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ctk 6000 recording/playback/dubbing


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#1 spider

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 03:25 PM

I'm new owner of ctk6000.  I can't figure out how to do the following:    I want to select a certain rhythm..play this rhythm and at the same time use the keyboard to add a certain base line  and this to be recorded.. thats step 1

  Next I want to play step 1 and while listening to that I want to play on the keyboard adding chords, and I want this to be recorded.  thats step 2.. Now when I play it back I want to hear the rhythm and the parts I've added.  Surely something this simple can be done.  Help.

 

 


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#2 Jared Beaney

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:09 AM

The Song Sequencer is where you will be able to do all of this.

Press the Song Sequencer button, use the cursor arrows to choose which track you want to record to, choose your tone, press record and off you go.

Repeat to keep adding tracks.

 

Note however to record an in-built rhythm this needs to be recorded on the "system track" - you get to the system track be pressing the left arrow to move the cursor arrow on the screen past track 1, until all the arrows light up. 

 

This might help you get started:

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_pgqux527BY


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Jared Beaney
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#3 spider

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:29 PM

Thanks very much for your prompt reply..   Spider


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#4 spider

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 03:40 PM

Mr. Beaney helped me with this the other day.  However; I still have a spot of bother.  I can now (using the keyboard) record parts and dub in parts --this is great.  But I still cannot record a rhythm.  I can select and play the chosen rhythm-but I can't record it.  Please help me again.  Thanks   Spider



#5 Jared Beaney

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Posted 23 August 2013 - 09:57 PM

You can only record a rhythm/accompaniment on the 'system track'. I think you may have to do this part first as well, before adding other tracks.

Access the system track by moving the cursor all the way to the left, past track 1, until all the track arrows light up.
You're now on the system track.
Choose your rhythm, arm to record, but use the Intro/Normal/Variation buttons to start the rhythm, as the Start/Stop button will engage the recording, but not the rhythm.
You can also set a Sync start and play your first chord to engage the rhythm, recording and accompaniment all at once.
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#6 spider

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:24 PM

Thanks for this latest info on recording the "rhythm".  I am able to do it.    Spider



#7 spider

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:55 PM

You might say that "Casio has given me a rose, and now I'm asking for a bouquet".  Seriously-is fantastic piece of equipment at a very reasonable price-LOVE IT.  However; here's my question.  Re: the audio input--Can I record what is being input (example elec guitar)?      Thanks again   Spider



#8 tnicoson

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:25 PM

Spider

 

Sorry, but no !  The Audio-In only allows you to use the keyboard's amplifier and speakers as a sort of "PA System" for your MP3 player, CD player, etc, but it does not allow you to record.  The same applies to the Mic-In on the WK-6500, even though it does process the mic signal through the keyboard's effects processor, it does not allow you to record the mic signal.  Also, neither the CTK-6000 or the WK-6500 will play back an audio file (MP3, WAV, etc) from the SD Card.  You would need to move up to the CTK-7000/WK-7500 to get these audio features, although not even those units will record from the Audio-In jack.  Casio is not going to allow you to use their equipment to record copyrighted materials !  If you are really interested in recording, but not ready to move up in keyboards yet, there are any number of reasonably priced digital recorders that record directly to SD Card or USB flash drive.  You could then play that back through the CTK-6000's Audio-In jack, but you could not use Audio-In to monitor what you are recording as it would cause an audio feedback loop.  You would need to use headphones for monitoring while you are recording.

 

Good luck !


