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      Important Reminder: Make sure your PX-5S is updated to firmware version 1.13. Click the post title above to be taken to a video that will show you how to check your firmware version, where to get the firmware, and how to install the update if needed. 
         
Mike Martin

Stage Settings and Tones

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This question was just asked on another forum, it is worthy of a sticky.

 

What is supposed to be the relationship between the Tone listed in Stage Setting and the Tone as it exists in the Tone settings. For example: Stage setting 0-4 is AutoWahClav1. It indicates Tone P:040 as Wah Clavi 1. But in the Tone settings P040 is Clavi 4, and Wah Clavi 1 is actually P041. So if I press the minus button once then plus button, I expect to be back at Wah Clavi 1 but actually end up with Clavi 4. Confusing?

 

The PX-5S does something unique when it comes to the Stage Settings. Other companies may calls these Performances, Setups or Registrations but the concept is the essentially the same. What makes the PX-5S unique is that tones themselves are stored within the Stage Setting.

Here is the basic concept. You're performing and you need a particular sound, lets say its a rhodes. So you go to the tone section and find one that responds basically the way you want. This song requires an effect so you add one and adjust to taste. So you've made a Setting for a specific song. Most keyboards would require that you save the tone separately - which adds a different level of confusion at times.

So many of the Stage Settings are like this, we've taken the ingredients (tone)- then customized the controls and effects. When you save the Stage Setting, all stuff that is supposed to go with it stays with it. This makes it very easy to share Stage Settings too.

Now while you're creating a Stage Setting and you think...oh I might use this later for something else, you can choose to save the tone as well independently of the Stage Setting. This will allow you to load it in to another Stage Setting, perhaps on another zone. 
If not you may have a tone that only exists within a Stage Setting.

 

 

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is it worthy of a sticky?

 

I vote yes.

 

This clears up a lot of things for me. I never would've guessed that the PX-5s was able to save the altered tones in the Stage Setting (ie. registration).   I've had many frustrated moments when a registration is trying to recall a user tone tone that no longer exist or is mislocated.  This is genius!   and time saving!  and comforting to know that your hard work will stay intact even if you lose the user tone outside of the stage setting.  

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Hi, Mike (and anyone else who'd like to weigh in on this) - 

 

Just received my PX-5S on Monday.  Within 5 minutes of playing it, I was on the phone ordering a custom-made gig bag.  GREAT instrument!

 

I'm still having a problem wrapping my brain around the concept of Stage Settings, and how they interact with Tones.  I've done lots of online research, checked out the videos, manuals, etc., but the documentation of this concept is still rather sketchy.

 

When you state (above): "Other companies may calls these Performances, Setups or Registrations but the concept is the essentially the same" - that is crystal-clear to me.  I've been a longtime Kurzweil user, and am intimately acquainted with "Setups," which is their terminology for Casio's "Stage Settings."  BUT, with Kurzweil (and other manufacturers), Setups are a separate mode from "Programs" (or "Tones," in Casio's terminology).  Maybe it's the user interface, but with the PX-5S, It appears that I can be in Stage Settings mode, yet scroll through Tones and hear them separately from the obvious, massively layered/split Stage Settings.

 

I'm just not grasping something that I'm sure is very simple; could you please enlighten me by walking all of us slowly and clearly through these concepts, and explaining the interaction/differences of Stage Settings and Tones so that I'm able to better understand the architecture of the instrument?  I think many would benefit from a thorough discussion of this topic, as I've only seen it touched on briefly in a few places.

 

Thanks very much!

 

Oh, and did I mention that I LOVE the PX-5S?  Great job, everyone!

 

Dan

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Hi Dan

The PX-5S always operates in Stage Settings. So there is no separate "Tone" mode, or "Performance" mode like we have on say the XW series.

Now, since we are always operating in a Stage Setting, the tone category buttons will scroll through tones, but by doing so you are choosing which tone to use for the current Zone you have active within the Stage Setting. When you press EDIT, you'll notice you are prompted to edit either the Tone, or the Stage Setting. This is where the uniqueness of the PX-5S comes in.

If you go ahead here and choose to edit the tone, and then make your changes, then press WRITE - you can choose to save the Stage Setting as a whole, which INCLUDES the edits you made to the tone, without you needing to save the tone separately.

On other keyboards, to edit a tone, you most likely need to go into the individual "Tone Mode" (or single, or program or any other interchangeable terminology between brands) make your changes, save the tone, then call up your Performance/Registration/Program, bring the new edited tone back in, and re-save the Performance/Registration/Program.

Again, by comparison, the PX-5S allows you within a Stage Setting to edit a tone, and save the whole lot in one step.

The only thing to remember here though is the edited tone only exists within that particular Stage Setting. So if you would like to access your edited tone within a different stage setting, you would then need to save the tone separately to a User Tone slot.

