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#1 willf

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:44 AM

Mike,

 

a while back in the Nord User Forum you posted:

 

To clarify the PX-5S can do 4 zones. 2 of those zones can do Casio's "Hex Layer Programs" which themselves are 6 layers each (split, layered or velocity switched in any manner). So two Hex layer programs, plus two regular programs is a total of 14 layers at once.

 

 

Just to make sure I am understanding this correctly. Is it possible to create a hex Layer that uses the whole 88 notes, but to have elements that are split across the keyboard, for example, Cello in bass, Viola in Middle, Violin in Upper? I hope that this makes sense.


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#2 BradMZ

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:57 AM

I think I can help with this.  

 

Yes you can do that.  You set the "Upper Key Range" and Lower Key Range"  for each layer.  

 

For example: Cello can be set to Upper Key Range C2 and nothing in that layer will sound above that note.  

 

The same goes for lower key range in that nothing will sound below the specified note.  Just make these settings for each layer and you should be good. 



#3 willf

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:24 AM

I think I can help with this.  

 

Yes you can do that.  You set the "Upper Key Range" and Lower Key Range"  for each layer.  

 

For example: Cello can be set to Upper Key Range C2 and nothing in that layer will sound above that note.  

 

The same goes for lower key range in that nothing will sound below the specified note.  Just make these settings for each layer and you should be good.  You can even overlap layers if you like, or not.

 

Brad,

 

thanks. If you overlap layers can you use velocity switching to change the 'balance of sounds'?



#4 BradMZ

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:34 AM

You can set velocity limits upper and lower in a similar fashion to the key range limits.  Velocity outside of these limits will become silent.   Keep in mind the velocity setting will affect the entire key range of a that layer (not just where it overlaps with another).   

 

I'm not an owner of a PX5s.  I'm going from the pdf manual for it and my experience with my MZ-2000 which has these same parameters as the px5.   There may be more new tricks added since the old MZ days.


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#5 willf

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:12 AM

You can set velocity limits upper and lower in a similar fashion to the key range limits.  Velocity outside of these limits will become silent.   Keep in mind the velocity setting will affect the entire key range of a that layer (not just where it overlaps with another).   

 

I'm not an owner of a PX5s.  I'm going from the pdf manual for it and my experience with my MZ-2000 which has these same parameters as the px5.   There may be more new tricks added since the old MZ days.

 

Again thanks. I have just found and downloaded the manuals.



#6 Mike Martin

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:48 AM

Mike,

 

a while back in the Nord User Forum you posted:

 

To clarify the PX-5S can do 4 zones. 2 of those zones can do Casio's "Hex Layer Programs" which themselves are 6 layers each (split, layered or velocity switched in any manner). So two Hex layer programs, plus two regular programs is a total of 14 layers at once.

 

 

Just to make sure I am understanding this correctly. Is it possible to create a hex Layer that uses the whole 88 notes, but to have elements that are split across the keyboard, for example, Cello in bass, Viola in Middle, Violin in Upper? I hope that this makes sense.

 

Yes.  In the PX-5S already there is a Hex-Layer tone called "Concert Strings".   I actually used the 6 layers to arrange the strings in the stereo field as they would be in an orchestra.  So the bass notes are panned right, the cello or mid section is a little more center and so on.   You could easily edit this and change the layers to build something else. 


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#7 BradMZ

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:40 AM

Good idea about the stereo panning Mike.

 

Question?   If  6 layers are set up to different key ranges (each overlapping by several notes or more),  can the overlaps be cross faded to give a smoother transition between them?    I.E.  As you play from low notes to high notes the volume of one layer would fade out as the next layer fades in.   



#8 Mike Martin

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:41 PM

In the "Concert Strings" that I made, they are not crossfaded.  In theory, it could be done with the upcoming v1.10 because they additional AMP/Filter breakpoints have been added.  I will have to experiment with this.


