mixer parts

[egw]

It seems that the assignment of tones to the mixer parts (5-16) is not saved with the system settings or stage setup. Also the part enable/disable is not saved. Am I missing something? To use in the studio, I need the px-5s to not respond on all midi channels (I have other instruments on those channels). It's not practical to go in and edit the system settings every time I turn it on. To effectively use parts 5-16 of the mixer there must be a way to save the assignments. Any suggestions?

[egw]

This is a pretty serious flaw. You can't properly integrate the px-5s into a studio with other midi devices. Also, what is the point of having the sound engine respond to channels 5-16, when you can't save the assignment of sounds to those channels? The only solution I can think of is to turn off midi input into the px-5s. That precludes using it with external sequencers or other midi controllers, or using any sounds other than on channels 1-4. I hope that this can eventually be fixed.

[Mike Martin]

It is not a flaw.  Parts 5-16 would typically be driven from another device such as a computer in your studio.  Almost any basic DAW can choose which channels to address, along with volume, pan, band and program change.   What MIDI devices are you using the PX-5S with?

[egw]

Of course it's a flaw. Pretty much every midi device I've encountered can be configured for which midi channels they will receive. The px-5s has this, but it isn't saved when turned off. That must be an oversight since it renders the feature useless. The channel enable function cannot be sent via midi from a DAW or any other midi source, it must be configured locally. The midi protocol is designed with channels so that multiple devices can listen to the same midi stream and respond to different channels. Even if the DAW sends program change, volume, etc. all devices listening to that channel will respond. In my studio I have many synthesizers but they all receive the same midi stream. Not just from the DAW but from keyboard controllers, step sequencers, arpeggiators, fader boxes etc. Since the px-5s responds on every channel I have to remove it from the midi stream.

 

I thought about populating channels 5-16 with a "dummy" tone, e.g. a drum sound with no instruments assigned. But this doesn't work because the px-5s does not save the assignment of tones to channels 5-16 and would require a DAW to send program change on setup to load these tones. That is not practical because all the other instruments would also receive program change messages on those channels. I could try to filter program change to everything else but that gets complicated. Furthermore I don't always use the DAW when I play and it's not reasonable to have to turn it on just to configure the sounds on the px-5s.

 

I hope this clarifies things. It really should be fixed in a firmware update. The channel enable and mixer part assignments should be saved with either the system settings or stage setup.

[Mike Martin]

The PX-5S has a dedicated USB MIDI port, you're not using it?

[egw]

I use the usb port for the editor only. Midi over usb would only work for connection to the DAW, all other gear in the studio uses midi cables.

[Mike Martin]

Can you explain what other gear you have and how you're using it?  Sorry just trying to get my head wrapped around your application so I can best explain your particular situation to the staff in Tokyo. 

[egw]

My setup is complex, so it may not be a good illustration, but I'll try to explain. Midi sources include keyboard controllers: px-5s, nord modular g2x (two), alesis andromeda; step sequencers: emu xl-7, nord modular g2x, laptop running plogue bidule; fader boxes: peavey pc1600x (two); ribbon controller: kurzweil expressionmate; drum pad: roland handsonic; pedals: roland pk-5. Some of them run through midi arpeggiators: oberheim cyclone, kurzweil expressionmate. All of the sources are merged together (midi solutions 8x1 and 4x1 mergers) then through a midi switch (sycologic m16) out to all of the destinations. Destinations are anything that can make sound: px-5s, nord modulars, andromeda, emu xl-7, proteus 2000, waldorf microwave xt, yamaha dx-200, laptop running soft synths; or the DAW for recording (pc running windows xp with reaper); or devices that can be edited via midi; also effects processors that can be controlled via midi (various). The advantage of a network like this is that any of the sources can control any of the destinations without the need for reconfiguration, or a single source can control multiple destinations for a layered sound, also everything can be recorded at the same time on a single midi interface to the DAW.

Here's a diagram: http://gregwaltzer.com/egw/equipment/files/midi.gif

Hope this helps! Thanks for taking the time to consider my situation.

