Loaded Stage Setting Tone not held after power down

[Choppin]

Hello,

 

I've been searching through this forum but didn't see this issue directly talked about.  It may not be an issue - it may be me doing something wrong.  My firmware version is v1.11 .

 

I've saved stage setting 3-1 in it's default state (Modern EP) onto the USB drive.

I then changed the tone on 3-1 to GrPnoConcert [00]

I write the stage setting to 3-1 with the grand piano sound.

 

I load the original stage setting back into the Px-5s at 3-1 from the USB drive.

 

Playing on the keyboard, the electric piano tone has replaced the grand piano.  I switch banks and stage settings and come back to 3-1 and it still is playing the electric piano sound as expected after having loaded the stage setting back in.  Everything seems to be working fine.

 

I power off the keyboard.  I turn it back on. 

Select stage setting 3-1 and it is no longer playing the electric piano sound, it is playing the grand piano sound.

 

My assumptions were that loading in a stage setting would replace the settings of the stage setting at the particular bank and slot.  It doesn't seem to keep the tone once the device is powered off.

 

Am I missing a step in loading the stage setting somewhere?  Why would it work initially and allow me to jump to other patches and come back, but when I turn the power off, it reverts to the last tone I wrote to that stage setting spot?

 

Thank you

[Knuckles]

Hi Choppin,

I was very interested to read your post as I had a similar experience several weeks ago. I accidentally loaded a stage setting into 0-0 and therefore lost my beloved grand piano. I reloaded the grand piano, but as soon as I turned the keyboard off, it reverted to the other, unwanted stage setting. This happened several times before I realised what was going on (kept thinking that I was somehow inadvertently doing something wrong....).

The fix which was suggested to me was to connect the keyboard to the data editor and completely delete the stage setting (so that the slot is empty). I can't remember how to do this off the top of my head, but I can find out for you if you need me to. Having totally emptied the slot, when I reintroduced the grand piano it worked fine and has done ever since.

I never found out why it had done that and wondered if version 1.11 would have fixed it. Clearly it has not, so I hope that some of the experts on this forum might be able to shed some more light on the matter. Please let us know how you get on with this.

[Mike Martin]

Sorry guys this is very unusual.    If it occurs again, please let me know and please document any steps which duplicate the situation.  I'll put the follow option on this thread. 

[jaspeter]

Fascinating...  This just happened me today, with a whole setlist!  After I installed the firmware update, I saved the factory settings to the USB drive using Save - All Data.  I then loaded my other presets in for two gigs and saved those off in two separate "All Data" files.  Today, I reloaded the factory settings.  I turned the PX-5S off for awhile and when I came back to it and started it up again, the stage settings for the gig were back!

I should also add that when I loaded the factory All Data file, the stage setting that was displayed had a "!" in front of it.  When I switched stage settings and switched back, however, it turned into a "*".

[Choppin]

From the manual, the ! symbol means that there has been a change that hasn't been committed to memory.  The * means the change has been registered.  It's a little confusing on that point because many of the tones within the stage setting have the ! next to them.  I don't imagine that means they are all unsaved data...

 

I have a * for the stage setting name and a ! for the tone . 

 

The procedure I used was:

 

1. Saved 3-1 as a stage setting using the front panel to the USB drive

2. Changed the tone under 3-1 using the Piano tone group and the +- to make it 00

3. Used Write to commit the changes to 3-1

4. Played the keyboard with the new tone - working fine.

 

5. Loaded the saved stage setting from the USB drive using the front panel into 3-1

6. The name has the * , the tone name has the !

7. Play the keyboard and the proper sound that was loaded plays.

   7a Switch to different stage settings in different banks

   7b Come back to 3-1

8. Play the keyboard - the correct sound is playing

9. Turn keyboard off

 

10. Turn keyboard on

11. Enter 3-1 Stage setting

12. Plays the sound that was written to memory before the load - the loaded stage setting tone is no longer there

[Knuckles]

Hi Jaspeter and Choppin. I was wondering how things were going for you. Did you have to re-initialize your keyboard, Jaspeter; and if you did, was it successful? Is your stage setting ok now Choppin? Did you delete it completely, or was there another way round it? Thanks.

