Is there a way to make your own PCM tones

[Sean777]

I was wondering if there is a way to make your own PCM tones from your own wave files / PCM recordings?

[Gnomo Alegre]

I think not. But hopefully other answers.

[Null]

That's only possible with a sampling keyboard like the XW-G1...

[Peter]

I always wondered if I could make a nice HexLayer tone, and save it as a PCM. Of course I couldn't edit it like a regular HexLayer tone after that.

I noticed that many PCM tones have two layers. When you are browsing the PCM waves in HexLayer you can spot many of these tone "pairs". If I could make even my own two layer PCM tones, that would be great.

And this brings me to an interesting conclusion: in performance mode, if I use a HexLayer tone, and three PCM tones, that's in fact (theoretically) a 6 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 12 layer tone???

[Sean777]

@happyrat1:

I have Logic Pro and can make my own samples...and publish in any sound format - PCM is one of my options. What else needs to be done to the sample to allow it to become useable by the Casio keyboard PCM melody? I think Casio keyboards could run the market if they gave users this ability. I have a lot of virtual synth sound I would love to use on my Casio but need a way to get them on there. I have layered in external sounds from my iPad through app's like animoog and the sounds are great but I would like run the sound without having to fire up both keyboard and iPad.

[Null]

The problem is that the PCM sounds are stored in ROM. They're simply not flashable at all. The only possible way to change the samples in such a keyboard involves physically removing the sample ROM and replacing it with a custom burned chip.

While the XW-P1 is a lovely keyboard, it simply is not possible to change the sounds by any software method.

[Peter]

When I downloaded the official new sounds for the XW-P1, there was a PCM tone "TB Vint EP 1". Was it created by using the XW's existing PCM waves or is it a completely new thing? The description says that it was programmed by Tom Brislin. Now the question is, how he did it?

Edit: Silly me, probably he just edited an existing tone .

[Null]

It was created by tweaking existing sounds.

[Sean777]

I think I can reverse engineer the file. I looked at one of the PCM tones with Adobe Audition, the Waveform is 44.1k mono .02sec (132 bytes long). There is a header with the file name, DSP /chorus / reverb setting / embedded. The file has a ending word, probably a checksum of some sort. I will need to experiment a little to figure out the exact file structure, will look at the file with a hex editor.

[Sean777]

Hi Mike Martin,

Can you provide a file format for the PCM tone .ZTN files?

[Mike Martin]

No it is not possible to add new samples into the XW-P1. You can edit parameters on any existing PCM tones, change envelopes, filters and effects. If you want more editing the HexLayer side really allows the most flexibility for editing creating your own sounds using the existing samples.

[Sol]

I bought an XW-G1 this month and in the product specifications there is the possibility to include 100 melody tones from PCM users.

Incredible that not even the 100 extra PCM preset tones coming in P1 could not be imported to G1.

 

Every player has .wav sounds to include in keyboards like this (samplers). And in XW, besides not supporting .wav, can not convert to .ZTN, as the costume says?

I have to sacrifice the already restricted memory of the Sampler Users if I want to include sounds (recording directly by the instrument input), instead of the memory that should be used for PCM sounds not even if it's those of another keyboard of the same Casio?

 

Are all files (ZSY, ZPF, ZWT, ZSS, etc) used in Editor Software - that many users share here normally - forever limited to the internal parameters of each instrument of the same company?

 

This way it's not worth having a CTK5000 together with XW to receive an easy configuration as Dual-Layer of CTK, which is much more bureaucratic to do in an XW. I'm enjoying many things of the XW-G1, but we expect more practical and versatile equipment to combine in the 21st century.

[Jokeyman123]

Pretty much-each Casio, for that matter, each keyboard uses its own method for synthesizing sounds. even Casio has changed from "ZPI" in older Casios to "AHL" in the newer Wk and CTK keyboards- with and without drawbars, and i think the PCM sounds in the XW series to now the "AIR" sound engine used for the Privias and now the "AIX" design for the CTX series. The only cross-compatibility I have found, and I have gotten a real "kick" out of this-is the user rhythms which have some degree of cross-compatibility. The older "CKF" format for rhythms can successfully be used in the newer auto-arrangers-I think up to the CTX series-and the newer "AC7" rhythm format which I have been able to use in both the PX560 and PX350 older Privia.  I have uploaded a bunch of my custom-made rhythms in our upload section in the .ckf format-but these will work in my older PX575, PX350 and PX560-not sure about the CTX series or the MZ-X newer arrangers. I know MZ-X files-ones and rhythms are not backwards or cross-compatible with my PX560 although there are so many similarities.

Ii do not think it is possible, even for the most advanced programmer, to develop software that could make all these different tone formats cross-compatible. This is standard in the industry for as long as I remember. even my older Ensoniqs/Yamahas had different designs for sounds, multis, samples and sequences-for each model although the DX series Yamahas could be converted to the later SY series since this was FM technology.

 

Having mutliple platforms-in hardware and software-the only way to keep all this organized technically-is to obtain and use one of the huge multi-librarian programs still kicking around-I use Midiquest by Soundquest-which will at least recognize almost any keyboard out there that has midi-and can store entire sound libraries per keyboard, in one interface-but cannot change a sound's basic design to be playable on another. The only other hardware solution-and many studios had to do this-talk about headaches-is to get one specific software or hardware sampler than can read many sample formats, role your own and use the hardware (or software) sampler as a sound/tone module.  You may want to find AWave studio-I have used this, it has been around for many years-and is about the only program I've ever seen that can read/recognize and convert one sample format to another-and the list of sample formats is huge. I cannot send you to a specific vendor-but just search Awave Studio-you might find this will solve some of these difficult cross-compatibility issues-but only for samples as far as I remember.