[WMDkeys]

Was this ever addressed?  I am triggering the internal sounds in the Privia from a second keyboard.  I turned off the part in the system settings so that I can play the second keyboard standalone without triggering the Privia's internal sound.  It works great but I seem to loose the setting when I power down and have to make the change each time I repower up.

[Brad Saucier]

Nothing has changed about the PX-5s in the mixer section. You'll have to manually change the setting at each power up.  

[Choppin]

Hello,

 

There is a way to setup the mixer without having to adjust each track individually.  You can create a midi file hat has all the settings you want, have it stored on a flash drive, then play that midi file after boot-up.  There doesn't have to be any song information, just all of the configuration info you want.  Take a look at the following thread.  Pay particular attention to when there's talk about creating a midi file:

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/5796-help-integrating-korg-kronos-and-casio-px-5s/?hl=korg

 

The same basic idea can be applied if you set up a built in song or two using the Px-5s song sequrncer with the settings you want.  I say a song or two because the song sequencer only affects 8 tracks.  If you wanted to setup 12 or more, you'd have to use 2 songs playing each in sequence.  You shouldn't have to have phrase data included, but if you do, to be on the safe side, the phrase can be an empty 2 beat phrase or something.

 

Once you write a song to the keyboard, it is retained after powerdown, so once you start the px-5s back, you can play the song(s) and voila, your mixer is setup.

[WMDkeys]

Thanks Choppin.  What you suggest sounds similar to using a macro in Microsoft Word to set up a document.

 

I will give it a try.

[WMDkeys]

The suggestions on making this work have been helpful.  Specifically, I am using a Nord Electro 2 as a master to trigger the PX-5S as a slave.  Sometimes I want to just play the Electro without triggering the PX-5S. 

 

I recently updated the firmware to the most current.  One time when I powered up the rig I did not make the change to the mixer section discussed above and was going through the stage setups.  On 7-6 5Draw Organ something interesting happened.  When the Nord transmitted on midi channel 2 it did not trigger any sound in the PX-5S.  This particular stage setting has Z1 and Z2 enabled and the tone for Z2 shows Hex:  U:050.  If I edit and change the tone for Z2 than the Nord starts to trigger transmitting on Midi channel 2.   This does not happen with any other stage setup.

 

I was wondering if the more experienced programmers out there could dissect this stage setup and explain why the sound generator in the PX-5S doesn't appear to be receiving on channel 2.  This is a desired result for me and I would love to understand why in this stage setup it is achieved.

 

Thanks in advance. 

[Brad Saucier]

Are you sure your PX-5s in not making any sound on zone 2?    Zone 2 is organ click noise in this stage setting.  Very subtle sound.  

[WMDkeys]

Yes.  I just double checked.  I thought it might be an element like key click so I also tried manipulating all controllers and still can't generate any sound.  I also tried enabling the zone on the PX-5S and turning off Zone 1 and still don't hear anything.

[WMDkeys]

The craziest thing.  I just tried again and really jacked up the volume and manipulated the controllers and I hear the key click now.   Subtle like you said.

 

Since I use the Nord for organ sounds having the key click in there at a low volume is not necessarily a bad thing and may be a good alternative work around.  In a way it is like egw's "dummy tone" idea above.  Only the dummy tone could be useful when I am playing only organ on the Nord.

 

It would be great if they could address this in a firmware update if feasible.  It would make using the PX as a slave live a lot more straight forward without the need for workarounds.  I used to do this all the time when my bottom keyboard was a Fantom.  Just turn off the part as part of a Roland Performance.

 

Thanks again for your insight.

[Choppin]

It does seem a bit odd that there isn't a "part off" function for the receiving of midi info.  My suspicion is that the same midi engine/midi method is used to play internal sequenced songs, receive external midi input, and play midi files through the USB.  In order to make any or all of those options available at any given time without having to switch on and off settings for either of the three, a part disable function becomes impractical.

 

It becomes more reasonable to control the volume received or the decision to send midi information on a specific channel from the source.

 

For example, if one doesn't want sound coming from the Px-5s on channel 2, don't transmit on channel 2.  I tend to think that this is the logic behind the design.

[Brad Saucier]

Agreed.