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Sampling sustained sounds


Muso7

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Hi guys/gals

Apologies but I may be asking a stupid one here - haven't had my morning triple-shot coffee yet;)

 

I recently had a go at loading and configuring guitar WAV samples and produced a "Hank Marvin Fender Strat guitar" tone to share (in downloads section).

This seemed all reasonably straight forward using the sample manager software from Casio. I'd like to do a better job with some other sound samples I have.

 

My question is:

...if I was doing the same but with WAV file samples of strings or organ (i.e. the sounds are sustained (looped)) how do I configure the actual loop part of the WAV so that the MZ plays continuously whilst the notes are held down? I have done this on my Korg as its in-built editor has this feature. 

 

Hope I'm making sense.

I think Mike Martin may have done this with his "StringMachine" tone in the downloads.....

 

Thanks

 

Pete :)

 

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While you are editing the samples that you'll be dropping into the MZX Sample Manager, set loop points using your DAW software. The MZ will obey those loop points later when the tone is loaded. Beware that not all audio editing software will embed wave file loop markers for export.  Wavosaur is one free app that can create loops the MZ will recognize.  

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2 hours ago, Randelph said:

Question about sharing samples with the group.

 

If i sampled sounds off a Nord Stage, can i post that in downloads so others on this forum can use them?

 

Randy

They are controversial questions because in the downloads section of this forum there are many sampled instruments derived from other keyboards.
We are in great doubt now because our keyboards are capable of emulating other instruments.
If we do not sample other brands we sample acoustic instruments that have preserved rights.
It's that old story of the CD rewritable against Vinyl.
And I've seen videos of Casio Brazil demonstrating sampled sounds from Kontakt (Kick Ass Brass) of course it was not mentioned in the video but for those who are decades using software and keyboards just listening can understand.
When I posted the video of demonstrating a different keyboard on the MZ-X was not to donate but to demonstrate the features of the keyboard MZ-X300.

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3 hours ago, Silvano Silva said:

If we do not sample other brands we sample acoustic instruments that have preserved rights.

 

There must be a translation issue here: We know you generate your English text from Google translate (at least, you did it several times before).

 

There are no "preserved rights" associated with sounds from acoustic instruments. Go ahead and sample any acoustic instrument to your heart's content. 

 

Sampling another electronic instrument whose sounds are produced using samples, on the other hand, is not generally allowed because the samples are copyrighted. It doesn't matter that you are recording an analog output and not taking the sample data directly. It would be like sampling a piece of recorded music; you violate copyright. In the case of music there are cases where it is allowed; so-called fair use. I don't know if there is any fair use of samples from electronic instruments. 

 

I believe, however, that it is okay to sample an electronic instrument that does NOT use samples.  

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31 minutes ago, AlenK said:

 

There must be a translation issue here: We know you generate your English text from Google translate (at least, you did it several times before).

 

There are no "preserved rights" associated with sounds from acoustic instruments. Go ahead and sample any acoustic instrument to your heart's content. 

 

Sampling another electronic instrument whose sounds are produced using samples, on the other hand, is not generally allowed because the samples are copyrighted. It doesn't matter that you are recording an analog output and not taking the sample data directly. It would be like sampling a piece of recorded music; you violate copyright. In the case of music there are cases where it is allowed; so-called fair use. I don't know if there is any fair use of samples from electronic instruments. 

 

I believe, however, that it is okay to sample an electronic instrument that does NOT use samples.  

You're the only one who bothers my translations . I try to be as technical as possible.
But Alenk you not need bother with my posts anymore.


All electronic instruments use samples. What determines is the quality of the samples and memory  (large number of samples).
If I use samples from other keyboards in Casio I do not believe that I am infriging something even because an example:
A Nord piano has in its Rom memory has hundreds of megabytes or Gigabytes and also its structure like hardware simulation dedicated DSPs and other details that I will not mention here.
So you never with all the knowledge of sample handling will get the sound of the original Nord as it is on a 128 / 256mb rom keyboard that the MZ-X line has.
For me to have an approximate Sound of such an instrument only using Kontakt software or a Kronos.
 

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On 19/02/2018 at 9:54 PM, Muso7 said:

...if I was doing the same but with WAV file samples of strings or organ (i.e. the sounds are sustained (looped)) how do I configure the actual loop part of the WAV so that the MZ plays continuously whilst the notes are held down?

