Casio AIX sound engine vs Casio AIR sound engine

[CharlieWorton]

Hi, all - the CT-X series of keyboards are now starting to show up in abundance.  And I'm curious: how does the CT-X 5000 - which uses the brand new AiX sound engine - compare to the Casio Privia PX-560, which uses the AiR sound engine?

 

There are a ton of differences between the two keyboards.  The PX-560 is 88 keys, has a color display, and sells for more than twice the price.  But I was curious as to the sound quality.  Does the new AiX sound engine match, or exceed, the quality of the AiR engine?

 

If it's about the same, or inferior, then we can expect little change to the PX-560.  But if it's markedly superior, then Casio might update the PX-560 with the new sound engine; and that would make delaying a purchase a wise choice.  I'm kind of settling on the PX-560, but I haven't entirely committed; it's a fair chunk of change, and I want to get it right.

 

So: how do the two sound engines compare?

 

Thanks, all - Charlie

[Brad Saucier]

Perhaps tell us what you would like to use your keyboard for mostly.  In a nutshell, AiR and AiX are equal in some ways, very different in others.  Different in part because of the samples and effects allocation, one geared towards digital piano and one towards a portable keyboard.  Equal because both produce CD quality sounds.

[CharlieWorton]

Hi, Brad - thanks for getting back to me.  My primary use for the keyboard would be as a home based instrument, for personal enjoyment.  I have some songs I've created using my Kurzweil K2000S, and would make use of the built in recorder/editor on the 560 to boil it down to a finished stereo song.  Also, the ability to connect the two keyboards directly via MIDI ports is important to me; I believe that I could control the Kurzweil using the 560 as a controller.  The categories of sound I use the most, ordered by importance to me, are Piano, Strings, Sax and Brass.  I would not be moving the instrument, or doing performances, or teaching.

 

I had been considering a Casio WK-7600, but many have complained that the sounds are not particularly realistic, and the physical construction is not robust.  In addition, the keyboard has been out there for a lot of years, as has the sound engine.  And the WK-7600 is not a true MIDI instrument, nor is it an 88 key board.  Anyway, I decided against it.

 

Sound quality is really important to me.  One of the things I love about the K2000S is the realism of many of the instruments.

 

The CT-X5000 is getting rave reviews.  But it's a 61 key board, which I find too small; and it's not MIDI, which kills connection of the instruments via MIDI.

 

So, I was wondering if the PX-560 would be getting an update.  If the AiX engine sounds markedly superior to the AiR sound engine, it would be worth waiting for an update.  But if the AiR engine is as good, or better, than the AiX engine, the PX-560 would meet pretty much all my needs.  To this point, I think the AiR sound engine has been Casios flagship product, while the AiX, although much newer, is being rolled out first on their entry level and intermediate boards.  So, perhaps it's not intended to compete against their AiR engine.

 

So, which is more realistic: AiR, or AiX?

 

Thanks, Charlie

[sslyutov]

AiX does not target advanced piano sound technology.

 

"The AiX Sound Source allows the CT-X keyboards to faithfully reproduce the appealing sound of acoustic instruments such as guitars, drums, basses, brass, wind instruments, string ensembles and more."

https://www.casio.com/news/detail/casio-to-release-advanced-electronic-keyboards-featuring-new-aix-sound-source

 

 

AiR ( Acoustic and Intelligent  Resonator ) is the piano-oriented technology.

https://www.casio-intl.com/my/en/emi/privia/info/

[CharlieWorton]

Thanks, Sslyutov.  I went to the links you provided, and you're entirely correct.  And this is confusing, because the thing that everyone is raving about on the AiX sound engine is the realism of the Pianos!  Bizarre.  Perhaps what they're talking about, is the realism of the pianos in an instrument of the given price category?  Yet, that isn't what they're saying.  The general consensus is "Wow - best piano ever'.  Wish I could do an A:B comparison, but the nearest music store that carries Casio is about 1,000 miles away.  Sigh.

 

>Charlie

[Brad Saucier]

I'll see if I can get you a side by side grand piano demo between the CT-X5000 and PX-5S.  They have quite different piano sounds.  I really like both for different reasons.   

[CharlieWorton]

Brad, that would be really helpful!  Thanks for any clarity you can provide.  I appreciate it.  If you've played both the CT-X5000 and the PX-5S, I'd certainly appreciate your subjective feelings about the two instruments, who their intended market is, and what they're best at.

>Charlie

[sslyutov]

As far as I can see AiR involves some mechanical solutions besides of a sound engine.

AiR takes the similar approach that Kawai does.

In my opinion, Kawai is the leader in this field (digital pianos).

 

However, all judgment about sound quality is subjective.

It depends a lot on what you used to hear.

And you can get used virtually to any and start liking it.