Regards,

 

Ted

 

------------------------------

 

CTK-6000 / CTK-7000

WK-225 / WK-3800 / WK-7500

XW-P1


#9 spider

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:49 PM

Ted,  Thanks for the answer.  I was 99% sure that would be the answer -but hey - I'm told the only stupid question is the unasked question.  For what it's worth: I've previously been using an old 1980's Casio MT-210.  Pretty amazing the stuff I could get out of it by coming out of the keyboard into other amplifiers and tweaking the sound and recording & dubbing using modified analog cassette decks.     Thanks again to Ted & Beaney.  I've got my answers for now - but will no doubt have other questions when I start using the editing functions.   Spider



#10 spider

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 02:34 PM

I've got mmore questions.   #1 Re: Memory...Certain processes I've tried to initiate are denied due to "insufficient memory".  I have only 2 User Songs installed.  They each have 49% use.   Is there any way I can free up some memory?     Can I buy add'l memory?        #2 I'm unable to use Card..It's a new SDHC - 8 GB...When I try to format it - it begins the proces-the screen says "please wait"..The bar graph thingy is gobbled up..but the "Complete" never appears.      ...#3 I went ahead and tried to save a User Song to the Card.  Screen says "No File".      ... Can anyone advise?   THANKS



#11 tnicoson

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 08:01 PM

Spider

 

NO !  You can not add additional INTERNAL memory to the Casio CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX keyboards, and the SD Card will not help you with that when it comes to recording songs, as the save is automatically done to INTERNAL memory.  You can not redirect this save to the SD Card, and if there is insufficient INTERNAL memory the save can not be made, and you get the 'Insufficient memory" message.  The 6XXX's only have memory for 5 songs and a TOTAL of 12,000 notes.  That's an average of only 2,400 notes per song.  Compare this to the 7XXX's which store 5 songs with a TOTAL of 30,000 notes for an average of 6,000 notes per song.  When I recall simple MOTL ROMplers (not arrangers) of 10 or 15 years ago that came with memory to hold 50 to 60 thousand notes, I guess it is conceivable that the 6XXX's could run shy of memory after a couple of really "busy" songs.  I suppose it is best to view the INTERNAL memory as pretty much "temporary" and just move data back and forth between it and the SD Card as needed.

 

As for your SD Card problem.  I am a bit suspicious of your new 8Gb card.  The best way to tell very quickly is switch to another card - say an old 2Gb card' and see if the keyboard is able to format it.  If it can, then there is most likely a problem with your new card.  If it can not, then you probably need to do a factory reset initialize on the keyboard.  I had a similar problem with my 6000 a week or so ago.  You will need to back up your data before you do the reset, and you will have to do it to your PC via the USB cable and the Data Manager software, because at this stage you probably can not do anything reliably with the SD Card.  After the reset, format the new SD Card in the keyboard.  With my old WK-3800, I could format the SD Card in my PC, manually create a MUSICDAT folder on it, and everything was fine, but the CTK-6000 seems to be very picky about that, so I just format the cards in the keyboard and everything works fine.  By the way, the problem that necessitated my reset was a third party MIDI file with a sysex message that the keyboard didn't like.  It pretty well screwed everything up.

 

My other concern about your card is that some years ago in the days of the 1 and 2 Gb cards, SanDisk and a few others starting putting that U3 Launcher program on the cards and most keyboards just could not use it, and formatting the card in a PC or the keyboard would not get rid of it, because it was in a separate partition that MS-DOS could not get to.  You had to download and run a special program to get rid of it.  The U3 program was abandoned at least 3 or 4 years ago, but I have recently seen on other forums and from emails that PNY and some other manufacturers are putting proprietary file manager programs on their SD and USB storage media that do not work with some keyboards, but at this point, none of us seems to have any info on this.  The solution has been to return the card and exchange it for a different brand.

 

Good luck !


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Regards,

 

Ted

 

------------------------------

 

CTK-6000 / CTK-7000

WK-225 / WK-3800 / WK-7500

XW-P1


#12 spider

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:52 PM

Ted,  Thanks for your response.  I'll try a new card.    Spider



#13 spider

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:41 PM

Ted,

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.  With your help I was able to get squared away with the "Card" situation.  Actually there was a lot of operator error.  (Did I mention I'm 72?).

