leefentress Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I had a Yamaha P-140 that had a piano + strings patch that I grew accustomed to that I'm trying to recreate. The strings would gently fade in behind the piano, and if you were holding the sustain pedal (but released your fingers from the keys) the strings would gracefully fade out (quicker than than the decay of the piano). If you held the keys down with your fingers, the strings would continue to sustain for as long as you held the keys down (versus fading out like when using the sustain pedal). I've managed to figure out how to set the attack to fade in on my PX-5S, but I can't figure out how to set them to fade out when sustaining with a sustain pedal while remaining full volume for as long as keys are held down. Anybody have any ideas how to achieve it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Turn off the sustain pedal for the strings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefentress Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 That would be closer to the effect I think. But the problem is... I still do want the sustain pedal to in fact sustain the strings longer -- or increase their decay or release time (not sure which it's supposed to be) -- I just don't want it to sustain them by making them hold at full volume forever. I want them to gradually fade out when the sustain pedal is being held down and, importantly, when the keys are released. But when the keys are held down, I want them to sound continually at full volume for as long as the keys are actually pressed and held. Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Does that make sense? Ummmm....... No. Not entirely. A picture of the sound would help. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I'll work on a stage setting that I think is what you are describing and upload it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Same here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Well... Here's my version. The release times may need to be shortened. I don't know what I'm doing. http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/files/file/182-pedal-pianostrings/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefentress Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 Well... Here's my version. The release times may need to be shortened. I don't know what I'm doing. http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/files/file/182-pedal-pianostrings/ Sweet, thanks! Can't wait to get home to try it out. I read your description you posted with the file. It looks similar to what I'm trying to describe. Later today I may try to record something from my old Yamaha P-140, and draw a picture of what I'm talking about, too. That should clear up any confusion. Same here.... You going to make a stage setup, too? You guys rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I think Mike may not post one now that I have. IDK. Maybe he'll surprise us. An audio demo of your Yamaha would be immensely helpful. And I'd love to see the drawing of it. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefentress Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 Haha. Yeah, I can't draw as well as I used to. We'll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Martin Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Based on the way you're describing it, I would imagine that the P-140 has the pedal assigned to modulate the Sustain Level. When the pedal is used, the sustain level drops down. When the pedal is not the sustain level stays the same. Sustain level is not a parameter the PX-5S can modulate in real-time. There may be some tricks to simulate this....still trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefentress Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 Based on the way you're describing it, I would imagine that the P-140 has the pedal assigned to modulate the Sustain Level. When the pedal is used, the sustain level drops down. When the pedal is not the sustain level stays the same. Sustain level is not a parameter the PX-5S can modulate in real-time. There may be some tricks to simulate this....still trying. On the P-140, if the pedal were set to modulate sustain level, making the sustain level drop down when the pedal is used, this is what I'm imagine the effect would be: The strings would always fade out when the sustain pedal is held down. However, on the P-140, when the pedal is held down, the strings only fade out if the keys aren't being held down. On the other hand, if you're holding the pedal down and also holding the keys down at the same time, the strings don't fade out, but continue to sound a full volume. Let me see if I can kind of list out the various scenarios and the corresponding effects. In all of these scenarios, one thing remains the same, the strings always have a gentle attack that causes them to swell in gracefully behind the piano. Scenario 1 Pedal inactive. C chord is held for 4 bars. Effect 1 The piano dies out and the strings continue to sound. Scenario 2 Pedal is active. C chord is held for 4 bars. Effect 2 The piano dies out and the strings continue to sound. Scenario 3 Pedal is inactive. C chord is played for one sixteenth note. Effect 3 You hear the attack of the piano, and don't notice the strings. Scenario 4 Pedal is active. C chord is played for one sixteenth note (and sustained by the pedal). Effect 4 The strings and the piano both gradually die out as they ride the sustain, though the strings die out more quickly than the piano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 Lee, thanks to you I have created 14 useless stage settings and I'm pretty sure I need psycho therapy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefentress Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 I had no idea this would be such a brain blender. I should have a video made within a couple hours or so. I figure that will be easier than drawing a picture. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leefentress Posted September 25, 2013 Author Share Posted September 25, 2013 Alright, here's the video. Notice how in the second half of the video, I never take my foot off the pedal, it stays sustained the entire time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshoff Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 I uploaded my piano strings setting under piano}str.zpf. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshoff Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Brad, how do you make the volume change when you lift the keys and keep the sustain pedal down? That would be something to play with! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 David, Are you referring to what Lee is asking for or something I did in one of my stage settings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshoff Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Brad, you got your strings to drop volume when you lifted your hands off the keys and kept the sustain pedal down. How did you do that? David 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 It's not that difficult. I have two strings zones. Each is set to a different volume level. The sustain pedal is turned off for the louder string zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Saucier Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Here's the latest version of my piano strings. http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/files/file/185-pedal-pianostrings-alternate-ver-2/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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