 

[Brad Saucier]

https://soundcloud.com/bradmz/ctx-px-grands/s-utzny

 

[CharlieWorton]

Hi, Brad - thanks so much for posting the audio files.  I'm assuming they came from the same MIDI file, or something.

 

In general, I prefer the first one.  It seems to offer more contrast, more realism.

 

I didn't see any labels on the files.  Which is which?

 

Thanks, Charlie

[Brad Saucier]

I played the PX-5S myself and recorded it as a mid file to play back on the CT-X5000.  My observations: The first sound has ambience and some distance away from the listener.  The second sound is clearer and close to the listener, like an open lid piano heard up close.  I would choose the first sound for mellow ambient solo performance or for blending into a mix and the second for powerful sound that can stand out in a mix of other sounds.  Really, both are necessary in my book.  The first piano is CT-X5000, second is PX-5S (nothing tweaked on either, factory default, first piano sound in each model). 

[CharlieWorton]

Hey, Brad - first up, gotta tell you, you're massively good.  That's spectacular playing.  When I grow up, I wanna play like that.

 

It's really useful to have this comparison.  It's great to have a recording of the Casio AiR engine up directly against the new Casio AiX engine.  In truth, both of them sounded excellent; I think that if I had either one in my home, I'd be happy.  It's just amazing that the CT-X5000 can sound this good, while selling for considerably less than half the price of the PX-560.  Of course, you're getting an 88 key weighted keyboard and a color display with the PX-560... but even so.

 

I think that, were I a manufacturer of keyboards in the $500 to $2,000 range, I'd be quite concerned.  The CT-X5000 is a world class instrument, and I think it's going to create a significant seismic shift in the music industry.  If it hasn't already.

 

Brad, thanks again for your help.  Your efforts have helped me clarify my thoughts.

 

Best, Charlie

[Brad Saucier]

You're right, what they have done in the CT-X series is amazing.  One thing to keep in mind, I played that on 88 keys.  I'm not sure I could have done exactly the same thing on only 61 keys.

[Joe Muscara]

FWIW, I've seen marketing materials for the CT-X series that say, "Brilliant concert grand, recorded with 24 microphones."

 

OTOH, the PX-560 says it has Sympathetic String Resonance and Key Off Simulation.

 

I don't know how many microphones the PX-560 piano was recorded with, and I haven't tried the CT-X5000 to yet to tell if it has Sympathetic String Resonance and Key Off Simulation. I would bet that the AiX is the future for Casio products. What it can do as far as DSP effects is pretty amazing, and probably much more advanced than any Casio prior to it. When new AiX-based products would arrive is anyone's guess, though. I would have thought that color touch screens were the future for Casio keyboards as well, but they didn't appear on the CT-X models so what do I know.

 

The question in these kinds of things is always, "do you want to get what's best for you now in terms of price, features, and performance or do you want to wait for what might be better later?"

[sslyutov]

Get Kronos  forget about CT-X.

Any major product (technology) lives at least 20 years.

I do not think there is an option to wait.

Linear Morphing AiF/AiR Sound Engine was presented in 2009.

Actually AiF in 2009 and AiR in 2012. AiR is based on AiF.

I can not find information on whether AiX is an extension of AiR.

I would assume that it is not.

 

 

 

[Jokeyman123]

I don't know-I haven't found too many keyboards that do a real good job with orchestral instruments since so much of that depends upon individual player's skills, types of mouthpieces for horns and woodwinds-finger-picking or plectrums on guitars,l bowing on strings-and I don't hear much of a difference in the sound "quality" between the 560 and the other newer Casios. the MZ-X series has samples with nuances that a musician might use to be more expressive-but that's nothing new, and i find some of the acoustic instruments not overly impressive in the 560 (I own that and have been creating some arrangements with it). I am not seeing enough technical info about AIX to convince me that its not just another label to slightly differentiate it from the AIR technology, which is pretty impressive in its own right.  If you want mostly keyboard performance oriented sounds, the variety of eps, acoustic pianos and organs cover alot of ground. And the hex layer tones are also pretty powerful and emulate some classic synths pretty convincingly, at least IMO. Some of the PX sounds I have not heard in any but my older Ensoniq TS-12 which has some excellent orchestral sounds why I kept it-and GEM Equinox and SK76, and even close to a few in my SY77-shades of FM in a few. There are quite a few expression pedal options, which can also bring in some real nice effects if you know how to program your own sounds. 

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[vbdx66]

On 8/1/2018 at 3:35 AM, Brad Saucier said:

You're right, what they have done in the CT-X series is amazing.  One thing to keep in mind, I played that on 88 keys.  I'm not sure I could have done exactly the same thing on only 61 keys.

Hi Brad, very nice performance. I also like the first track better. It would be interesting to hear the same track with the CT-X5000 patch no 2, which is the Grand Piano and is probably closer to the feel of the PX-560 patch.