[Choppin]

Hi Knuckles,

 

I haven't tried recreating the same type of scenario with clearing out the stage setting through the editor right after having written a different tone to memory - so I have not verified that that is a solution.  I did clear out a stage setting and copy a saved setting into the empty slot - it seemed to work but under the premise of the first statement which is to say I never saved a different tone to the stage setting and committed it to memory before trying the clear and replace method.

 

I tried the loading from the USB drive scenario a few times with various stage settings and the result was the same when turning off the power.  Sometime this weekend, I'll make sure I go through a very specific test and post the steps and the results.

 

In any case, as I see the situation, if it is an intentional feature, where you load a stage setting and it is only temporarily in memory, then there should be a simple way to commit it to memory on load - either in the load dialog or hitting the Write button after the stage setting has loaded.  Otherwise, I see it as an error with the firmware.

 

In a live situation and based on what seems to be the design intentions of the PX-5S, I don't think using a computer with the Editor to delete stage settings and reload them is a clean solution.  The Editor really isn't a stage tool, but a setup utility.  One should be able to simply load stage settings from a USB drive and expect that they will be available after a reboot of the board.  Loading a stage setting into a slot - occupied or not - and confirming that you wish to do that, should be enough to expect that the current stage setting is being overwritten with the new data, and that new data is available on reboot.

 

Since there are at least 3 occurances noted in this thread (Knuckles, jaspeter, and myself), and each user has updated to v1.11, then either we all did something wrong when installing the update, or there is a glitch in the loading of the stage settings or the Save All (or perhaps other data that we haven't gotten around to loading yet).

 

To ALL:

Is it advisable to reinstall the v1.11 firmware?   

[Knuckles]

Hi Choppin. Thanks for the info! I don't think that v. 1.11 is the problem, as my experience happened a few weeks BEFORE it was released. I think I did not express myself very clearly in my previous post. What I did was: empty the slot with the help of the data editor. I then turned off the keyboard. Then turned it back on, reloaded the stage setting I wanted and all has been fine since.

It may be possible to empty a slot without the data editor - I don't know. I am a bit slow at grasping new technology. The important thing seemed to be to have an empty slot and then turn off the power. Seemed to properly erase the keyboard's memory.

Are you saying that it has happened to you more than once? Ie. with different stage settings?

I guess, having had it happen once, it is a bit unsettling and I am wondering whether I should always be carrying a memory stick with all my sounds to all my gigs just in case....

[Choppin]

Hi Knuckles,

 

I haven't been sharp with all of my testing.  I'll have to do it by the numbers to be sure I'm recreating the same conditions each time.

 

The important thing seemed to be to have an empty slot and then turn off the power.  Seemed to properly erase the keyboard's memory.

 

 

So, you only had to do that once, and now you can save things to any slot empty or not?  Or do you have to do it every time you want to save a stage setting?

 

Thank you

[Knuckles]

Hi Choppin. Yes that is right. I just did it once and since then my grand piano sound has lived happily in its old slot. I have not attempted to test it to see if the problem would reappear if I were to load the unwanted stage setting again. I have been letting sleeping dogs lie.... However, at some point I fear I am bound to accidentally load something in there, because the stage setting is 0-0, and if you forget to select another number before you hit "write" when changing stage settings around, it defaults to this one.

I have moved around pretty well every other stage setting on the keyboard now and had no problems at all anywhere else. Best wishes.

[jaspeter]

I am away from my keyboard for the next week :-( but what it's starting to look like is that a USB load goes into the edit buffer instead of the permanent slot. I agree with choppin in that it should become committed with a "write" button press, but I haven't tried that.

[Choppin]

1. Save stage setting 9-2 to USB:

   a. hold MEDIA button > Save > Stage Setting > dial in 9-2 > [Enter] > [Yes]

 

2. Press [Organ] Tone bank.  Current zone is zone 1. Z1 on

 

3. Write > Stage Setting > 9-2 > [Enter] > [Yes]

 

Organ has replaced electric piano sound in zone 1.  Plays fine.  Change banks and stage settings and come back to 9-2 and it still plays.