The best Program is the EXTREME SAMPLE CONVERTER for loops points.

http://www.extranslator.com

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2 hours ago, Amado Jose said:

De que serve todo esse trabalho, sendo que o instrumento não funciona com samples

"What is the use of all this work, since the instrument does not work with samples"

Talvez ainda Amado José o pessoal do fórum não se aprofundou ainda na criação de samples de uso mais Hardcore. 

Pode ser que no futuro venham a repetir tudo o que nós tentamos lhes dizer e para nós já foi fim de papo.

Se preocupam mais com as nossas tentativas incorretas de traduçôes para a língua do Site do que se esforçar para o compreendimento e interação.

É como se colocasse uma cocheira aonde só olham para o lado aonde o condutor aponta.

Quando participava do fórum do CTK as coisas eram mais simples e limpas pois tinha muito mais interação e diálogos.

Acredito que com o lançamento da linha CT-X o MZ-X vai ser apagado e será muito pouco lembrado.

Pois a Casio está se esforçando pra isso.

Talvez este deva ser um dos últimos posts por aqui coisa que deveria ter parado faz tempo. 

Um abraço conterrânio e boa Sorte.   :cheers: 

 

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3 hours ago, Silvano Silva said:

"What is the use of all this work, since the instrument does not work with samples"

 

 

Think I'm getting a bit lost here.... the MZ-X500 DEFINITELY DOES work with samples or maybe I am dreaming and don't really own one....:beer:

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19 hours ago, Brad Saucier said:

That's a big NO.  

I do not think that this is quite true. You are not allowed to sell or trade etc an official wav form used within a keyboard, but you can quite happily sell /trade/ give away music that you create from a keyboard (otherwise no one could ever use one commercially) and a single note is classed as this

 

Steve

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15 hours ago, Silvano Silva said:

You're the only one who bothers my translations . I try to be as technical as possible.
But Alenk you not need bother with my posts anymore.


All electronic instruments use samples. What determines is the quality of the samples and memory  (large number of samples).
If I use samples from other keyboards in Casio I do not believe that I am infriging something even because an example:
A Nord piano has in its Rom memory has hundreds of megabytes or Gigabytes and also its structure like hardware simulation dedicated DSPs and other details that I will not mention here.
So you never with all the knowledge of sample handling will get the sound of the original Nord as it is on a 128 / 256mb rom keyboard that the MZ-X line has.
For me to have an approximate Sound of such an instrument only using Kontakt software or a Kronos.
 

 

Google translations are not very good, generally speaking. Since you don't speak English, how would know the quality of Google's translations? I tell you with no malice that your posts are not always entirely understandable. You should accept that at face value.

 

I needn't bother replying to your posts? Sorry, it doesn't work that way (as you can see). I will continue to reply if I feel the need until the moderators say I can't. THAT's the way it works. 

 

You should believe me when I say that if you sample another keyboard that uses samples to produce its sounds you are technically infinging copyright. It doesn't matter if you didn't capture all of the sample set. If you captured ANY of it you are infringing. If you try to sell them and someone who cares (like, the company making the keyboard) finds out, you WILL be asked to stop selling. You will likely get the request in the form of a cease and desist letter. Maybe copyright law is different in Brazil but I doubt it's THAT different. 

 

[PS. I believe Amados is being flippant when he says the MZ-X500 doesn't work with samples. He apparently has experienced serious problems with the X500's sampling function. However, even if the X500 didn't sample at all it would still be true that it uses samples. Every single tone it produces is based on samples, although a few of them are only one cycle long and were likely originally generated mathematically (e.g., sawtooth waveform).] 

 

Quote

Se preocupam mais com as nossas tentativas incorretas de traduçôes para a língua do Site do que se esforçar para o compreendimento e interação.

You're wrong. But posting Google translations does nothing to promote the kind of understanding necessary for a meaningful discussion.

 

Quote

Talvez este deva ser um dos últimos posts por aqui coisa que deveria ter parado faz tempo.

You can stop anytime. Nobody is forcing you to post.

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25 minutes ago, AlenK said:

 

Google translations are not very good, generally speaking. Since you don't speak English, how would know the quality of Google's translations? I tell you with no malice that your posts are not always entirely understandable. You should accept that at face value.

