CTX series premier (NAMM 2018)

[dc2k]

Seems pretty cool for what it is and at that price point. Hope they sell a ton so Casio can pour resources into instruments they won't sell as much of. 

Kinda glad they aren't bringing out a new PX5s because I'm not tired of mine and I don't really want to learn a whole new system either. 

[Casiokid]

Why don't demonstrators play any songs?  -It's what people can relate to.  -Isn't this why people buy keyboards ??

 

[Lee33]

Agree Casiokid. The price is astonishing really, but i am surprised there hasn't been more demo's of this new line, especially more demo's of the new sound processor. I hope to hear more in the coming days and weeks.

[TheBradge]

I think there will be more, from the CT-X5000 that is.

Not that the X-700 isn't astonishing! But the 5000 seems to be much more of an instrument that intermediat/pro players would use, i know i would.

I would trade in my Tyros for it any minute (But then again, i would also do that with the CTK-7200 and MZ-X range)

[Lee33]

2 hours ago, BradgeMusicTube said:

I think there will be more, from the CT-X5000 that is.

Not that the X-700 isn't astonishing! But the 5000 seems to be much more of an instrument that intermediat/pro players would use, i know i would.

I would trade in my Tyros for it any minute (But then again, i would also do that with the CTK-7200 and MZ-X range)

I think the CTK-7200 is an excellent value keyboard IMO. Sure it uses AHL sounds but it isn't a bad sounding keyboard by any stretch and isn't much more in the way of cost now over what the CT-X700 is going to be on release and is surely only going to get even cheaper, and the features of the CTK-7200 at that price is second to none... I also think the second hand market is awash with bargains for the WK/CTK...

[Brad Saucier]

Longer version of the teaser video.  They did a really good job on these videos.  These could easily run on television as a commercial.  So cool.  😀

 

https://youtu.be/ceFPXCUC8J0

 

 

[AlenK]

Wow. 45 additional seconds of uselessness. 

 

Isn't Casio ready to release something more illuminating? After all, NAMM was supposed to be the _launch_. The thing isn't supposed to still be in dry dock. 

[Casiofun]

Casio can't ignore its core market and the CTX line is that market. These everyday budget keyboards are what they sell a lot of and like it or not they were do for a refresh. I think they sound fantastic for the money and I'm looking forward to auditioning one. That CTX 700 sounds great for $175. You could take that with you on the road to practice on.

[PianoManChuck]

On 1/25/2018 at 11:38 AM, AlenK said:

 

Six or more years to provide upgraded models in a given keyboard category, especially if that category is considered "pro," is indeed too slow. I didn't say they weren't doing anything. It's just that what they're evidently busy doing isn't going to win them accolades from professionals of the type they received from potential (and then actual) PX-5S buyers five years ago. 

Hmmm... For the studio - I had my Korg Triton Pro X for about 11 years until they replaced it with the Korg Kronos. 

I was one of the first kids on the block to have a Korg Kronos back in January of 2011 - now its January of 2018 and - while they have Kronos 2, and many other variations, its still a Kronos! 

For gigging as the keyboard player in a band - I've had my Privia PX-560 for over 2 years and don't feel there should be any hurry for Casio to upgrade that - its one of the finest boards I have for gigging and most likely still will be a few years from now without being outdated!  I've seen other manufacturers release new stage pianos, but in the big picture (size, weight, price, features, performance, appearance, etc, etc, etc), nothing new holds a candle to the PX-560 in that price range!

The PX-5S on the other hand, after 5 years or so, STILL kicks butt!  Its one of the best deals going for synth guys... what else comes close to what this baby does at this price point?  And can fit in just about any car?  And won't cost a small fortune to take onto an airplane?

And the CGP-700 for the casual home user - on its own stand, and an awesome LOUD with its built-in 40 watt amp/speakers, and Touch Screen all for a price that's just unbeatable.

 

 

Bottom line... it seems that many of Casio's boards are not only "up to date", but also designed such that they won't be obsolete in a couple of years like so many other boards out there.  One needs to look at a manufacturer's warranty to see how good they are (and Casio has one of the best warranties out there)!

 

My two cents.

[AlenK]

I value your opinion, Chuck. You have a lot of experience with pianos and you make some great videos. I have some experience too. Like you, I have been a keyboard enthusiast for many years, in my case following the synthesizer market closely (not so much pianos). However, my professional experience is not music (strictly an amateur activity for me) but rather product design and embedded electronics. I know what's in these products and if I was hired to do so could help design them. 

