Live Sound suggestions

[powertrader]

I would really like to hear some input on how to get the best live sound out of my XW-G1.  I have used a behringer kdx amp with 15 inch and horn, a monitor and also go through P.A.  However, I am not at all an expert on sound engineering and am very sensitive to tone and all.  I would really like to hear some other live performers setups for self monitoring and for getting the best sound out to front of house. 

 

Thanks in advance

Geoff the PowerTrader

[gtarsoncasio]

Geoff, 

            I don't know what you want as far as sound, but what you described above that you are using, should surely do the trick

I would think.. Keyboard amps work fine, unless you want to come across in stereo, and then they drop the ball.. If you want

the best sound and in stereo, go through a stereo PA setup and ditch the amp.  I usually go through a stereo PA head (use it

as an amp) then if you are playing live route the signals (stereo) to the mixing console, making sure that you have the stereo

maintained throughout the signal path. That is going to get you the best sound, avoiding any mono sources that would drop

your stereo signal into mono.  Being an audio engineer and recording studio engineer, less is most times better.  If you have

to use compressors and limiters, you are losing out on lots of dynamics of the sound. Use as few processors as possible to

get that big sound. I like to go straight into my stereo PA amp head and put on a demo song to tweak the EQ for the 

speakers optimization,. and call it good.. All other tweaks should come from the main board operator (and pray he knows

how not to screw things up too bad).. As long as you are feeding him a good sounding signal, he can send it out over 

the mains without much tweaking.  People often times want to get too many processors involved that really end up 

choking sound into a compressed nightmare. There are some videos on youtube that show how today's music is

choked into oblivion compared to songs of the 80's and 90's that kept the compression levels to a minimum. That

is sound advice too.

 

I once did an album for a band in a studio owned by a famous country band leader's father.. Every sound man in

the valley had worked in that studio at one time or another.. It was just my turn right then. I re-wired the entire

studio before I even attempted to record this band from Illinois.  I began recording them and the lead singer/

songwriter of the band asked "well aren't you going to use the compressors?"...  I said "I don't plan on making

any mistakes to need them"..  He looked at me kind of funny and I went on to record them over the next

week and a half.. When the album was done and the studio owner came to the audition over the monitors

in the control room, the sound was amazing.. All of the band looked at each other, and the studio owner

said "you know I have had every sound man in the whole area in here, but no one has ever made this studio

sound this good".. I took my bows and thanked them kindly for their accolades. How I beat everyone else

at creating a great sound is to get it right at the source of the sound.  When you are recording or when

you are playing live, get things tweaked to where, no compressors or limiters are needed.. Don't choke

the life out of your music. Let the music breathe, give it life, don't kill it through machine trickery, let it

be music with all of the dynamics it deserves..  Simple philosophy, that works great with listeners!

If you depend on a rack of choking equipment, you are only showing that you aren't good enough or

too lazy to do it on your own. Get it right at the source, and keep the signal path clean and strong.

 

One last tip from me.. A lot of people build their sound systems up from the electronics to the speakers.

I do it backwards.. I build it from the speakers to the electronics.. No amount of electronics is going to

make bad speakers sound good.. Good speakers however,. can even make bad electronics sound good..

Make sure your speakers are top notch, then use good components all of the way backwards from

there, and keep your equipment covered up when not in use.. Thanks for reading, and I hope this

helps some of you..

 

There is nothing in the world that sounds any better than a keyboard that is "dialed in" correctly on 

a stage.. They are stars without equal if dialed in correctly.. Now dial yours in! 

[AlenK]

Lots of good tips but would be much easier to read if you removed the hard carriage returns. I'm guessing you pasted from a text editor like Notepad. 

[Chas]

Gtarsoncasio makes many good points. It makes total sense to make the sound at source as best it can be, therefore it then needs little (if anything) done to it to sit in a mix. Using compressors, limiters, gates etc. should only be done  as last resort, and only to subtly tidy a particular sound source so that it sits in a mix better.

 

Most of the above is more important in a studio during the recording process, it's of less important in a live environment as live music is often less rigorously mixed. That's why live music is often more 'alive' sounding compared with a studio recording.

 

I would also add that it you are going to be amplified via a PA system, then the sound engineer needs a much drier source signal from you. Effects and their settings used for a studio recording will need to be different, often substantially, in a live setting. That's what a good sound engineer is for, he will take your line output then add effects as needed to specifically suit the room/ hall/ venue it is being broadcast. If you give him a line out saturated with effects specific to a studio recording, you will make his job much, much harder, if not impossible. Of course, if the effects are used to make a particular sound that is fine (such as chorus, phaser, distortion, delay etc.), I'm talking about effects as mentioned earlier, i.e. compressors, limiters, gates, EQ, reverb etc. Let the sound engineer choose these to get your signal sounding as best it can in that particular environment. He can better judge this from the mixing desk, you will have a completely different perception from on stage. That's why almost every band that I have seen mix themselves onstage has sounded awful out front.

 

 

 

[gtarsoncasio]

Sorry about that AlenK .. I try to paragraph it so it looks better than just running down the line with no end in site or logic to the return itself, which I am going to let this run on it's own and make it return without my help.  

 

Chas, exactly!  One thing that irritates a sound man more than anything is to have a performer over adjust what they are doing on stage.  I used to do sound in a huge night club venue and once you get three musicians or so all adjusting their own parameters on stage, the sound man has no where to go. This is true, especially in the volume arena. A PA system is supposed to take all of the sounds and mix them together in a nice mix and present it to the audience. When you have stars (ahem) that want to stick out front by blasting their amps, then the sound man cannot use that person in the mix, because they already have out done the PA system.  The sound man can only attempt to bring everyone else up to a level to compete with the person(s) who are blasting on stage. So the art of the mix is thrown right out of the window (so to speak).  I did sound for one band where the guitar player had no amp at all and went through the PA system.. Wow!  That was nice for sure, as you could mix him in where he needed to be, instead of some superstar blasting his notes beyond the PA systems ability

to compete.  In other words, less amp volume allows for a mix to be done. If you have a real sound engineer, he is going to make you sound great in the mix with the rest of the band.

If, on the other hand, you are Mr. "Blast me" (because I am a star), you take away the mix for the entire band. As an engineer, I can't turn your amp down to fit into the mix. You can though, so it is much better to let the engineer bring your toned down amp up into the mix, because he can't make it lower.  It's sort of like adding salt as a cook.. If you put too much in, you can't remove it later.  Don't add too much salt to begin with and let the engineer adjust your volume.  Keyboard players usually don't invade into this area like guitar players do. They are

mainly providing background music in most bands and they are smart enough to know to keep the volume right. 

 

"I would also add that it you are going to be amplified via a PA system, then the sound engineer needs a much drier source signal from you." <Chas said it

Very true.. An engineer plays in the band too. He plays dials, faders, eq's, and effects.  He has to know your songs like he is playing an instrument in the band because he really is playing the most important instrument in the band, (The PA system).  Without his instrument, you sound like a bad garage band.  Let him bring in the lion share of the effects. If your amps are set right, he can add effects to whichever instrument needs it and when it needs it, (which takes some of the monkey off of your back).  He needs to practice with the band on every session so that he can get his timing down pat for the entire show.  Keep it clean and give it to the soundman!