Loaded Stage Setting Tone not held after power down

[Knuckles]

Hi Choppin. That is extremely interesting!! I just tried overwriting slot 0-0 from the editor (feeling slightly queasy as I did it as I have a gig tomorrow.....) but you are right: I was able to load two tones into 0-0 and both reminded glued in place throughout two power cuts.

So I am wondering; could there possibly be a problem with our USB sticks? It seems a bit like grasping at straws to me, but I don't know enough about the whole setup to know whether this is possible. I haven't got a spare one on hand to try just now, but will look into it unless I hear that it is not a possibility? Mine says "Sandisk Cruzer 4GB" on it.

It also makes me wonder whether most people using this keyboard add their sounds directly from the editor, and so MIGHT also have the problem were they to use a USB stick.....

[Knuckles]

I just read your post again Choppin. Are you saying that the problem arises EVERY time you attempt to load a stage setting in from your USB stick, and no matter which slot you put it in?

[Choppin]

Yes.  I tried it with several different slots in different banks.  The USB load works initially - I can even switch banks and such and the tone in the loaded stage setting retains, but as soon as I turn off the power, it reverts to whatever tone was written to the stage setting prior. 

 

In all my tests, I've always changed the tone in the stage setting and have written that stage setting to memory using the Write operations.  When loading a stage setting from the USB into the slot I have written the new tone to, the stage setting tone is replaced with the loaded one until I turn the power off - when powered up, the old tone is reverted to and the loaded tone is gone.

 

It also makes me wonder whether most people using this keyboard add their sounds directly from the editor, and so MIGHT also have a problem were they to use a USB stick...

 

 

Me too.  It would be nice if some others tried some tests - or if they have, given some feed back. 

 

In general, it's not a show stopper. Most people probably have their keyboard setup and ready to go (all set up through the editor) and don't really need to load stuff from USB drive when performing I guess.

 

Still, this issue seems like a memory glitch.

[Knuckles]

Hi Choppin. OOh! Your problem is definitely more severe than mine then. I just tried loading a stage setting from the USB into a random slot and it was fine. My problem is only with 0-0 for some reason - perhaps because I keep accidentally dropping things in there, and the keyboard is showing its disapproval....... Or maybe your keyboard is newer than mine and therefore you have a more advanced version of the problem.........

Do you think it might possibly be the USB sticks? As you say, it is not a huge problem, but I have found not knowing when it would next happen a bit worrying and would really love to get to the bottom of it all. (Also I can't stand a mystery......) It is good to know that the problem is only connected with the USB stick. Hopefully Mike will hear back from the engineers soon...

[Choppin]

 Hi Knuckles,

 

Do you think it might possibly be the USB sticks?

 

It's a possibility.  If I get an extra stick, I'll give it a try.

 

My problem is only with 0-0 for some reason 

 

 

I think part of the key here is that I'm changing the tone on a stage setting, then writing the stage setting to the keyboards memory using the Write command.  Then, I'm loading a new stage setting from the USB drive into the stage setting I just changed the tone on.  In this scenario, the loaded tone reverts.

 

If I just load a stage setting into a slot that I haven't changed, the load from the USB replaces the stage setting and that stage setting REMAINS even after power off.

 

So the difference is in writing a stage setting to the keyboards memory THEN trying to load a stage setting into that slot.  The new stage setting tone isn't retained.

 

I discovered this because I saved the default stage settings first because I wanted to mess around and change things.  I figured I could just load back in the stage settings I saved but it doesn't work correctly if I commit my changes to the keyboards memory first - at least not using the USB load. 

 

The stage setting tone isn't lost on power down under two conditions:

 

1. A stage setting was loaded into a slot using the editor

2. A stage setting is loaded from the USB drive into a slot that HASN'T had the memory written to it using the Write button.

 

Do you see the distinction I'm making?

 

Luckily, I have the defaults and if mess up while playing around, I can get my settings back using the Editor - so far.  I just wish it worked 100% with the USB drive.

[jaspeter]

Sorry I haven't been able to provide input.  I've been away.

