limited dynamic range for a digital, which certainly is not the same as even a poorly designed acoustic piano IMO and this is a difficult limitation to overcome. Again, the PX350 is not bad there, but compared to acoustics I've played, not the same. An acoustic needs almost unlimited "headroom" to record whereas a digital can sound very compressed, even in the best of circumstances. Look at how hard it is to record an acoustic piano due to its huge dynamic range, among other things!

 

I would try outboard DSP enhancer processors-high end such as Eventide or similar through a stereo pa. Unless you are running through a stereo board, with the stereo Casio piano tones, you will probably not be happy with how "closed" the sound will be. An enhancer can also brighten the sound unnaturally although this is not what it is designed to do. It is supposed to peak and limit eq settings dynamically to a "possibly" better sound-create a more "live" soundspace. And also in the DSP realm, there are spatializers and surround-sound effects that (might) help you achieve a more open realistic acoustic sound, as well as "aural exciters" which were popular years back although these will brighten the sound as well which is not what you want I think.  I'm not sure any of even the best outboard dsp boxes will help much though. Certainly not through a one-speaker system.

[Suhndog]

I have a PX-160.

I had researched various ways to achieve good sound.

I recently bought a pair of PreSonus Near-Field Studio monitor speakers ..  the E3  3.5's

 

I have to tell you that these little speakers are amazing.  They produce uncolored sound, and their wide-dispersion soft-dome silk tweeters provide a wide sound-stage.

 

I placed the speakers on top of my keyboard, and angled them a little towards where I sit.  They have a wide 'sweet-spot'.

 

Since a Grand Piano's lowest frequency is 27 Hz,  I am also using a powered subwoofer [Velodyne VX-11].

 

The resulting sound is AWESOME.  I have tried using a keyboard amp, and other means to achieve good sound.. and they all sound rather bad to me.

 

I was absolutely amazed at how these little PreSonus monitors render the sounds beautifully!

They only cost me $99 !! 

 

https://www.presonus.com/products/Eris-E35

 

My PX-160 now sounds just like a real Steinway Grand.  I am both an audio technician and a musician.  

 

Now, this setup is for a home or small environment..  not for anything close to being an auditorium, etc.

Still I highly recommend buying a pair of these monitors.

 

I ran the audio out from the piano's rear line-level jacks into a reverb unit.. and then into a small mixer and then into my ZOOM Handy Recorder. I then ran the sound from the recorder's line out, to the monitors.

They sound is superb. Clear, and full featured.

 

From the mixer, I ran the outputs to the subwoofer.    I also inserted a dummy plug into the piano's headphone jack to silence the piano's internal speakers.

 

When I play for friends, they are blown away by how realistic the sound is.  Frankly, I never expected these little monitors to reproduce the piano's sounds so faithfully.

 

I recommend these monitors to everyone who has a digital piano that needs better and external sound.  You will be amazed and delighted.

[Mike Martin]

Amplification / Speaker choice is your issue. 

 

Casio piano sounds - frankly unlike many software solutions, translate extremely well in a live situation in either stereo or mono.  As others have suggested, disabling the internal speakers on the PX-350 ensures that the EQ that is usually applied for the speaker system is not applied to the line outputs.  There are so many great solutions these days for powered speakers. As mentioned, going this route instead of a "keyboard amp" is usually better. The only exception to this rule that I've used is the "Space Station V3".  It provides a remarkable stereo experience for your audience from a single speaker - although I'll admit that it sounds a little odd for the performer depending on how close the speaker is.