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#9 BradMZ

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:33 PM

Thanks Mike.  

 

I assume the pdf manual will be updated with the new firmware changes.  I will study into it more at that time..



#10 willf

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:02 PM

In the "Concert Strings" that I made, they are not crossfaded.  In theory, it could be done with the upcoming v1.10 because they additional AMP/Filter breakpoints have been added.  I will have to experiment with this.

Mike,

 

if this can be done, and the base samples are 'OK', then this will come close to what can be achieved (is programmed) on the Kurzweil PC3 series - quite an accolade!



#11 willf

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:06 PM

Yes.  In the PX-5S already there is a Hex-Layer tone called "Concert Strings".   I actually used the 6 layers to arrange the strings in the stereo field as they would be in an orchestra.  So the bass notes are panned right, the cello or mid section is a little more center and so on.   You could easily edit this and change the layers to build something else. 

 

Thanks Mike. I look forward to listening to this when the PX-5S finally ships to the UK. The capabilities of the instrument are looking increasingly impressive.



#12 Mike Martin

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:10 PM

Mike,

 

if this can be done, and the base samples are 'OK', then this will come close to what can be achieved (is programmed) on the Kurzweil PC3 series - quite an accolade!

 

I don't think they're crossfaded on the PC3 but I'll check.  I worked at Kurzweil for 8 years and the PC3X was the last instrument I purchased before coming to work for Casio.  ;)

Kurzweil has a trick where pan position for each note can be determined by the note range.  They started doing this when piano samples were mono, so the bass notes were panned left, middle C was in the middle and the treble notes were on the far right.

For string ensembles they simply reversed this so bass was on the right.  That is actually the effect I was going after in the Concert Strings patch to give it move depth.  We can't modulate pan by note number so I grouped it and spread it across 6 layers.


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#13 BradMZ

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:27 PM

I understand Mike.

 

CASIO did this with their mono piano samples on the MZ.  The preset sample was called "G. Piano WIDE".   IDK if it still exist today in some form.  Unfortunately there was no way for the user to create something like this.



#14 Mike Martin

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:52 PM

Hey Brad,
The current engine is different.  I haven't seen this but I'll double check if it is possible some other way.


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#15 BradMZ

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:42 PM

Understood.

 

The ZPI engine was great in its day and still sounds good, but it was replaced some years ago.   Today,  the AIR engine is a nice step up.   I have been able to hear a marked improvement in the smoothness and warmth of the new engine (even trough compressed youtube and soundcloud samples).  Even the XW series has some mild graininess (technical term) :) and slight harshness that is just not there in the PX5s.  (again, judging from samples... so I could be wrong).

 

Is there any way to hear an uncompressed (wav)  grand piano sample piece from the PX5s? 



#16 Mike Martin

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:25 PM

The ZPI engine was excellent.  The AiR engine surpasses it in so many ways.  It is silky smooth and rich. I have a hard time listening to some of the SoundCloud and Youtube clips especially when I've recorded most of them and know what the original sounded like. 

 

Of course the PX-5S is a Stage Piano first but I'm so amazed by the sound of the filters and effects as a synth too.

 

I'll work on some uncompressed piano stuff but it won't be for a little bit.  I'm juggling several video projects at the moment then traveling the first few days next week.


-Mike Martin
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#17 BradMZ

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 12:36 AM

Mike.

 

WOW!  Impressive!   Knowing that your original recordings sound better than the Soundcloud versions is very important info.   Maybe you could  find a way to help make potential buyers aware of this.  

 

Hearing the keyboard in person "live" would be ideal.   But for me...  for the time being,  the internet will have to suffice, unless you know of any dealers in my area with one.

 

In the meantime, I look forward  to hearing some uncompressed recordings.

 

Thanks my friend.  I feel so well informed.  Casio should promote you.  But then who will monitor the forums? lol   Me?  We don't want that.  I've overstayed my welcome already. :)






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