 

I needn't bother replying to your posts? Sorry, it doesn't work that way (as you can see). I will continue to reply if I feel the need until the moderators say I can't. THAT's the way it works. 

 

You should believe me when I say that if you sample another keyboard that uses samples to produce its sounds you are technically infinging copyright. It doesn't matter if you didn't capture all of the sample set. If you captured ANY of it you are infringing. If you try to sell them and someone who cares (like, the company making the keyboard) finds out, you WILL be asked to stop selling. You will likely get the request in the form of a cease and desist letter. Maybe copyright law is different in Brazil but I doubt it's THAT different. 

 

[PS. I believe Amados is being flippant when he says the MZ-X500 doesn't work with samples. He apparently has experienced serious problems with the X500's sampling function. However, even  if the X500 didn't sample at all it would still be true that it uses samples. Every single tone it produces is based on samples, although a few of them are only one cycle long and were likely originally generated mathematically (e.g., sawtooth waveform).] 

 

You're wrong. But posting Google translations does nothing to promote the kind of understanding necessary for a meaningful discussion.

 

You can stop anytime. Nobody is forcing you to post.

Now Google Translator worked well for you. Even writing in Portuguese. As I said and I repeat to you not to worry about my posts because I have been a long time in the forum and I did not have problems in communication. As Mike Martin has already told me that I can put what I want in my instrument as long as I do not want to sell MZ-X with sound sampled in Keyboard in large scale. 

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50 minutes ago, Silvano Silva said:

Now Google Translator worked well for you. Even writing in Portuguese. As I said and I repeat to you not to worry about my posts because I have been a long time in the forum and I did not have problems in communication. As Mike Martin has already told me that I can put what I want in my instrument as long as I do not want to sell MZ-X with sound sampled in Keyboard in large scale. 


My, my, Mr. Silva, what a big font you have. 

 

(PS. Google Translate actually mangled the translation from Portuguese pretty badly. I had to infer based on my knowledge of English what you actually meant. It seems I was not too far off. I have to do the same thing when I read your posts but sometimes it is not so obvious since we are talking about technical matters. If you persist in this line of argument I will have to start a poll to see how many other people here have trouble deciphering your posts. You might not like the results.)

 

 

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1 hour ago, MrSteveVee said:

I do not think that this is quite true. You are not allowed to sell or trade etc an official wav form used within a keyboard, but you can quite happily sell /trade/ give away music that you create from a keyboard (otherwise no one could ever use one commercially) and a single note is classed as this.

 

You are correct about sharing music that you create. But the question was about sharing samples. That's not at all the same thing. By "sample" the poster asking the question was clearly not talking about a recording of a single note that he wished to share. Are you thinking that a sample set is just a collection of single notes and hence should be considered music? That reasoning is pretty sketchy and I'm certain it would not pass the smell test in court. But I'm not a lawyer so I can't name you cases in which it has been tested (as I'm also sure it has been). 

 

But really, folks, it doesn't matter if you can justify sharing samples (or sample sets or tones) that were recorded from instruments that themselves use samples. It isn't allowed HERE according to Brad. End of story. (And if you want to argue that all Brad has prohibited are samples taken from the Nord Stage, I'm sure he will clarify the matter.)

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41 minutes ago, AlenK said:

 

You are correct about sharing music that you create. But the question was about sharing samples. That's not at all the same thing. By "sample" the poster asking the question was clearly not talking about a recording of a single note that he wished to share. Are you thinking that a sample set is just a collection of single notes and hence should be considered music? That reasoning is pretty sketchy and I'm certain it would not pass the smell test in court. But I'm not a lawyer so I can't name you cases in which it has been tested (as I'm also sure it has been). 

 

But really, folks, it doesn't matter if you can justify sharing samples (or sample sets or tones) that were recorded from instruments that themselves use samples. It isn't allowed HERE according to Brad. End of story. (And if you want to argue that all Brad has prohibited are samples taken from the Nord Stage, I'm sure he will clarify the matter.)

Ahh the semantics and legalities are such a minefield in this area for sure, if I was a legal expert in this area I could probably make a fortune!  However if the rules of the house are no, then effectively discussions in this area are pretty much irrelevant. No probs, rules are rules, I shall drop the topic. 

 

Steve 

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