 

What I am waiting for is a board with the AiX chip under the hood but with the ergonomy either of the PX-560 or of the MZ-X500. Such a keyboard (either with 61 or 88 keys, or both), with the colour screen, control knobs or pads, etc., would steal the market.

 

I am wondering whether, from a purely technical point of view, it would be possible to envisage a synth with AiX and Hex Layer?

 

Well, one can always dream, in the meantime I’ll pursue my musical path with the CT-X800 and the Yamaha DGX650. 😎

Edited March 6, 2019 by vbdx66
Typo

[Joe Muscara]

4 hours ago, vbdx66 said:

What I am waiting for is a board with the AiX chip under the hood but with the ergonomy either of the PX-560 or of the MZ-X500. Such a keyboard (either with 61 or 88 keys, or both), with the colour screen, control knobs or pads, etc., would steal the market.

What's in the new CDP-S and PX-S models is basically an advancement of AiX. Even though Casio called the new PX-S models AiR, they should have called them AiR2 or AiR+ or AiRX or anything but simply AiR. I'd encourage you to check out the CDP-S350 (it has all the sounds and rhythms of the higher-end CT-X models) and the PX-S3000 which similarly has the same sounds and rhythms with a whole lot more.

 

No, they don't have the color screen, control knobs, pads, etc., but maybe there will be a PX-S someday that has some of that. Meanwhile, the CDP-S350 is an awesome board especially for the price and I'm awaiting the PX-S3000.

 

(I simply don't know if the CDP-S nor the PX-S models could fit the color screen Casio used on the PX360/560/CGP-700, nor if they could make one that does fit and works well ergonomically.)

[Brad Saucier]

Well, we actually can add a touch screen to CDP-S and PX-S models.  Just connect a compatible smart phone or tablet and use the Chordana Play for piano app. 

[vbdx66]

Hi @Joe Muscara and thanks for this explanation.

 

Actually, if I understand this correctly, the CDP-S350, even if it has more sounds like the CT-X3000/5000, is basically a CT-X800 with 88 weighted keys and the possibility to add a three-pedals pedal stand but basically, it has the same UI as the CT-X800, so no adjustable volume of splits and layers and no possibility to edit the tones beyond adjusting Chorus, Reverb and EQ, also no possibility to edit the DSPs. And its small orange screen is not very user friendly to do any editing anyway. So IMO its ergonomics and control possibilities are not par or even comparable with those of the PX-360 and 560.

 

As for the PX-S3000, it looks like a great stage lightweight sleek digital piano, but it goes nowhere near the CT-X3000/5000 or Privia PX360/560 in terms of sound editing, MIDI recording etc. I can’t believe that the PX-S3000 has only a three-track MIDI recorder (my “small” CT-X800 can accommodate up to 6 tracks!) and, if I understand this correctly - but please correct me if I am wrong -, that it can’t even upload new rhythms!!!

OK, granted, it has 200 rhythms onboard, but even the CT-X700, which is labelled as an entry level keyboard, can upload 10 external rhythms. And we know very well that keyboard players are always looking for more rhythms, there is always this old country number or that new hit in the charts for which no onboard rhythm will be suitable...

 

So yes, I think I’ll wait for the successor to the PX360/560. If Casio’s engineers managed to port the AiX chip to the CDP ergonomy (the CDP-S350 has more or less the look and feel of the CDP 200 but with the AiX chip), I bet they can do the same thing and launch a successor to the PX-360/560 powered by the AiX chip. I am betting for Winter NAMM 2020.

 

In the meantime, I’ll stick to my CT-X800 which I find really great (it goes way beyond a beginner keyboard and is a great, light portable keyboard with nice sounds and is super-easy to use) and when I’ll feel that have outgrown it, I’ll probably go for the CT-X3000 and try to fathom its cumbersome user interface.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[vbdx66]

3 minutes ago, Brad Saucier said:

Well, we actually can add a touch screen to CDP-S and PX-S models.  Just connect a compatible smart phone or tablet and use the Chordana Play for piano app. 

Hi Brad,

 

Of course you can do this (and it will be most than welcome by some users) but:

 

1. It is nice to have everything on the keyboard itself and not everybody is willing to use a keyboard connected to a tablet or a phone (the simpler the setting, the nicer IMO).

2. Even when used together with the Chordana Play Piano app, the CDP-S350 and PX-S3000 won’t have the deep sound editing capabilities of the CT-X3000/5000 and of the PX350/560.

 

What I am saying is that the next top of the line Privia PX piano deserves the AiX chip (or a subsequent, even better chip) and the coloured touch screen of the Privia PX360/560. Such an instrument would play in the same league as the Yamaha Genos or Korg PA4X, but with 88 graded weighted keys and probably (knowing Casio’s price policy) at a more palatable price than its contenders.

