How to set Sliders 1-4 to control Volume of Zones 1-4

[PianoManChuck]

This tutorial will show you how to set up Sliders 1-4 such that they control the individual volumes of Zones 1-4 on the fly:

 

   http://youtu.be/wOLVGnkcLro

 

[jaspeter]

Most excellent!  I just ran into this the other day.  It took awhile to realize that CC07:Volume wasn't going to work.  I finally figured it out, but seeing this first would have made it a piece of cake!  Thanks!

[Mike Martin]

There are definitely instances where you will want to use CC#07 instead of CC#11.  

This was already done as a downloadable template:
http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/files/file/53-4-zones-4-sliders/

[Dshoff]

Chuck, I should mention that it sounds really complicated at first but once you get the hang of it, it is easy even for me.  One question: why do you use #11 expression instead of #7 volume?  Do they do different things?

 

David

[Dshoff]

Oh, I forgot to mention, GREAT video!

 

David

[PianoManChuck]

There are definitely instances where you will want to use CC#07 instead of CC#11.  

This was already done as a downloadable template:

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/files/file/53-4-zones-4-sliders/

Thanks... saves me from uploading one!!!  You're way on top of things, as usual.

[PianoManChuck]

If anyone is interested, I put together a step-by-step instruction guide on how to accomplish this.  In many ways, having it all written down and laid out in front of you makes it easier to understand what's going on (rather than just following cookbook instructions):

 

CASIO PRIVIA PX-5S

 

Assign Sliders 1 - 4 to control Zone 1 - 4 volume

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

1. Select the Stage Setting you want to work with (ie: BANK XX).

 

2. Press EDIT

       a - Select "Stage Setting" (press Enter)

       b - Scroll down to pg 2, select "Common Edit"

       c - Scroll down to pg 4, select "Slider1 Edit"

         d - Hold "-/No" key until "CC11: Express" appears

         e - Press Exit

         f - Repeat steps c thru f for Slider2, Slider3 & Slider4

      g - Press Exit 3 times, to get back to the !X-X display

 

3. Press WRITE

    a - Select "Stage Setting" (press Enter)

    b - Press Enter again (in response to "Press Enter" prompt)

    c - Press "+/Yes" in response to "Replace? No/Yes"

 

You have now defined & saved what Sliders 1 thru 4 will control (MIDI CC # 11, which is "expression") - in this case, Volume.

 

In the next sequence of steps, we'll define which controller controls which zone's volume by turning Slider1 "on" for Volume1 for Zone1..... Slider 2 "on" for Volume 2 on Zone2, etc.

 

4. Press EDIT

    a - Select "Stage Setting" (press Enter)

    b - Select "Zone Edit"

    c - Scroll down to, and Select "Controller Edit"

 

      d - Scroll down to pg 2, select "Slider1 Enable"

          e - Use "-/No" & "+/Yes" keys to select "On"

       f  - Scroll and change settings to "Off" for Sliders 2 thru 4.

    g - Press (Step/Track +) to the left of screen to select Zone 2

         (Z2 should appear on 1st line of screen display).

    h - using the methods above, change the settings for Slider1        

         thru Slider4 of each of Zones 1 thru 4 so that they match the       

         following values:

 

        Z1:

           Slider1 Enable = ON

           Slider2 Enable = OFF

           Slider3 Enable = OFF

           Slider4 Enable = OFF

 

        Z2:

           Slider1 Enable = OFF

           Slider2 Enable = ON

           Slider3 Enable = OFF

           Slider4 Enable = OFF

 

        Z3:

           Slider1 Enable = OFF

           Slider2 Enable = OFF

           Slider3 Enable = ON

           Slider4 Enable = OFF

 

        Z4:

           Slider1 Enable = OFF

           Slider2 Enable = OFF

           Slider3 Enable = OFF

           Slider4 Enable = ON

 

5. Press WRITE

    a. Press Enter

    b. Press "+/Yes" in response to "Replace? No/Yes"

 

Finished! 

 

From now on, using the Stage Setting of XX (whatever stage setting you were editing above) will now be set to have Sliders1 thru 4 control the individual volumes of the instruments (tones) set for Zones Z1 thru Z4:

 

    Slider 1 will control volume for Zone 1

    Slider 2 will control volume for Zone 2

    Slider 3 will control volume for Zone 3

    Slider 4 will control volume for Zone 4

 

NOTE:

When selecting Stage Setting XX, its a good idea to start with Sliders1 thru 4 at the very bottom (Zero setting)... this resets the sliders to ensure that the bottom position is zero.

[Dshoff]

when is it a good time to use #7volume, and when for #11expression?

 

David 

[PianoManChuck]

when is it a good time to use #7volume, and when for #11expression?

 

David 

Maybe someone else could chime in on this... but cc07 is Volume and is normally thought of as 'master volume'.  cc11 is expression, which does pretty much the same thing, but is normally used by a single instrument (you'll see "expression pedals" in use by various instrumentalists - guitarists, organists, even some keyboard players).  Some people liked to use cc11 as sort of a 'fine tuning' to the master volume.  Lots of differing explanations out there. 

Can't go wrong with this example: If you're familiar with a mixing console, the individual sliders could be thought of as cc11, while master volume would be cc07.

[Dshoff]

When I set up my piano/strings setting, I used #7 volume and it worked on the individual parts just fine.  That's why I asked.  

 

David

[Mike Martin]

No need to press and hold the "-" minus button.  When editing Knob2 is always parameter entry.  Just a quick turn of the knob gets you there.  Knob1 scrolls you up and down through the list of parameters.

[Mike Martin]

when is it a good time to use #7volume, and when for #11expression?

