CharlieWorton Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Love the (rumored) capabilities of the CT-X 3000/5000, but need a 76 (or 88) key keyboard. Anyone have any thoughts as to when - or if - Casio might introduce a 76 key version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee33 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 All new CT-X models are only confirmed as 61 key models. I personally wouldn't bank on there being a 76 key one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casiofun Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 We don't if the WK 7600 is going to be discontinued. I would think it is and replaced by the CT-X line. Apparently Casio thinks 61 keys is enough. They seem to be going for portability and light weight. The only 88 key workstation I know of from Casio is the WK 8000 made back around 2008 or so. It was based on the WK-3000 series keyboards and had unweighted piano style keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlenK Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 If it's true that Casio decided a few years ago to put the development of "high grade" keyboards and keyboards for the pro market on the back burner (or perhaps in the freezer) then IMO it will take years before we see another 76-key keyboard from them, if ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieWorton Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 I will admit that Casio doesn't seem to have a cohesive, well defined business strategy. The sounds of the CT-X series - at least based on what we've been told so far - are good enough to attract attention from professionals, and give Yamaha a run for their money. But having developed an excellent sound engine, and put all the time and money into deriving samples for it... why bring it to market in a keyboard at a price point that would appeal to the rank amateur? And why NOT bring it to market in a keyboard with the capabilities of the WK-7600? If you're a master chef and you've created a dish so fine that all would acknowledge your excellence, no one would expect you to be selling it at Denny's. And all would be puzzled at your turning your back on the audience that could most appreciate your efforts. Of course, we're all assuming that the sound engine is stop-the-presses excellent. I want it to be, and I hope it is. But if it still doesn't compete with Yamaha, then I could understand focusing on the entry level market. However, that's not what they're promising. "A keyboard with sounds everyone would want, at a price that anyone can afford." I think that was the un-official NAMM promise, or something close to it. I'm just puzzled. I think I'll pick up a CT-X700 when they show up locally, simply because it's cheap enough that I won't cry if I find a few showstoppers. And if they come out with a WK-7600 with the new sound engine and samples, I'll buy that, too. But usually you introduce your new technology on the most expensive models, and work your way down. Casio seems to have reversed the order; offering it on the cheapest model first. Sound of head shaking. WTF? >Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee33 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I would love a 76 key variant but i don't think they'll be one. I own the WK7600 and agree from the sounds Casio want us to hear it sounds great and far exceeds the WK7600 capability, although the organ is good on the WK/CTK. I have spent hours and hours refining the sounds as best as i can and have gotten reasonable results out of it, better than factory sounds IMO, but the CT-X series appear to be in a different league. I believe even with just 61 keys it will be a big seller for them with those sounds and i hope it is because this could only be a good thing for the future of the Casio Music department for their future keyboard products... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieWorton Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 I suspect I might be able to get a deal on a WK-7600 before too long. The sole Casio dealership has been sold to a competitor who won't carry Casio (I suspect because it makes his other, higher margin instruments look bad). Once this dealership sale is complete, there won't be a professional Casio keyboard in any Canadian store West of Toronto, Ontario. Oh, you can buy the cheaper Casio keyboards at Best Buy; but they don't stock keyboards like CTK-7200 / WK-7600, or the Casio synths, or any of the Privia or Celviano line. So, the new boss will probably want to clear the decks, so there might be a big Casio liquidation sale a month before handoff. Could be some good prices to be had. Or I might wait too long, and find they've sold all their WK-7600s, and I'm just out of luck. And with the new AiX sound engine coming out, I don't know if I want to buy a WK-7600 anyway, even at a good price. Ahh. Thank God the Brits invented Beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirka Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 5 hours ago, CharlieWorton said: I will admit that Casio doesn't seem to have a cohesive, well defined business strategy. The sounds of the CT-X series - at least based on what we've been told so far - are good enough to attract attention from professionals, and give Yamaha a run for their money. But having developed an excellent sound engine, and put all the time and money into deriving samples for it... why bring it to market in a keyboard at a price point that would appeal to the rank amateur? And why NOT bring it to market in a keyboard with the capabilities of the WK-7600? If you're a master chef and you've created a dish so fine that all would acknowledge your excellence, no one would expect you to be selling it at Denny's. And all would be puzzled at your turning your back on the audience that could most appreciate your efforts. Of course, we're all assuming that the sound engine is stop-the-presses excellent. I want it to be, and I hope it is. But if it still doesn't compete with Yamaha, then I could understand focusing on the entry level market. However, that's not what they're promising. "A keyboard with sounds everyone would want, at a price that anyone can afford." I think that was the un-official NAMM promise, or something close to it. I'm just puzzled. I think I'll pick up a CT-X700 when they show up locally, simply because it's cheap enough that I won't cry if I find a few showstoppers. And if they come out with a WK-7600 with the new sound engine and samples, I'll buy that, too. But usually you introduce your new technology on the most expensive models, and work your way down. Casio seems to have reversed the order; offering it on the cheapest model first. Sound of head shaking. WTF? >Charlie Very true but i think the word will be spread very fast trough forums/youtube that people