I have been trying a few different scenarios with the issues I've been having.  Here's a description of the problem and some of the different things I've tried:

- Editor is used to create different stage settings for a gig.  They are loaded onto the keyboard.  Then from the keyboard, I use the Save All function to write everything to a file, say "setlist1".  I have already saved another file of the factory presets after the v1.11 release, say "factory1".
- At the gig, I load setlist1.  Everything is where I expected it to be, situation normal.  After the gig, I load factory1.
- At the next power up, setlist1 reappears.
- I reload factory1, cycle power, and setlist1 reappears.
- I reload factory1, go to a stage setting, say 0-2, and press write and follow the prompts to overwrite.
- I cycle the power and everything in setlist1 reappears except 0-2 is now the factory preset stage setting for 0-2.
- I reload factory1 and press write and follow the prompts to overwrite for stage setting 0-0.
- I cycle the power and everything in setlist1 reappears except 0-0 and 0-2, which are now the factory presets.
- I reload setlist1, cycle the power and everything in setlist1 reappears - as expected.

It really seems to me that loading from USB goes straight to the edit buffer and not to permanent storage.  It poses an interesting thought, though.  Technically, the keyboard can store twenty banks of ten stage settings each.  It's just that there's no way to cycle between the permanent storage and edit buffers without cycling the keyboard power or leaving an edited setting and returning... or is there?

UPDATE:  I loaded the Zep Clav stage setting from USB into 0-0 and cycled the power.  It stayed in 0-0.  I then reloaded factory1 and cycled the power.  It came back with setlist1, but Zep Clav was still in 0-0.  So, for me, loading a stage setting from USB appears to place it in permanent memory.  I haven't tried it with other stage settings, though.

[Choppin]

Hi jaspeter,

 

Thanks for the input!

 

So, is loading from the USB working or not working?  Or is it inconsistant?

[Mike Martin]

Guys and Gals,

 

I've had a few talks with one of the engineers at R&D.  We've tested countless units and have not been able to duplicate this.  I believe that if there were a memory problem we believe the PX-5S would be behaving much more erratically than this.   Since I can't come to each of your homes, I need to verify this bug another way.  In order to do that, I'm going to need your help.

 

My hope is that you have a way to record video.  A cell phone or webcam will do just fine.  Show me step by step what you're doing, the buttons you're pressing.   Show me the display as you go.  Show me that is there before you turn it off and gone when you turn it back on.  Once have the video, it can be posted in a dropbox or unlisted Youtube link that I can get and send to R&D to analyze.  If you can do that, I'll do everything in my ability to get your PX-5S fixed up as quickly as possible.   If you none of you can make videos, we'll go to plan B.
 

For the record, pressing the WRITE button to store a Stage Setting after loading it from USB is not necessary. 

[jaspeter]

I should be able to have that for you tomorrow, Mike. Thanks!

Jason

[jaspeter]

Mike:  PM sent with link to video.

Choppin:  The problem is consistent.  There seems to be a permanent memory of anything I've uploaded from the editor.  I can do a "Write - Stage Setting" that seems to set it into permanent memory.  Interestingly enough, if I ever load the setlist that is identical to the one in permanent memory, I have no trouble keeping it there through a power cycle, even if I have done a "Write - Stage Setting" with a different stage setting.  If you'd like, I can PM you the link to the video I sent Mike.

[Mike Martin]

Thanks to Jaspeter's help,  I can confirm that there is a bug as I was able to duplicate the issue.  I'll work on resolving this as quickly as possible.

[Choppin]

Thanks jaspeter!  I would like to check out your video, if you please.

 

@Mike

 

So you no longer need a video from me?  I'll be away for a couple of days so I may not have a chance to upload it right away if you still need it.

 

Thank you

[Mike Martin]

No thanks Choppin.  I've got everything I need.

[Knuckles]

Hi guys. I've just had a busy few days but now have my Sherlock hat back on, magnifying glass in hand and am keen to crack this....

Choppin: I have tried a different memory stick and the problem remains so we can safely rule that out. I also tried your approach of pressing the "write" button as part of the test. I tried in 7-2 and it saved the setting correctly, with or without pressing that button. For me, the problem seems to lie exclusively in 0-0 and it happens without me pressing the write button.

