PX-5S MIDI Output & Zones

[chuckbutler]

I had to troubleshoot a problem for a friend who has a PX-5S and the solution got me curious about a feature that I'm not sure I understand.

 

The friend in question is a bandleader I work for regularly. He's been impressed with the sound of the PX-5S since I got it to replace my (very heavy) Roland Fantom a couple of years ago, so when the Triton he uses for some gigs he does on his own died about 8 months ago he decided to replace it with a PX. I gave him a bunch of the sounds that I use and he's been very happy . . . with one exception.

 

He plays a lot of church or otherwise religious gigs (funerals, etc.), and for these purposes he likes to use the Garritan Classic Pipe Organ that he runs in Aria Player on his laptop. A few months ago he told me that he was experiencing limited polyphony and occasional heavy distortion when using the PX-5S as a controller for the Garritan Organ. He also reported that this only occurs with the PX; one church he performs at has some kind of Kawai keyboard in house, and when he connects his laptop and interface to it he experiences no problems whatever.

 

I was able to reproduce both problems using his PX, but I couldn't imagine why there would be any difference between the Casio and the Kawai. MIDI is MIDI, right? After googling around a bit, I read a couple of reports where users had resolved some strange MIDI issues by turning of the High Definition MIDI setting. I tried that, and it seemed to make some improvement. This made sense, if only because it would account for a difference in MIDI output between the Casio and the Kawai.

 

But last week my friend called to say that he was still having the same issues and asked if I would take another look. I went through everything in his setup and couldn't find anything that would account for the problem, so I began looking at the PX more closely. Nothing in System Settings seemed relevant, but then I dug into the MIDI page of the Stage Settings, where I discovered the ability to turn MIDI on/off for each Zone (for both the MIDI out port as well as the USB port, which is what he uses to connect to his laptop). Long story short, it turns out that both of his problems are solved by turning off USB MIDI for all but one Zone. What was happening, I presume, is that each time a key was played on the Casio, the USB port was sending out 4 identical MIDI messages (one for each Zone). This explains why his polyphony was limited, and why he was hearing distortion (due to the cumulative effect of triggering 4 samples/note instead of 1). Once I made that change everything worked as expected, so I proceeded to make the same edit to every Stage Setting he uses while controlling the organ (sometimes he likes to layer certain PX sounds with the Pipe Organ). Assuming I've interpreted the results correctly, here are my questions:

 

1. Why would MIDI and USB outs be enabled for each Zone by default? Wouldn't this cause the same problem for any user who simply wants to control a single external MIDI device from their PX? Wouldn't it make more sense to enable MIDI and USB outs for Zone 1 only, and then let the user decide whether to activate any or all of the other 3?

 

2. And in that regard, what is accomplished sending separate MIDI per Zone? In other words, what is the intended purpose of the feature? The only thing I can imagine is that perhaps there is a way for the PX to send data to 4 different external MIDI destinations (just as it can send MIDI data internally to 4 different Zones). The idea, I guess, would be that you could connect the PX to another multitimbral module and trigger 4 different sounds, each layering one of the Zones in your PX (or perhaps using a Zone to play a sound from the external device that the PX doesn't have). The manual is a bit vague; is that the idea?

 

Thanks. Just curious.

 

[Brad Saucier]

Hey Chuck. Been a long time since we've seen you here.  I think you pretty much answered your own questions.  4 zones output to whatever MIDI channels you want them to so that you can use it to layer or split 4 different channels of sound in the external gear, same as the internal sound engine.  One zone can control up to 3 different sources in any variety between internal sounds, external usb and external midi.  

[Tom Williams]

Hah! -- Brand new (~6 weeks ago) PX-5S owner here.  I just dealt with that last week when I set it up to use also as a controller.  I was surprised by the default on x 4 zones behavior. 

It means I have to edit all stage setups before I deploy them for use.   I was curious about whether MIDI was included in the Stage Setup Filter category, but it looks like it isn't.

[chuckbutler]

Thanks, Brad. That's what I figured; I don't use my Casio as a MIDI controller (so far), so this was new to me. Strange choice to enable the MIDI out for all Zones by default though, since it creates the problem that my friend, and Tom (above) ran into. Anyway, problem solved!

[norym]

Does anyone use their PX5s as a midi controller to control another synth ,sound module or soft synth

[Brad Saucier]

9 hours ago, norym said:

Does anyone use their PX5s as a midi controller to control another synth ,sound module or soft synth

 

Please start another topic for your question.

[Sammo]

Please tell me how do you turn off midi data off in separate zones?

[Coffee]

Hmm...

LMMS free plugins also have distortion problem with PX-5S midi input.

So, I'll try your methods. Thank you.

[kukumar]

Hello,

How do you turn off midi output for other zones?  I just bought the PX-S1000 and there is something strange with the MIDI output velocity.  If I can fix the problem by turning off the the other zones that would great, if not, the keyboard will have to be returned to the store as it's not fit for purpose.

[Brad Saucier]

Each zone on the PX-5S has MIDI output on/off switches.  Press edit, stage setting, zone, MIDI edit, MIDI out on/off. 

[Choppin]

I wanted to respond to this old topic:  The PX-5s doesn't ouput on 4 zones by default.  It is based on the zones that are active for a specifc stage setting and what MIDI channels those are set to output to.  Stage setting 0,0 for example has only 1 zone active and that ouputs to MIDI channel 1 only "by default."   However Stage Setting 1,0 outputs on 3 zones on MIDI channels 1, 2 and 3.  The user needs to be familiar with the stage settings they are choosing so they aren't surprised by behavior they weren't aware of.

 

The instructions for this are in the tutorial manual on page E-5 and then are referenced in detail starting on page E-31.

[jaspeter]

Another powerful trick I found this weekend along these lines is that each zone can send its own Bank/Program message when a new Stage Setting is selected. In other words, you could conceivably output to four external pieces of MIDI gear and have them all change to the appropriate patch when you select a different Stage Setting. I've had my PX-5S for almost a decade and just discovered it could do this!

 

I was excited to try it with my Alesis SR-18 drum machine so I could free up Zone 1 on the PX-5S, which I currently use for drums. Unfortunately, I hit a roadblock on the Alesis. A Program Change received by the Alesis will change drum sets, not drum patterns. The main reason I haven't already been using the SR-18 is because I don't want to have to remember to keep track of multiple patch changes between songs "in the heat of battle". One button is enough!

[Brad Saucier]

😅 I just posted about that in the other thread.  I thought you may have overlooked that feature.

[jaspeter]

Ohhhhhhh!  I was so close! I got the two pieces of the puzzle, but didn't see how they fit together! I'll try this later today and report back. This is exciting!  Thanks, Brad!

[jaspeter]

Well, I'll be darned! It really works! I messed it up a little trying to filter control messages, but once I figured that out, it did the trick!

 

I did find that the manual tone reference was off by one. The reference program change number starts at zero, but the menu in the PX-5S starts at one.

 

This is brilliant! Thanks again, Brad!