 

4. Power off

5. pause.............

6. Power on

 

7. Switch banks and patches, 9-2 still has organ on zone 1. 

 

Now to load the old stage setting back.

 

8. Hold Media > Load > Stage Setting > [Enter] > [9-2] > [Yes]

Play the keyboard, it plays the loaded Stage setting - so far so good...

 

9. Power off

10. pause........................

11. Power on

 

12. Select 9-2 - the organ's back and the loaded stage setting is gone.

 

It seems that if a stage setting is "Written" to memory using the Write button, loading in a new stage setting to that same spot will cause the new setting to be lost on power off thus retaining whatever had been previously written to memory.  So deleting the spot in the editor makes sense as the memory seems to be "unlocked" in that case allowing the writing and retention of a stage setting.

 

I loaded a stage setting into a completely different spot that hadn't had anything written to memory and it retained the loaded stage setting after power off.

 

Well, I am able to repeat that cooky behavior.  Can someone else give it a try using the same steps?

 

As a note, I tried Knuckles suggestion but afterwards, if I follow steps 1-12 again, the sound doesn't retain after power off.

[Knuckles]

OH no.........Last night I had a great time loading in all of the new vintage sounds (from a USB stick). Got all of them where I wanted them....except twice (inevitably) I didn't set the slot number and so they ended up in 0-0. (You know what I am about to say, don't you....) The final one which I put there was PhasChDistEP. I do not remember what the first one was.

This morning I reloaded the much loved concert grand into its normal 0-0 place. Then thought I had better just check.....Switched the piano off, and sure enough, am back to the PhasChDistEP sound. As you have mentioned, Choppin, this is clearly an ongoing problem which is not going to go away.

Fortunately I know how to do a temporary fix but in future I will definitely carry a USB stick of my sounds on me at all times just in case. I am only surprised at how few of us have had this problem so far....

Let's hope the engineering wizards are able to get to the bottom of it soon. Having said all that, the PX-5s is still amazing beyond belief, (as is it's incredible after sales service!!!!!) and this small problem is the only one I have had with it.

[Mike Martin]

Guys,

I'd like you to both save all of your Stage Settings and Tones individually (using the Transfer tool on the Editor is fastest) and do the following. 

• Reload v1.11
• After the firmware is reinstalled do an Initialize All

A complete guess from my part but I suspect that somewhere there is a flash memory error.  By doing this you should clear out any problem issues and be back to normal.

[Choppin]

Hi Mike,

 

The save is just to make sure we have a back up?  When you say save the tones, what do you mean? 

 

And if I were to need to download the original stage settings, is there a repository where all of the default stage settings are kept?  I looked in the download section, but I'm having trouble understanding where or if the original stage settings are all grouped.

[Knuckles]

Hi Mike. Thanks for the suggestion, but regretfully (and to my surprise!) it did not work. I did exactly as you suggested; reinstalled the update, initialized, then reloaded all my stuff.

I then tried turning off the piano twice and both times my concert grand was still in place.

Next (and rather against my instincts) I installed the stage setting mentioned above into slot 0-0 - from the usb stick. Turned the piano off and it was still there. Felt a glimmer of hope...

Finally I reinstalled the concert grand. As soon as I turned off the piano it vanished and was replaced by the PhasChDistEP sound.

I am certain you will have a similar experience Choppin. What a shame, but the puzzle remains unsolved. Thanks for your help anyways, Mike - always very much appreciated. On the plus side, I am now pretty hot at loading, unloading and saving all the bits contained within this keyboard.....

[Mike Martin]

Ok Knuckles, I've sent a report of this off to Japan. 

 

In the meantime both of you (Choppin and Knuckles) send me a Private message in this forum.  Please include:

 

1.  Serial Number

2.  Dealer where you purchased the PX-5S

3.  Your contact info (email, phone, address)

 

I'll see what I can do.

[Mike Martin]

And if I were to need to download the original stage settings, is there a repository where all of the default stage settings are kept?  I looked in the download section, but I'm having trouble understanding where or if the original stage settings are all grouped.