 

As I see it the problem here is market share. Casio's pro keyboards before they introduced the touch-screen models (none of which actually replace these earlier models) have some recognized deficiencies. (There is no need to rehash them here.) Without addressing those deficiencies with updates Casio isn't going to get any more of the pro market. Rather, as time goes by they actually lose market share as pro users move on to competing instruments that don't have those deficiencies.

 

I don't think that the situation with the Korg Kronos is in any way comparable. Korg didn't have to do much with the Kronos over the years because there wasn't ever much wrong with it (aside from its painfully slow boot-up time). But for a keyboard that cost what it does, it _should_ be as complete as it is. It's a high-end model whereas none of Casio's keyboards are truly high end (aside from perhaps some of its console piano models). Apples and oranges, IMO. 

 

I agree that the PX-560 is a nice keyboard. I own one. It actually does address some of the deficiencies of the PX-5S but it does not replace the PX-5S. The core capabilities of the two models are significantly different. It has probably been frustrating for PX-5S owners to see features on the PX-560 that they have said for years are missing on the PX-5S. They don't understand why Casio can't put those features on an upgraded replacement for the PX-5S. 

 

Not upgrading the earlier pro models (PX-5S, XW synths) has been Casio's choice. They have evidently decided instead to revamp a significant segment of their home keyboards - the portables line. It will probably make them a lot more money and I can't fault them for this strategic decision. It's just not where I was personally hoping they'd go. I was hoping they had the bandwidth to do both. 

 

Will they eventually turn their efforts to their pro keyboards again? Maybe but maybe not. Perhaps they have decided that the return on investment for doing that is insufficient. They must have put a lot of corporate effort into the MZ-X models and I have a strong suspicion that sales have not been what they hoped. If that is true, it does not bode well for continued development at Casio of pro keyboards in general. 

[Casiofun]

For what it's worth, I don't think Casio has given up on the pro keyboard market. They likely have products in development that they are not ready to release. All products have life cycles and it was time for the home keyboards to be refreshed. For all you know, the PX5S may be selling  well as it is so they have not updated it. I don't think they are worried about losing market share. They have released a lot of nice gear since the musical instruments division was reorganized in 2009. When they do release their next major board there will be plenty of interest in seeing what they come up with.

[Brad Saucier]

Thanks Casiofun and Chuck for today's optimistic posts.  

[PianoManChuck]

AlanK, I also respect your opinion as well and what you say makes sense.  However, while Casio may be large, I don't think they're large enough to work on ALL markets of their boards at once!  They may be going at it in a round robin fashion, with the home market having the focus at the moment.  And it seems that every time they came out with something major (ie: PX-350 replacing the PX-330, or PX-5S introduction, or PX-560 and other TouchScreen models, it always seemed to happen at Summer NAMM rather than the more traditional Winter NAMM).   So I'm up for waiting to see what this year's (2018) Summer NAMM show will bring!

[Display Name]

10 minutes ago, PianoManChuck said:

AlanK, I also respect your opinion as well and what you say makes sense.  However, while Casio may be large, I don't think they're large enough to work on ALL markets of their boards at once!  They may be going at it in a round robin fashion, with the home market having the focus at the moment. 

 

Chuck is zeroing in on what I see happening. The PX-5S is no where near as popular their more consumer oriented boards. For every "pro" that wants all the bells and whistles and is willing to pay for them, there are hundreds (maybe thousands?) of people who "just want a keyboard"... so the consumer market is very important. You'll also find the refresh cycle is longer on their high-end boards. Who knows? Perhaps Casio is going to knock it out of the park again with their next flagship stage piano and  won't release something until it's perfect.

[AlenK]

9 hours ago, PianoManChuck said:

And it seems that every time they came out with something major (ie: PX-350 replacing the PX-330, or PX-5S introduction, or PX-560 and other TouchScreen models, it always seemed to happen at Summer NAMM rather than the more traditional Winter NAMM). 

 

There's reason to be hopeful, sure. However, just to correct you on the introduction dates for some of the  models you referenced:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/casio-unveils-professional-stage-piano-at-winter-namm-2013-188221431.html

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/casio-launches-new-workstation-keyboards-at-winter-namm-2016-300207467.html

 

 

[PianoManChuck]

I stand corrected on the PX-5S.  I never mentioned the MZ series though, so not sure why you included that release?