[Sol]

The history of the Musical Instrument Digital Interface implementation makes me believe that the unification effort is very intelligent and always good for everyone.

 

Several computers with different chipsets can run different operating systems, and these can run softwares from different companies. From the programming point of view, it's perfectly possible to create a Software Editor or Sampler Editor to run on different keyboards of the same company.

 

Perhaps the predefined pure PCM sounds of Casio's simple keyboards - sounds that even have the same names as those found in the some of predefined PCM sounds in the XWs - could fill a XW PCM user space, since they are just instrument digital samples and not edited in a complex way from one hardware to another. In this case, it would be more honest import than recording them and cutting them in an Audacity in Wav, to then go through the specific Software Editor, to then use in a non PCM region...

 

Anyway, if Casio understands that for importing sounds in G1 it's enough to put everything in the small space (that already has its own niche), reducing the capacity of a specific software model to edit only external files for the ZWT format, then at least implement a space equivalent to the demand it will have to support.

 

One solution has been in place for some time... using .wav for sample files, such as the Roland EA7 arranger, Korg Kross, etc - in them we can import any .wav in the way we have created or downloaded them. So the 32Gb of the SD card would make sense in XWs... instead of 65,000 ZTN ZTW ETC Capacity, a reasonable amount of .wav would be more versatile and sufficient than all this in fragmented formats for each software of each specific equipment to work with.

 

If you buy an old Sampler and place a floppy disk emulator, it also solves the capacity problem.

 

It doesn't take such a big effort for companies to help us be satisfied with a specialized sample keyboard like the G1 to make it effectively versatile.
The industry already has a lot of experience in creating up-to-date equipment that embraces what has already been learned from the issue of storing and using samples flexibly on keyboards for these purposes.

 

i hope you understand that every criticism can be a pearl to advance in the market through the complaints and ideas of its users, who basically only want the best for everyone. the companies that listen more that justify, advance more. And Casio usually listens to his clients as few companies do.

[Jokeyman123]

here's the shame of it-I've kept my old PX575 for just this reason. Although it's sample ram is limited-it is non-volatile-saves samples when powered down, unlike some that use volatile memory-have to reload every time. And my Generalmusic Equinox-which has full sample editing and a sample 'translator' built in. hs both volatile and non-volatile sample memory-as does the old SY85. and all can handle .wav files. The PX575 as part of the IDES 4.0 software for it, has a decent sample mapper, rudimentary but can map samples across the keys, set root pitches (transpose) loop, set envelopes and has 5 (I think i remember-not in front of me) user slots for your programmed samples. I have a soprano sax, flute, drumkit an a multi-voice set of samples in it right now-and I have a little more room for another sample. Plus a complete "virtual drawbar" software front-end, still the nicest I've seen from Casio or anybody-9 drawbars, Leslie on/off-slow/fast.3 percussion settings for the factory organs, pretty amazing. I would kill to have that as a screen/options on the PX560-I even tried to see if the the 560 would recognize this PX575 software-but no! Too bad, I didn't think so but I can dream.

 

The XW-P1 has a killer software editor/librarian as does the PX5s, but decided not to with the 560-since it has that beautiful color touchscreen, like the ancient Cassiopeia pocket PCS had way ahead of their time, the best out there. I had a few when PDA's were popular.

 

So Casio hasn't always used their technology in a "linear" progressive way with some features, but the more i play older keys, the more I can appreciate what Casio does have. I just do wish they would keep the best features of earlier instruments incorporated into the newest. I guess for marketing, this must not always be the most profitable way to do things, and from an engineering POV, might not be as easy as it seems to us, the players!

[Sol]

This is the problem, we players are the ones who pay for the projects of the companies, so they should expand their efforts to respond to the Royal Demand of those who bankroll, rather than looking at their navels with particular projects. It seems there's more vanity among engineers than "market concerns" - and I'm not talking about the Casio here, but about the whole industry. As much as the industry wants to invent fashion, it's ultimately the consumer who bankrolls the materialization of their projects. Not listening to the consumer is disrespectful and less cost-effective. Many companies in other areas find it quite obvious!

 

If innovation is difficult, keep efforts in reflecting on unification so we already have: Midi hardware with flexibility of use of sounds in.wav -PADRONS of industry... The more fragmented the more we are part of the problems, not intelligent solutions.

 

Perhaps the real challenge in the world of digital production has never been a matter of software (we have enough of that), but integration of devices... As always! The company that opens its eyes to building "free operating systems" to integrate part of its equipment, even to be bought together, will win in the innovation race and increase its profits. Now, to focus only on locked software, and not on new types of drivers open to communication with what has been the pattern for decades, is to remain slave to ready things: there is nothing innovative in increasing its exponential.

 

And speaking of research, justice be done: my Casio XW-G1 is a pearl of great resources. It was the best sampler that Casio has done since the SK2100 (is more like an Fz1), and a rare everything in a flexible. I wouldn't trade him for Roland JDXi. Congratulations to the engineers at Casio.

 

I have my criticisms as well as anyone who knows the history of this type of equipment, and I sincerely hope that experts will take the race more and more seriously for a more synthetic resource technology within the immense history of musical hardware.

 

We're in the information age, we can't justify our mistakes, we're open to improvements all the time if we don't want to be swallowed up by the company that does the right thing first. The word "Originality" comes from "Origins". So let's not be slaves to fresh-made things. History is full of good ideas that cannot always be so subordinate to the so-called'new'.

 

Speaking of studying, researching, and "information age", a good review of samplers is here:

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/lost-art-sampling-part-1

 

Nice journey!