Re:  Formatting -  I had said that the process would appear to begin- but that "Complete" would never appear.  This is my misconception.  What really was happening was - the process would begin and unnoticed by me; the screen WOULD display "Complete".  However; this "Complete" stays on the screen for only seconds - then its gone.  Obviously on my previous attempts I missed this. 

Re: Loading a song onto the Card - Next in my series of errors - was when I would try to load a song onto the Card - the screen would display "No File".  I misinterpreted this to mean "dead end".  (Did mention 72?).  Now I realize I quit too soon.

Re: The type of Cards - I now have 2.  Both work.  One is a Sony SF-8NX  8GB - Other is Sandisk SDHC 4 GB.

Re: Memory being absorbed by 2 three minute songs - I guess they were pretty busy.  I had a Drum Set & Base Line on the Systems side.  On the individual tracks I had a single note guitar track  -  4 note chord guitar chords - 4 note organ chords - an added drum lick.  I suspect what added most to the memory consumption was that I did a "Extract " to bring the bass & Drums over to the individual tracks.   Then because I had been having trouble loosing a track and having to re-do it - I made a copy of the song to hold in reserve. 

NOW That I'm able to keep a back up copy on the Card; I think it will all work fine.  I'm happy.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Spider



#14 tnicoson

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:38 PM

Hey Spider

 

Glad you got all that sorted out so that now you can just sit back and enjoy, but don't slow down, buddy.  I'm right behind you and would hate to walk on your heels.  -  I celebrated my 70th the first part of September, so I know what you mean when you talk about those "senior moments".

 

Best of luck with your endeavors and will be looking forward to hearing more from you.


Regards,

 

Ted

 

------------------------------

 

CTK-6000 / CTK-7000

WK-225 / WK-3800 / WK-7500

XW-P1


#15 spider

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 02:37 PM

I am progressing, but I've still got a question.

I can Save a User Song to the Card.  Now I delete the User Song from the Keyboard.  I put the card back into the slot.  I can play the song & even use the Mixer to adjust the volumns of the individual tracks.  But, I'm not able to re-install the data back into a User Song, so that I can continue to modify it.

  The question is: Does the Keyboard have the capability of allowing me to re-install this Data as a User Song?  Can you tell me how to do this?

 

Actually I've got a second question.  When I play this card in my computer  (windows) the Drums do not play.  (the systems track has been "extracted"-so I don't think thats the reason)  (also I've tested this with 2 songs).

 

I guess that before long my questions will be in the category with the old joke...The tourist to the native New Yorker .."Hey buddy, can you tell me where the Empire State building is, or should I just go _____ myself?

 

Spider



#16 tnicoson

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 07:34 PM

Hi Spidie - couldn't think of a more fitting fellow to be conversing with on this dark, dreary, blustery, rainy Halloween night unless you went by the title of "Count" !

 

OK !  When you go to load a SONG ( .CMS ) file from the card back into the keyboard's USER memory, DO NOT use the CARD mode by pressing the CARD button alone.  That is strictly for playing Standard MIDI Files ( SMF ) that have a .MID file extension, and that is all the keyboard will show in that mode.  Instead, to load a SONG file, you have to enter SONG SEQUENCER mode by pressing the SONG SEQUENCER button and then pressing AND HOLDING the FUNCTION button as you press the CARD button for LOAD/SAVE.  Then use the UP/DOWN cursor buttons to select the "Seq Load" function, if it is not already selected.  If you have more than one song on the card, use the jog wheel to select the desired song and the display will show you which memory slot it is going to load it into.  If you have something else in that slot, make sure you have already saved it to the card before you overwrite it with the song you are currently loading.  Press ENTER, then YES, and you should be all set.  Let me know if you still have problems with this.  The SAVE/LOAD functions on these keyboards seem to be a lot more convoluted than they need to be.