Hope it's starting to make sense!

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I actually have a few questions about this.

 

1. It would seem, however, that I can only edit the Tone in Z1. In other words, if I have a SS that uses 4 different Tones, it's the Tone in Z1 that gets edited when I choose Edit > Tone. So if I need to make a change to the Tone in Z2, for example, I need to load that Tone into Z1 of some other SS, edit it, and then load it into Z2 of the original SS I was editing. Is that correct?

 

2. Let's say I've got a SS that's using a single Tone in Z1, and let's say that I edit that Tone. You're saying that unless I plan on using that Tone in other SS I really don't need to make a point to save it independently--the changes to the Tone will be saved along with the SS. (This explains why we are able to download Stage Settings and not worry about also downloading the Tones associated with it--since they are saved as part of the SS). But here's what I'm not clear about: suppose I *do* save the edited Tone separately; and suppose that this tone is used in multiple Stage Settings. Now, if I call up one of those Stage Settings and use Edit > Tone to modify the Tone (that is shared), when I save the Tone, will those changes be immediately reflected in *all* of the Stage Settings that have that Tone in common? Or do I need to call up each of them and reselect the (newly modified) Tone so that they all are up to date with the most recent modifications of that Tone?

 

3. Also, if the Stage Setting is storing changes to a Tone, where are those changes held? In other words, there is obviously a limit to the unit's storage capacity: X number of Stage Settings, X number of Tones. So does the Tone data saved with a SS take up Tone memory, or is it in addition to Tone memory (i.e. it just counts as part of the SS data)?

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I actually have a few questions about this.

 

1. It would seem, however, that I can only edit the Tone in Z1. In other words, if I have a SS that uses 4 different Tones, it's the Tone in Z1 that gets edited when I choose Edit > Tone. So if I need to make a change to the Tone in Z2, for example, I need to load that Tone into Z1 of some other SS, edit it, and then load it into Z2 of the original SS I was editing. Is that correct?

 

I'm away from my PX-5S, but IIRC, you should be able to go to the zone that has the tone that you want to edit, and edit it from there. Have you tried this?

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Hi Mike, that's sorta kinda helpful. I got my PX-5 a few days ago and I'm full on into rehearsals for a Taylor Dayne run of shows, I have absolutely zero time to muck around trying to navigate thru a new instrument. Is there any way it can be explained how I can grab some of my favorite tones (I already know a half dozen I love) and store them in "Stage Settings"? REALLY QUICKLY? I'm mystified, so far, how this works, I really don't get the concept yet. I'm hoping a realization will come. When one is in rehearsal with a high profile act, you really can't take any risks, so you have to play safe with all program choices, etc.

 

I'd really appreciate a "For Dummy's" language explanation if possible.

 

Thank you, Sam McNally, Australia.  

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 Is there any way it can be explained how I can grab some of my favorite tones (I already know a half dozen I love) and store them in "Stage Settings"? REALLY QUICKLY? I'm mystified, so far, how this works, I really don't get the concept yet. I'm hoping a realization will come. When one is in rehearsal with a high profile act, you really can't take any risks, so you have to play safe with all program choices, etc.

 

What you want to do is pretty quick and easy:

 

1. Call up a basic Stage Setting that has just 1 Zone enabled; the 0-0 Piano is a good starting point (Press BANK > 0 > 0)

2. Now use the Tone category buttons on the left and either the YES/NO buttons or knob 2 to select a Tone you like

3. Next, press WRITE, then ENTER to prepare to store this custom Stage Setting

4. Use the YES/NO buttons or knob 2 to choose a location to save your Setting. (WARNING: The PS-5X does not show you the name of the patch you're about to overwrite in the new location, so you'll want to plan ahead and think about where you're putting things.)

5. If desired, use the Right Arrow key and knob 2 to rename your custom Setting, then press ENTER. You're done.

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I'm away from my PX-5S, but IIRC, you should be able to go to the zone that has the tone that you want to edit, and edit it from there. Have you tried this?

 

Ah, okay, I see . . . you have to go into Zone edit first, select the Zone that contains the Tone you want to edit, then *back out* (EXIT) to get back to the Tone edit target. Unfortunately the only way to confirm that you're editing the Tone you think you're editing (other than the effect of any parameter changes you might make) is to scroll down to Name Edit--there's no other visual indication of what Tone is being edited.

 

Thanks, though; at least I now see how to do it.

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To clarify, to the bottom left of the display are buttons labeled Zone/Part -/+.

These buttons let you move between zones

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What you want to do is pretty quick and easy:

 

1. Call up a basic Stage Setting that has just 1 Zone enabled; the 0-0 Piano is a good starting point (Press BANK > 0 > 0)

2. Now use the Tone category buttons on the left and either the YES/NO buttons or knob 2 to select a Tone you like

3. Next, press WRITE, then ENTER to prepare to store this custom Stage Setting

4. Use the YES/NO buttons or knob 2 to choose a location to save your Setting. (WARNING: The PS-5X does not show you the name of the patch you're about to overwrite in the new location, so you'll want to plan ahead and think about where you're putting things.)