 

These exist here - http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/files/file/1-px-5s-v110-stage-settings/

However if you do an Initialize all, that is not needed.

[Mike Martin]

Hi Mike. Thanks for the suggestion, but regretfully (and to my surprise!) it did not work. I did exactly as you suggested; reinstalled the update, initialized, then reloaded all my stuff.

I then tried turning off the piano twice and both times my concert grand was still in place.

Next (and rather against my instincts) I installed the stage setting mentioned above into slot 0-0 - from the usb stick. Turned the piano off and it was still there. Felt a glimmer of hope...

Finally I reinstalled the concert grand. As soon as I turned off the piano it vanished and was replaced by the PhasChDistEP sound.

I am certain you will have a similar experience Choppin. What a shame, but the puzzle remains unsolved. Thanks for your help anyways, Mike - always very much appreciated. On the plus side, I am now pretty hot at loading, unloading and saving all the bits contained within this keyboard.....

 

Knuckles, can you tell me how you "Reinstalled the Concert Grand" Stage Setting? 

[Mike Martin]

Hi Mike,

 

The save is just to make sure we have a back up?  When you say save the tones, what do you mean? 

 

Chopping, the PX-5S contains both Stage Settings and Tones (including HexLayer tones).  If you've created any custom sounds yourself you need to save these to the USB drive or use the Transfer tool in the Data editor to save these to the computer.  If you have not made any changes to them yourself and only utilized the Stage Settings that are available from the forum then you don't need to backup anything. 

[Knuckles]

Hi Mike. I loaded the concert grand sound from a USB stick.

[Mike Martin]

To be clear, you loaded a Stage Setting or a tone?

[Mike Martin]

From the manual, the ! symbol means that there has been a change that hasn't been committed to memory.  The * means the change has been registered.  It's a little confusing on that point because many of the tones within the stage setting have the ! next to them.  I don't imagine that means they are all unsaved data...

 

I have a * for the stage setting name and a ! for the tone . 

 

The procedure I used was:

 

1. Saved 3-1 as a stage setting using the front panel to the USB drive

2. Changed the tone under 3-1 using the Piano tone group and the +- to make it 00

3. Used Write to commit the changes to 3-1

4. Played the keyboard with the new tone - working fine.

 

5. Loaded the saved stage setting from the USB drive using the front panel into 3-1

6. The name has the * , the tone name has the !

7. Play the keyboard and the proper sound that was loaded plays.

   7a Switch to different stage settings in different banks

   7b Come back to 3-1

8. Play the keyboard - the correct sound is playing

9. Turn keyboard off

 

10. Turn keyboard on

11. Enter 3-1 Stage setting

12. Plays the sound that was written to memory before the load - the loaded stage setting tone is no longer there

 

I need to clarify this.

The PX-5S does some things that are unique.  Stage Settings can contain tones that are UNIQUE to other stored tones in the PX-5S.  For example if start with 0-0 ConcertGrand and you make a change the tone (Filter, effects...etc) and you save the Stage Setting...the edited tone is stored WITHIN the Stage Setting.  You don't have to separately save the tone.  This saves time and is much more convenient.

The ! next to a tone name indicates that the TONE within the Stage Setting is DIFFERENT than one that is saved elsewhere.  It is however stored within the Stage Setting.

[Knuckles]

To be clear, you loaded a Stage Setting or a tone?

Hi Mike. I used a stage setting.

[Choppin]

Mike Martin wrote:

• Reload v1.11
• After the firmware is reinstalled do an Initialize All

A complete guess from my part but I suspect that somewhere there is a flash memory error.  By doing this you should clear out any problem issues and be back to normal.

 

 

Hi Mike, reloading and initializing didn't solve it.  If I load a stage setting off of the USB, as soon as I turn the power off, the old tone comes back.

 

Just a note, if the stage setting is replaced using the editor, the tone holds after power down.  But, if the tone is changed using the board controls, and then writing the new stage setting to memory, and then a stage setting is loaded from USB specifically, the tone from the USB loaded stage setting is lost and the stage setting that was written, reappears.