 

David 

 

Take for example the following scenario:

Zone 1 Piano

Zone 2 Strings

In the zone settings for each of these two sounds you can set the Volume for each of these so they have a nice balance.  Perhaps it is:

Zone 1 Piano - Volume 127

Zone 2 Strings - Volume 100

This way the strings sit slightly behind the piano in the mix.  

 

If you set the sliders to Expression to control them, the strings can never exceed the volume of 100.  If you used volume instead of expression it is possible that the strings would go beyond the maximum "volume" you set and would be too loud compared to the piano.  So the zones keep their relative mix when you use expression.  

In another scenario you may want your Stage Setting to start with the Volume of some sounds set to 0 then you use the sliders to bring those in at a later point in the performance.   This is about the only scenario where I'd recommend using Volume instead of Expression.

[PianoManChuck]

Yes, K1 & K2 are shortcuts and K2 gets you through the parm list much, much faster.  Personally, I don't want to move the K1-K4 knobs because I visually rely on the knobs physical pointers to show me where on the physical dial I'm at for EQ.  If I use K2 to change a parameter entry somewhere, the knob doesn't "snap back" to the physical position it was in for EQ with the knob's pointer showing me where on the physical dial I'm at (even though its doesn't change the EQ setting, it physically changes the position on the dial its pointing to). 

 

This brings up a great suggestion for a future model... rather than use physical pointers embedded onto the knob itself, use LED's (in a circular fashion) to show where within the physical dial you're at for EQ (or volume, or anything else with a knob)... have those "snap back" to show the position that knob is in for ANY setting when you choose that setting.

[PianoManChuck]

Take for example the following scenario:

Zone 1 Piano

Zone 2 Strings

In the zone settings for each of these two sounds you can set the Volume for each of these so they have a nice balance.  Perhaps it is:

Zone 1 Piano - Volume 127

Zone 2 Strings - Volume 100

This way the strings sit slightly behind the piano in the mix.  

 

If you set the sliders to Expression to control them, the strings can never exceed the volume of 100.  If you used volume instead of expression it is possible that the strings would go beyond the maximum "volume" you set and would be too loud compared to the piano.  So the zones keep their relative mix when you use expression.  

In another scenario you may want your Stage Setting to start with the Volume of some sounds set to 0 then you use the sliders to bring those in at a later point in the performance.   This is about the only scenario where I'd recommend using Volume instead of Expression.

Excellent explanation and examples!

[jaspeter]

When I set up my piano/strings setting, I used #7 volume and it worked on the individual parts just fine.  That's why I asked.  

 

David

 

Maybe it was just the particular combination of voices I was using, but I had the problem of CC07 controlling the volume of the entire mix in all zones, as PianoManChuck mentioned.  I'd be interested in knowing why as well, but as long as CC11 works, I'm happy from a practical standpoint.  I'll have to look at it again with what Mike said in mind.

[Trumpeter]

Using volume to bring in a zone allows you to set an initial value of zero, but the problem is that even at volume zero you can still faintly hear the instrument on the zone. So zero isn't really zero. This is noticeable if you are playing a single note rather than a chord and the two zones are an octave apart of have very different tones.

 

Using expression to bring in a zone means you have to move the sliders up and back to zero after selecting the stage setting, since expression is set to 127 by default, meaning all zones will sound unless you first move the sliders. Maybe there is a way of setting initial expression zero for a zone, but I haven't found it.

[Brad Saucier]

19 minutes ago, Trumpeter said:

Using volume to bring in a zone allows you to set an initial value of zero, but the problem is that even at volume zero you can still faintly hear the instrument on the zone.

 

Check your knob/slider settings, min and max values.  Make sure minimum is set to zero.  I don't know of any other reason you would still be hearing sound other than the zone is not truly set to zero volume. 

[Trumpeter]

Here are screen shots of the Zone and Common settings. After selecting the stage setting I hear zone 1 at correct volume but with zone 2 faintly in the background. If I move both sliders up and then down to zero I hear nothing. If I then put zone one back to the max I faintly hear zone 2 as well. 

[Brad Saucier]

Okay, double check zone two volume upon recalling the stage setting.  Press edit, stage setting, zone edit, mixer edit, page over to page 3, check the volume reading listed here.  Is it zero?  

[Trumpeter]

Yes, the value is zero.

 

On that screen, if I move the slider up I see the volume go to 127 and I hear Zone 1 at steady volume while Zone 2 gets louder, which is expected. When I set the slider back down I see the volume go to 000 and I hear Zone 1 with a faint Zone 2 under it. If I put both sliders to zero I get silence.

 

This is not Zone 2 specific. If set the volume of Zone 1 to zero and Zone 2 to 127 I still hear a faint Zone 1 under Zone 2. I guess it is a firmware issue on the PX5S. I am running version 1.13.

[Brad Saucier]

Can you post a video of this?  It's very difficult to understand exactly what you're experiencing through words alone.  I've never experienced any issues with zones faintly sounding, nor have I ever heard of anyone else having that issue, since 2013 when the PX-5S was released.  

[Trumpeter]

Here's the video.....

 

It only seems to happen with two piano sounds. I wonder if it's some sort of resonance effect that is doing it. If I set tone 2 to be an organ there is no problem. I am using two piano sounds so that I can switch octave doubling on or off for certain passages.

 

 

[Trumpeter]

Yes, it is resonance. If I switch off resonance for zone 2 then it goes away. Looks like when I have two pianos and both have resonance then zone 2 is never completely silent, even at zero volume.

[Brad Saucier]

I'm glad you found the issue.  

[Trumpeter]

Thanks for looking at this with me - your questions pointed me in the right direction. I appreciate you taking the time.