5. If desired, use the Right Arrow key and knob 2 to rename your custom Setting, then press ENTER. You're done.

Thanks Chuck, appreciate it. Gee and I thought editting a DX7 was tough! (back then). I guess it gets easy after the first 30 times....  SM.

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Thanks Chuck, appreciate it. Gee and I thought editting a DX7 was tough! (back then). I guess it gets easy after the first 30 times....  SM.

I think the problem is the relationship between Stage Setting and Tone categories..... it takes a bit to get yer head around

how they relate to each other. I'm simply not clear on that yet, even though I've read a little. Patience, oh man.....

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When you write it out in a series of steps it seems more complicated than it actually is. After you do it a few times you'll be able to create a simple Stage Setting in 10 seconds.

 

Coming from years of (mainly) Roland products, I too felt a little unclear about the Stage Setting / Tone relationship. But as Mike suggested to me, as a pro player, you're going to want to focus on the Stage Settings. I rarely even touch the Tone category buttons at this point other than to assign a Tone to a Zone when I'm creating a custom Stage Setting. What you really want to do is spend a little time getting all of your Stage Settings set up the way you like. I never touch the Tone category buttons during a live performance.

 

A killer feature, which I didn't realize until Mike pointed it out the other day, is that any Tone edits you make are saved within the current Stage Setting. This means that you don't (necessarily) have to take the additional step of individually saving the edits you make to Tones within a Stage Setting; just save the Stage Setting and it's all there. Definitely makes patch management easier. (Note: there are reasons why you might *want* to save individual Tone edits; for example if you create a Tone that will be shared by more than one Stage Setting.) The paradigm is similar to the familiar Patch/Performance distinction used in Roland (and other) products--the key difference being that on the PX-5S you are *always* in (what amounts to) Performance mode (that is, you are always working within a Stage Setting). So using the Tone category buttons is not quite like changing patches on other synths in the sense that there is no dedicated "Patch mode" on the PX-5S. You are always in "Performance mode" (that is, in a Stage Setting), so when you use the Category buttons to change a Tone, you are really changing the Tone assigned to Zone 1 (or whatever the current Zone you've selected is) within the current Stage Setting. Now, there's nothing wrong with doing this, it's just that from a pro user perspective you will probably want to specify key ranges and other controller options, and then line up your Stage Settings so that you can move through Stage Settings quickly and efficiently during a live performance. This is best accomplished by creating custom Stage Settings.

 

I'm sure Mike will post some videos about basic editing, but for now, all you need to understand is that each Stage Setting has 4 Zones:

 

Zone 1

Zone 2

Zone 3

Zone 4

 

You can assign a Tone (with some limitations re Hex Layers, see the docs) to any combination of Zones to create a Stage Setting. Many of the Stage Settings (like the electric and acoustic pianos) are just a single Tone assigned to Zone 1 with the other 3 Zones turned off. That's why those are a good starting point if you just want to create some simple Stage Settings using individual Tones that you like. Once you go into EDIT > Stage Setting > Zone Edit > Mixer Edit, you'll see that you can use the ZONE +/- buttons (to the left of the display) to move through the 4 Zones. Then you use the arrow keys (to the right of the display) to navigate through the parameters for each Zone. It's pretty straightforward once you spend a little time with it.

 

Within any given Zone, you can assign key and velocity ranges, so it's easy to create velocity layers and keyboard splits. I literally created 30-40 of the most essential Stage Settings I need for my gigs on the first day I had the keyboard. Spend a couple of hours with it; you'll figure it out. I learned a lot by just going into edit mode and looking around and the factory Stage Settings, just to see how they were set up.

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To clarify, to the bottom left of the display are buttons labeled Zone/Part -/+.

These buttons let you move between zones

 

Yes, thanks, that's clear, Mike. The thing that's maybe not so intuitive is that you have to select the Tone you want to edit from within EDIT > Stage Setting and *then* back out and go into EDIT > Tone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but once you're into EDIT > Tone there's no way to edit a Tone on one of the other Zones (only the last Zone selected in EDIT > Stage Setting is available for editing in EDIT > Tone). So if I'm finished editing the Tone assigned to Zone 1, and now I want to edit the Tone assigned to Zone 2, I have to go back into EDIT > Stage Setting, use the Zone +/- to select Zone 2, and then navigate back to EDIT > Tone. Correct?

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This question was just asked on another forum, it is worthy of a sticky.

 

 

 

 

The PX-5S does something unique when it comes to the Stage Settings. Other companies may calls these Performances, Setups or Registrations but the concept is the essentially the same. What makes the PX-5S unique is that tones themselves are stored within the Stage Setting.