do not have to look at a Korg Kross/Roland DS/Yamaha Mx/S670 anymore when a CTX3000/5000 sounds so good for that little money. I am confident Casio people read this forum and other ones and with the probable big success of this CTX series will come up with a 76 keys version and maybe even a 88 hammer weighted keys version which could cause real damage to Korg/Yamaha/Roland 88 keys workstations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee33 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 2 hours ago, mirka said: Very true but i think the word will be spread very fast trough forums/youtube that people do not have to look at a Korg Kross/Roland DS/Yamaha Mx/S670 anymore when a CTX3000/5000 sounds so good for that little money. I am confident Casio people read this forum and other ones and with the probable big success of this CTX series will come up with a 76 keys version and maybe even a 88 hammer weighted keys version which could cause real damage to Korg/Yamaha/Roland 88 keys workstations. I think depending on the sales, the AiX source i believe will feature in other models in the future, i just don't think it will be in the CT-X range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlenK Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 2018-02-17 at 11:15 AM, mirka said: I am confident Casio people read this forum and other ones and with the probable big success of this CTX series will come up with a 76 keys version and maybe even a 88 hammer weighted keys version which could cause real damage to Korg/Yamaha/Roland 88 keys workstations. Casio people probably do read this forum, occassionally, but I think you overestimate the value they place on the feedback of posters here. In any case, success of the CT-X series does not necessarily translate into Casio putting renewed emphasis into higher-grade and even pro keyboards. I hope it does but it's by no means inevitable nor even likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Display Name Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 1:50 PM, Lee33 said: I think depending on the sales, the AiX source i believe will feature in other models in the future, i just don't think it will be in the CT-X range. Casio is a big believer in economy of scale, so that AiX engine will probably be used all over the place: I can envision a PX-X, WK-X, LK-X and even an SA-X keyboard. Not sure if AiX will replace the AiR engine or if both will be needed in digital pianos, but that's my thinking FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyy38 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 1:37 AM, CharlieWorton said: But usually you introduce your new technology on the most expensive models, and work your way down. Casio seems to have reversed the order; offering it on the cheapest model first. >Charlie Over the last 20 years of music technology being winnowed down and vastly improved, in order to offer the consumer an outstanding product, at an outrageous price, it is no longer necessary to offer "new technology" FIRST on the "nosebleed" models and THEN trickle it down to the rest of us "peasants" afterwards. Casio is doing something different then the competition, for once in a row, by offering a prime rib at hamburger prices, because the technology is now inexpensive enough to do that! Casio just broke an "old mold" into pieces and remade it, in their image. 20 years ago, "usually" was the norm. Welcome to 2018! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyy38 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 On 2/17/2018 at 9:50 AM, Lee33 said: I think depending on the sales, the AiX source i believe will feature in other models in the future, i just don't think it will be in the CT-X range. You don't "think"? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CTX5000--casio-ct-x5000-61-key-portable-keyboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieWorton Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 Well, the laws of economics haven't changed. Casio still needs to make a buck. I don't mind in the least if Casio sells $2,000 keyboards for $200. Certainly, the technology has become less expensive; but that is usually the least expensive part of any electronic product. What really costs are making the molds for the plastic parts, making the parts themselves, running the assembly line, designing and manufacturing the packaging, and shipping the product to destinations all over the world. Especially shipping. Those costs haven't changed. If anything, over the last 20 years they have increased. In order to stay in business at these prices, Casio has to dramatically expand their market share. They can do this in one of two ways. First, they can purchase their competitors, or drive them into bankruptcy. Either is a cost intensive process; you're basically betting that you can offer products at a loss long enough to cause your competitors to leave the field. by capturing their market share. I'm not familiar with Casios balance sheet, but they've never struck me as a global behemoth such as Mitsubishi or Samsung. But perhaps they are. The other way you can expand market share is by offering a product that no one knew they needed, until they tried it. The Apple iPad was such a product. Prior to the iPad, tablet computers didn't exist; now, they're everywhere. Apple literally invented a brand new market. That's very rare. I don't think the CT-X keyboards fall into that category. They're evolutionary, not revolutionary. And I don't think that Casio is making a major play, trying to drive companies like Roland or Yamaha from the playing field. If anything, I think it would be the other way around. Yamaha can take any number of actions against Casio, if they so choose. They're far bigger. So... either Casio is trying to solidify the inexpensive, consumer, 'Best Buy' keyboard market under the Casio name... or they've run entirely off the rails. And, I'm not sure which. But the CT-X700 offers incredible value, the other CT-X keyboards are eyepopping, and this is really going to shake the music industry up. What will Yamaha do? Abandon the cheap keyboard market entirely, migrate their high end technology down to match Casio, or try to swat Casio like a bug? No matter how this plays out, it's going to be very interesting. We live in interesting times. >Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee33 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 On 06/04/2018 at 6:29 AM, skyy38 said: You don't "think"? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CTX5000--casio-ct-x5000-61-key-portable-keyboard You misunderstood the context in which I was referring to. I was talking exclusively about 76/88 key keyboards in reply to a previous comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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