 

 

NOW . . . For your next question . . . I do not have an exact answer for you, but we will have to really dig into the meat of things with the sequencer so that, maybe, you can figure out on your on what happened to your drum track.  I covered all this either on another forum or somewhere else on this forum, but I can no longer find it, so will have to redo it here.  To understand what Casio is doing with its SONG SEQUENCER, we have to talk a bit first about the two types of MIDI files, as Casio has applied that same idea to its sequencer.  When we talk about INTERNAL MIDI data, that is MIDI data while it is still INSIDE the keyboard, or sequencer, or sound module, we talk about it being divided up or assigned to TRACKS.  While most PC DAW's now have an unlimited number of tracks, most hardware or keyboard sequencers are limited to 16 tracks.  Some years ago, Roland's JV-1000 flagship ROMpler touted a 32 track sequencer, but it was actually just two 16 track sequencers in the same keyboard.  BUT . . . now . . . when we talk about MIDI data when it is BETWEEN devices, that is when it is in the connecting cable(s), we refer to it being divided up or assigned to CHANNELS.  Usually it goes on a one-for-one basis (Track 1 - to - Channel 1 - to - Track 1), but that is not required.  With your hardware and DAW set ups, you can mix them up anyway you want, say . . . Track 2 - to - Channel 5 - to Track 7, or what ever you like.  So, once again, TRACKS carry MIDI data WITHIN the devices, while CHANNELS carry MIDI data between devices, and that now brings us to the two different types of MIDI files.  A TYPE-1 MIDI file has its data spread across 16 CHANNELS - one TRACK PER CHANNEL, while a TYPE-0 MIDI file has ALL 16 TRACKS ON A SINGLE CHANNEL.  A TYPE-0 MIDI player is able to split the data back into individual tracks and play them.  So . . . now . . . along comes Casio.  The CTK/WK-6XXX units hype a 16 track plus system track sequencer, while the CTK/WK-7XXX units tout a 17 track sequencer.  Why Casio makes the distinction, I have no idea  -  THEY'RE THE SAME SEQUENCER IN BOTH MODEL LINES, but a peek in the manual will reveal an even deeper mystery.  The manual shows that there are 16 "A" TRACKS and 16 "B" TRACKS.  The "A" tracks are reserved strictly for INTERNAL use - for when you play the keybed, or for the auto accompaniment, or when the SONG SEQUENCER plays a User Song, while the "B" TRACKS are connected to the USB MIDI port for use by an external sequencer, or by the internal MIDI file player.  So, the keyboard treats its own MIDI file player as an external device.  That's why the difference in the way it handles loads/saves of song (CMS) files vs MIDI (MID) files.  The "B" tracks can also be accessed (played) from the keybed when they are selected in the SONG SEQUENCER for a single track recording.  So how do we accommodate all these extra tracks ?  The "B" tracks are handled as 16 discrete tracks, just as you would suspect, but the sequencer handles the SYSTEM TRACK (TRACK 17) as though it were a TYPE-0 MIDI file.  The SYSTEM TRACK (TRACK 17) "CONTAINS" the 16 "A" TRACKS.  That is why you have to do an EXTRACT in order to edit them.  The EDITOR can only handle 16 discrete tracks, not a composite that contains all 16 tracks.  When you do an EXTRACT, the "A" tracks are fanned out and copied into the discrete "B" tracks so the editor can handle them.  Actually, the EXTRACT function only copies TRACKS 4 thru 7 and 9 thru 16, as those are the only tracks involved in a QUICK RECORD.  This is really neat.  Where Roland had to completely duplicate their hardware to handle 32 tracks, Casio did the same thing with only one piece of hardware and only 17 discrete tracks.

 

Basically these Casio units are just glorified General MIDI (GM) keyboards, and the GM standard requires that the drums be on TRACK 10.  I had assumed that when you did your EXTRACT, that the drum data got switched to another track, so I created a song file and converted it to SMF (.MID) both before and after extraction and then ported them to Sonar, but to my surprise, the drums were on TRACK 10 in both files.  So, if your drums ended up on the wrong track, it is not because of any "default" action of the EXTRACT process.  You may want to check with your DAW to see if the drum track got switched (and change it back to TRACK 10), or if it just got lost completely.