Here is the basic concept. You're performing and you need a particular sound, lets say its a rhodes. So you go to the tone section and find one that responds basically the way you want. This song requires an effect so you add one and adjust to taste. So you've made a Setting for a specific song. Most keyboards would require that you save the tone separately - which adds a different level of confusion at times.

So many of the Stage Settings are like this, we've taken the ingredients (tone)- then customized the controls and effects. When you save the Stage Setting, all stuff that is supposed to go with it stays with it. This makes it very easy to share Stage Settings too.

Now while you're creating a Stage Setting and you think...oh I might use this later for something else, you can choose to save the tone as well independently of the Stage Setting. This will allow you to load it in to another Stage Setting, perhaps on another zone.  If not you may have a tone that only exists within a Stage Setting.

You say "What makes the PX-5S unique is that tones themselves are stored within the Stage Setting." That means we can store 100 stage settings with customized tones inside. So why is this link  http://www.casiomusicgear.com/products/menu_privia/PX-5S  stating that we have 350 user tones?

 

Thx for your help.

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Joelfan,
That is correct. There are 350 USER TONE locations.  Within each tone category, Piano, Electric Piano, Hex Layer...etc. there are User Tones available.  

 

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Re the Tone locations, this is a rare occasion where the manufacturer is (in a sense) understating the instrument's capabilities. As Mike points out above, the PX-5S can hold 350 user-customized Tones. But the PX-5S can also hold 100 user-customized Stage Settings, and any edits to the Tones that are used within a Stage Setting are retained as part of that Stage Setting's data. Since each Stage Setting can contain up to 4 Tones, that's an additional 400 custom Tones that a user could potentially have stored in the instrument.

 

At least that's my current understanding. Mike would have to tell us whether there is actually sufficient storage space in the 5S to max out as I've suggested. (And this re-raises a question I posed earlier in this thread: is the storage space for Tone data held within Stage Settings independent of that for individual Tones, such that one could literally store 350 custom Tones along with an additional 400 contained in Stage Settings?)

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Re the Tone locations, this is a rare occasion where the manufacturer is (in a sense) understating the instrument's capabilities. As Mike points out above, the PX-5S can hold 350 user-customized Tones. But the PX-5S can also hold 100 user-customized Stage Settings, and any edits to the Tones that are used within a Stage Setting are retained as part of that Stage Setting's data. Since each Stage Setting can contain up to 4 Tones, that's an additional 400 custom Tones that a user could potentially have stored in the instrument.

 

At least that's my current understanding. Mike would have to tell us whether there is actually sufficient storage space in the 5S to max out as I've suggested. (And this re-raises a question I posed earlier in this thread: is the storage space for Tone data held within Stage Settings independent of that for individual Tones, such that one could literally store 350 custom Tones along with an additional 400 contained in Stage Settings?)

This is exactly the doubt I was having when I asked the question.

Is it a total of 400+350?

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Hi Mike. I've still very much 'got L plates' re the PX-5. I'm on the road with Taylor Dayne and the amount of time I can get at my PX-5 is down to minutes before lengthy sound-checks, break time, then showtime. So I really cannot muck around. What I've set up so far works, it's good, and I ain't changing it til I know much, much more! Wisdom learnt from experience. What "seems" to be how it is, is this: I edit a Tone (say, add some chorus and rev to a Rhodes piano).......... it only stays as a "write" save if I save it to BOTH the Tone and the Stage Setting, right? Or ONLY to the Stage Setting? I am not clear on this, and I can't surely say I've tried 1. saving to the Tone only, and 2. saving to the Stage Setting only .............. and getting my edits saved. Frankly I'm confused. So whenever I do anything I save it to both, not one or the other. 

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If you just save the Stage Setting you'll be fine.  But later take the time to save individual tones if you think you'll use them later in other Stage Settings and other zone locations.

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Ok, once you have layered two or more tone, how do you assign each tone to a slider, and how do you control volume for each tone? I made a c oouple of layers, but each tone plays the same volume. I want to start off a tune with just piano, and then gradually add pads and strings..How do I do this?

Thanks...

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jazzdoc52 - the simple answer is that you should be able to set the sliders (or knobs if you wish) to control individual volume layers. Just make sure that when you save the Stage Setting, the pads and strings layers volumes are at zero. Then, when you move their sliders, they will adjust that layer's volume. You should probably move those sliders to zero before you start playing so that when you adjust them, the volume doesn't jump to the current position.

 

See pages E-8 and E-34-35 of the tutorial manual for more info. If you need more help on how to edit the slider targets, post back and someone will help (I don't recall the steps offhand).

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I didn't get a tutorial in the box that the board came in...was there supposed to be? Is there an online tutorial?

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