Keyboard Scaling

[chuckbutler]

Hey Mike,

 

Did my first gig with the PX-5S last night and immediately noticed something that I hadn't at home. This was a jazz trio, and I found that the balance between the upper and lower registers of the piano is "tilted" rather heavily to the lower end. IOW, taking middle C as a "center point," I find that the upper register fades (level-wise) as I ascend while the lower register does the reverse (much more dramatically than on a normal acoustic piano). This is problematic in a jazz context because the upper register doesn't "speak" during solos the way it would on an acoustic grand (or the Roland board I was using previously). I assume that there's a parameter to control keyboard scaling somewhere in the patch (I was using the stock Concert Grand, SS 0-0)? I wonder if you could point me in the right direction on where to find that. Basically I just need the upper register to speak a bit more and to tame the low register a bit, to "tilt" the patch in the other direction.

 

One other thing: can the 5S' sustain pedal be replaced with any stock damper pedal (say, a Roland pedal)? I find that the one that shipped with the 5S is too light and (as a result) is constantly sliding away.

 

Oh, and FWIW, it's almost impossible to see the position of the main volume and the other 4 knobs under stage lighting conditions. I'd suggest that you need (perhaps) a while "hash" mark that makes it easy to see the current position of the knob. I wound up taking a white permanent marker and adding these myself.   ;-)

[Mike Martin]

If you've found it balanced at home, as do I, how as the PX-5S amplified for the live gig? I suspect it is not an issue of being to loud in one register or another rather an issue of EQ. I'd suggest that you take advantage of the system EQ and roll off a a touch of the low end or low mid frequencies.

[Mike Martin]

You can use ANY pedal with the PX-5S just plug it in before you turn it on and it will detect the polarity. Casio makes a larger nice pedal called a SP-20

[chuckbutler]

If you've found it balanced at home, as do I, how as the PX-5S amplified for the live gig? I suspect it is not an issue of being to loud in one register or another rather an issue of EQ. I'd suggest that you take advantage of the system EQ and roll off a a touch of the low end or low mid frequencies.

 

This was a small venue, no PA, so I was just using my Hartke KM200 as I often do in such situations.

 

This is not an EQ issue, Mike; it's not a question of the upper register not being bright enough. It's strictly a level/balance issue. And it's not surprising that in a nice, quiet home environment this would not be as apparent. But just to compare, this morning I set up my 5S right next to my Fantom X8 and my Kawai KG2S acoustic. As I play upward from middle C on these three instruments, there is no question but that the 5S trails off considerably more than the other 2 (noticeably so). Now, don't get me wrong: the *sound* of the 5S piano is competitive (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it). There's nothing lacking in the quality of the instrument's upper register; it just doesn't project as well as either my real grand or my Fantom (and BTW, I'm listening to the Fantom through the same Hartke amp with the same EQ settings as the 5S).

 

So again, most synths have a keyboard scaling parameter that makes it possible to "tip" the relative loudness of an instrument around a center point. Does such a parameter exist in the 5S? If so, this should be an easy tweak . . . or maybe there's another way to accomplish what I'm after?

[Mike Martin]

Yes there are ways to change it. Before getting into editing presets, I'd recommend that try some of the other piano presets in the PX-5S. The Modern Grand preset might give you the sound you're looking for. The only Stage Setting that uses that particular piano tone is 5-0 which also has a pad behind it. If you start with Stage Setting 0-0 just using the up/down arrows on the upper right of the keyboard will scroll you through the other piano tones then you can store it in a Stage Setting so you can get to it quickly.

In Version 1.00 they do have keyboard scaling (tracking) which you can use for filter or amp to "tip" the response like a see-saw around any point such as middle C. If you were to edit the tone, you'll find it in both the AMP and Filter sections.

In version 1.10 (not released yet) they have added a second "break point" which will allow you to boost one area without effecting another. You might find the see-saw in v1.00 too dramatic of a see-saw thats why we added the second one. I hope this helps.

[chuckbutler]

That's a big help, Mike; I'll give the Modern Grand preset a try. I've been waiting to get deeper into preset programming until the Mac editor is released, but at least now I know where to look and what I'm looking for if I decide that I do need to adjust the scaling. And having the second break point should definitely allow me to tweak the piano to fit my needs and playing style perfectly. Thanks!

[chuckbutler]

In Version 1.00 they do have keyboard scaling (tracking) which you can use for filter or amp to "tip" the response like a see-saw around any point such as middle C. If you were to edit the tone, you'll find it in both the AMP and Filter sections.

 

Mike, when I go into Edit > Tone I can't find anything like a tracking parameter under either Amp or Filter. Are you sure it's there in 1.0?

[Mike Martin]

Chuck,

My mistake, this is only in a HexLayer program and unfortunately that means solving your issue is going to be a challenge.  I'll check with Tokyo as well and do some comparisons myself.

 

In the meantime, double check other piano presets and try different velocity curves.

[Brad Saucier]

Chuck, I know where your coming from with the tonal balance issue.  I have the same issue with my MZ-2000.  On some songs I find that the left hand accompaniment overpowers the right hand melody no matter how I set the cutoff filter or velocity curve.   Whether its a reflection of the sound system's eq curve or its internal to the keyboard samples or just my left hand, I don't know.  But I agree that on board compensation would be very helpful.  

 

I did come up with my own workaround for this.  Its not easy or quick though.  For me, on the MZ-2000 you can create a user tone with 4 layers and then set upper and lower key limit  for each layer.   I set all four layers to the piano tone i like and then divide the layers key range among the keys where i think they would best hide the transition.   Then I set volume levels and lowpass filter levels for each range to shift the balance of the keyboard.  I'm sure the Px5 can do this easily.   Its not and ideal solution,  but it works surprisingly well in a bind.  At least until Mike the magician comes up with something else.

[chuckbutler]

Great suggestion, Brad. Thanks!

[Brad Saucier]

Glad to help.