Jaspeter: Interesting to hear your update. I have not attempted to load in entire sets of stage settings (don't think I would dare at this point, until the issue is resolved...) But it sounds like - as in Choppin's case - things can go wrong for you anywhere in the 99 stage settings. Strange how it only occurs in 0-0 for me. I don't know what that can mean. Well done on making the video.

I also have made a video for Mike (made it before I saw his post above stating that he doesn't need any more.......) Even as I write it is making its way, electronic droplet by electronic droplet into the black hole that is called dropbox, with the speed of a diseased tortoise.

Mike: Brilliant news about you replicating Jaspeter's results!! I am planning to shortly be sending you a copy of the above mentioned high quality post-modern-avant-garde-cinema-verite-epic video (LOL) by PM - unless you really don't want it.... I am hoping that perhaps it might be of some use as my experience seems to be slightly different to that of the others? I believe it is also showing quite a lot of potential in cases of extreme insomnia......

Best wishes all.

[Mike Martin]

Knuckles, not need for you or anyone else to do any more diagnosing at this point.  It is confirmed as a bug and the rest is up to our team in Tokyo to get it fixed up.   I'll keep you posted.

[Knuckles]

Ok Mike. That's excellent. Thanks.

[Mike Martin]

R&D has already identified the issue and they're working on the update.

[Choppin]

That's amazing! I'm so impressed with how you and Casio support this product.  Discovering this bug and then you guys taking it seriously and addressing it so quickly makes me feel like a team member!

 

Great service!

 

Thank you for your hard work.

[Knuckles]

Good work Mike!! Can't wait to get my dose of the remedy.!! (Fingers crossed that it will work....) Many many thanks for all of your efforts in sorting it out for us - your help in this matter is very much appreciated!! .

[Knuckles]

Hello Choppin. I thought I would let you know that Mike has posted a workaround for our little problem over on the Facebook page. I have tried it and it works. :-). :-). Should certainly make life a lot less stressful until the proper fix is available. I am not sure if you are on the Facebook page, so thought I had better mention it here just in case you are not. Here is his fix:

For now here is the workaround. Load the Stage Setting in from USB. Press EXIT to leave the Media page. Press the WRITE button and press Enter two times. Done.

I would add to this that one further 'yes' is also required after 'done' ........ :-)

Best wishes,

Knuckles

[Choppin]

Thanks, Knuckles.  I'll give it a try.

[dc2k]

I posted this as a new thread but Choppin thinks it might be related to this post, I'll repost it here: 

 

I have a saved stage setting where I've applied some distortion to a piano tone, and a number of other things (not sure what exactly because I'm just experimenting but lots of reverb). 

 

Then today, I write a phrase and re-save the stage setting but immediately after doing so, the first thing I notice is, the distortion effect has been replaced by the equalizer effect.

 

Not sure what else was changed because I'm 100% sure what other parameters I had adjusted exactly but changing the effect back to distortion, it sounds like how it originally was so it could be just this effect parameter which was changed.

 

This happened yesterday too but I shrugged it off and imagined I had changed the effect by accident as I had been adjusting the effect parameter on another zone.

 

Anyone else encounter this phenomenon?

[Knuckles]

Hello Dc2K. I expect you will have read through some of this thread by now so will have some idea what we have been experiencing. Perhaps it might be worth trying a small experiment: save some other stage setting to slot 0-0  (do this with a USB stick, not the editor). Turn off the keyboard and see if the new sound is still there. If it is, reload the concert grand (again using the USB stick). Turn off piano. If the concert grand is in place when you turn it back on, I would suggest that you might be dealing with something else rather than what we all seem to have. If not, then welcome to our little club!

[Choppin]

@dc2k

 

Did you run any tests?  Did you notice the reversion after power off?  Can you repeat the unexpected behavior?

[Knuckles]

Hello Choppin. I had a new experience this evening.... I was trying to load a TONE from the usb stick. Having loaded it correctly (on three occasions), it disappeared each time as soon as I changed stage settings. I did not even need to turn the PX off! (Hope the bug isn't behaving like some strange progressive disease...) I have not had any problems with tones before, but it may be because I have used the editor with them - don't know. Simply cant remember.

 

Has anything like this happened to you? Mike's fix fixed it so that was good, but it was a bit disconcerting to say the least. Jason has not attempted to load any tones so he has not experienced this.