[AlenK]

16 minutes ago, PianoManChuck said:

I stand corrected on the PX-5S.  I never mentioned the MZ series though, so not sure why you included that release?

 

Because you said "other Touchscreen models."  That general term would include the MZ-X models, not just the PX-360 and CGP-700 (which is the ones you were probably thinking of). Point being, some important products are indeed introduced at Winter NAMM. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that of the two NAMMs, the winter event is considered more significant, if only because it is four times the size and has been going on longer than the summer event.  

[PianoManChuck]

21 minutes ago, AlenK said:

 

"to correct you on the introduction dates for some of the  models you referenced"

 

 

 

I never referenced MZ models, just the PX-5S... I never covered anything less than 88-key Casio models in my years of online reviews, so it should be a given that MZ models are not what I'm talking about.

Nevertheless, the touchscreen models (of 88-key boards) such as the Privia PX-360, PX-560 and CGP-700 were introduced at Summer NAMM, as was the PX-330's replacement, the PX-350.  So one could logically conclude that new(er) models could be positioned for release later this year.  And if not, I'd extend release for next year's Winter NAMM.  The consensus being that the home consumer market is so much bigger that Casio would be foolish not to go after that tooth and nail at this time.  The Pro market can, and will, wait as they've done with other manufacturers.  The PX-5S still serves the Pro market well (with minor exceptions such as the lack of expression pedal input) while the PX-560 covers many other things (with the exception of being a master controller).  These models are still selling.

From a pure business standpoint, I know I'd go where the most profit is to be made.  Once that's been "handled" for the current & next year, I'd go after the next biggest market, and so on.

However, this is all moot... whatever we debate here is irrelevant.  What matters in the end is what actually happens at the next couple of major shows.  With that, I defer to Casio's forthcoming actions.

[AlenK]

On 1/30/2018 at 11:30 PM, Scott Hamlin said:

 

For every "pro" that wants all the bells and whistles and is willing to pay for them, there are hundreds (maybe thousands?) of people who "just want a keyboard"... so the consumer market is very important. 

 

This essentially agrees with my point that what they chose to do will "make them a lot more money."  What did you think I meant by that? I believe I have been very clear on that point. 

 

It remains to be seen whether Casio has decided to continue to pursue the pro market. It's a tough slog there. The customers are "unreasonably" picky, there aren't nearly as many of them as in the home-keyboard market (your point above) and many pros are predisposed not to like the Casio name (you hear it time and time again). I wouldn't blame Casio for giving up there. But how will we know if they did or not? Obviously, releasing  a new pro product would provide proof they haven't given up. But NOT releasing a pro product apparently tells us nothing because someone will always say "maybe next NAMM."  

 

As far as product cycles go, obviously that will be different for every company. But I think it's clear that Roland, Korg, Yamaha, Clavia and others come out with new pro models more often than Casio. They don't always directly replace a model with another, rather they often introduce products that slot in between current models or are entirely different. For instance, Yamaha's Montage didn't directly replace the Motif, despite the fact that Yamaha discontinued the Motif line. 

 

You could say, "Of course these companies introduce more pro products; they aren't in the home market (except for Yamaha) so they aren't busy catering to that." That's actually been one of my points. In comparison to them, Casio seems to be merely dabbling in the pro market. The XW synths to a certain extent and the PX-5S to a large extent, as well as people's memories of Casio pro products of old, earned them a seat at the pro table. But if they want to keep that seat and especially if they want to wrest market share away from some of the other companies I mentioned, they can't sit on their laurels. They have to keep the momentum going.

 

But I would say they have already lost that momentum. The XW synths are dismissed or forgotten by most people. The PX-5S still probably sells well but no one can deny that it is showing its age. It's very much yesterday's technology and Casio themselves helped show that. The PX-560 and MZ-X models, although newer, get little support today in the way of new official sounds, firmware updates, online tutorials and the like. (Yes, there are tutorials for the MZ-X in other countries but very few for English-speaking users, which are primarily in the US.)

 

BTW, I'd like to point out that a forum is for discussion. A discussion is most interesting when people don't all have the same views. 

[AlenK]

4 hours ago, PianoManChuck said:

I never referenced MZ models, just the PX-5S... I never covered anything less than 88-key Casio models in my years of online reviews, so it should be a given that MZ models are not what I'm talking about.

 

It's not a given to me. I can only respond to what you actually write, not what you apparently meant based on your history.