 

Regards.

[Brad Saucier]

45 minutes ago, vbdx66 said:

As for the PX-S3000, it looks like a great stage lightweight sleek digital piano, but it goes nowhere near the CT-X3000/5000 or Privia PX360/560 in terms of sound editing

 

We're still waiting on the PX-S3000 manual for full details, but I'm pretty sure it has all of the sound editing from the CT-X3000/5000 plus more.  

 

[Mike Martin]

Let me clarify one thing in regards to the new PX-S series products.  The PX-S3000 in particular has ALL of the capabilities (sounds and effects wise) of the AiX engine, plus it has our next generation AiR engine which is far beyond other Privia models in terms of piano realism.  

[Mike Martin]

Also in regards to the original question - the synthesis capabilities in products like the PX-5S and PX-560 are still superior to the other products which only allow some relatively basic editing (besides effects).  So power depends on your needs and how much you intend on diving in.  The CT-X series does have some new samples that aren't found in the PX-560 which is great but the PX-560 also has some samples and sounds that aren't in the CT-X.  Neither is meant as a replacement for the other - as another example the PX-5S and PX-560 are similar in a lot of ways but their aimed at two completely different customers. 

[CharlieWorton]

Oh, people... this is a hard post to make.  And it may not be appropriate; I'm probably not making great decisions right now.  Feel free to skip over all of this.

 

I got involved with this board as a result of my interest in a Casio WK-7600 keyboard.  I actually bought one, but about 2 hours after I placed my order the CT-X series of keyboards hit the news.  I wound up returning the WK-7600 without ever opening the box, as a result of the superior sound engine in the CT-X keyboards.  At the time, I hoped that the CT-X engine would be transposed into a successor to the WK-7600; and there were also the CT-X3000 and 5000 boards to consider.

 

In a vaguely related issue, I suffer from a genetic disease called Dupuytren's Contracture.  It's painless; but it causes the tendons in your hands to contract, pulling your fingers towards your palm.  I was unable to open my left hand sufficiently to play a chord.  The classical solution is extensive hand surgery; general anesthesia, cut out the diseased tissue from the palm and fingers, and graft in new skin harvested from another location on the body.  The result looks like hell, but it does (mostly) restore hand function.

 

But there was another option; a new injectable treatment called Xiaflex, which would dissolve the scar tissue that was causing the contraction.  The problem was the price; about $1,500 per vial, not covered by Canadian health care, and I would need 3 vials.  Fortunately my plastic surgeon was able to obtain some vials from the supplier, and the injections were done, and I largely regained the use of my left hand.  It wasn't perfect, but I could again play the keyboards.

 

Meanwhile, my younger sister asked my opinion on an inexpensive, high feature set keyboard; she had trained as a classical pianist, and although she had let her music lapse for about 20 years, she wanted to have a keyboard readily available in her home that she could play when she was in the mood.  Through an interesting stroke of luck, Axe Music - the local Casio dealership - had been bought out by a competitor, and they were discontinuing Casio keyboards.  I made a call, I got her a deal, and about 4 hours later she owned a Casio WK-7600.

 

Then, things went a bit sideways.  The Xiaflex treatments are not a permanent cure; but most people get between 2 and 5 years.  In my case, I got about 6 months; by October 2018, I could again no longer use my left hand to make music.  The fingers were tightly clenched again.

 

My younger sister has long suffered from attacks of Pancreatitis; an inflammation of the Pancreas.  She began to suffer attacks again in October.  The general approach is to eliminate fats and to take enzymes that will allow the pancreas to rest; she did this, but the strategy wasn't working.  She was hospitalized several times, including over Christmas; but nothing they tried was bringing any relief.  On January 16, she again was admitted for severe pancreatitis.  Finally, in early February, they determined that she was suffering from stage 4 Pancreatic Cancer, which had metastasized to her liver.  It was non treatable, and she had only a few weeks of life left.

 

My beautiful baby sister died today.  She died peacefully, with no signs of distress or discomfort, surrounded by her closest family and friends.  She has asked that she be cremated, and that her ashes be scattered in a part of the Canadian Rockies that she truly loved.

 

I was always her protector.  I took her tobogganing.  I helped her learn to parallel park.  I installed her first car stereo, and her satellite TV receiver.  Most recently, this past summer, I helped build a fence at her new home to keep her new puppy dog in the back yard.

 

And I couldn't protector her from this.  And she is gone.

 

And - most delicious of black ironies - I have inherited her Casio WK-7600 keyboard, which I can no longer play.

 

I don't even know why I'm typing this.  It's certainly far off topic.  But I don't have anyone else to talk to; and at least, we are all musicians.  We love music.  We share that.  It's a bit like having family.

 

Again, I'm sorry to have wasted your time.  My best wishes to you all... Charlie