 

One interesting note - the SMF I made before extraction had glitches that would cause Sonar, and Cubase, and Power Tracks, all to "stumble" in 5 or 6 places, so I tried several more files and got the same thing, but the files I converted to SMF AFTER extraction all ran fine without a single glitch.  So apparently a direct SMF conversion of a raw CMS file without extraction contains some kind of control data that DAW's do not like.

 

That's all for this time.

 

Good luck !


Regards,

 

Ted

 

------------------------------

 

CTK-6000 / CTK-7000

WK-225 / WK-3800 / WK-7500

XW-P1


#17 spider

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:52 PM

Wow Ted,

 

Thanks

The first question was 99% of what I had to have.  As long as I know that its possible to import & export a  song to & from a "user song" on the keyboard; that's the main thing.  I'll work on that. 

 

Spider



#18 tnicoson

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 11:52 PM

Spider

 

I may have found the answer to your most recent drum track question.  There is a note at the bottom of the left hand column of Page 105 of the manual that says, essentially, that when you save a song, any data recorded in a "B" Track will cause data in the same numbered "A" Track to NOT BE SAVED.  So if you are recording a drum rhythm part into Track A-10, and then inadvertently record something into Track B-10, everything will work fine and sound OK as long as it is still "live" in the sequencer, but as soon as you save the song, the presence of data in Track B-10 will keep Track A-10 (your drum track) from getting saved.  So check the song you are having a problem with and see if you have anything recorded to Track B-10.  Keep in mind that the problem does not show up until the song is SAVED.  I guess in that respect, the Roland idea was a little better.  Its two sequencers were entirely separate and unrelated, and other than exceeding the overall polyphony limit of the sound engine, what you did on one had no effect on what you did on the other.  Here the two sets of tracks are, by their design, somewhat inter-related, so when you are doing something in one set ("B") you have to keep in mind what you have recorded in the other set ("A").  If this gets to be a real issue, you could always go into the Mixer and turn B-10 OFF while you are recording and saving, but you would not want to forget to turn it back ON when you are finished or nothing else will work through it.  This way, if you did inadvertently record something to B-10, it would not affect A-10, and you would know it immediately because you would not be able to hear whatever you recorded to it.

 

I used to have a saying about the design of the JV-1000, since it had two 16 track sequencers instead of a single sequencer with 32 contiguous tracks, that it had a 32 track sequencer "kind of side-ways sort of".  I guess that applies even more here.

 

Hope this helps !


Regards,

 

Ted

 

------------------------------

 

CTK-6000 / CTK-7000

WK-225 / WK-3800 / WK-7500

XW-P1


#19 spider

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:06 PM

Ted,

 

Thanks again for sharing your amazing bank of knowledge.  I'll let you know how its going as I plod along.

 

Spider



#20 spider

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 05:33 PM

Ted,

 

Well, you've made my day..I'm now able to move a song to & from the Keyboard using a card - select the User Song # onto which I load the data from the Card--Heck, I'm King of the Hill. 

 

I think the stumbling block was that I didn't commprehend that the Data being loaded onto the Card should be CMS (first of all I didn't know what CMS was-I had however heard of MIDI) -if I wanted to bring it back to the Keyboard as a User Song.  I was trying to follow the 8 steps instruction on pages 104 & 105 & I still don't see where in those instructions it tells me to choose the CMS... YOUR first sentence told me CMS--then I got it.

 

Re: The missing Drums when I played a MIDI file thru MUSICDAT on the computer...I did some experimenting.  On the KB I copied the drum track (10) onto track 8 & deleted track 10. I loaded this onto a new Card.  Put in into computer and Drums still didn't sound. 

 

Anyway; at this present time I'm not needing to work with the computer.  I would in in the future like to be able to burn a CD-so I would of course like to solve this problem eventually.         Spider






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