phrases,what am I doing wrong ?

[Hugh O Kelly]

I write a simple 2 bar drum loop in logic

Export it as a midi file

put it into the editor

and it loops  it back and works …………..but with an extra 1/2 bar

So I change the selected measure to 2-4,or 1-2or 1-3

Always with a blank section !

 

 

 what am I doing wrong ?

 

 

[Choppin]

See if this helps:

 

On the keyboard press [Phrase] once

Use the + and - keys on the right hand side to select the phrase you will want to overwrite (usually a user number >100)

 

Press[Phrase] a second time to make it and the Record light flash.

 

On the small display you should see Rec Mode [New].  And if you Cursor down to End Measure, Use the - key until you set this to [Auto]

 

Press [Phrase] once again to turn the phrase editing off.

 

In the Editor, using the Phrase Convert button, choose your midi file, make sure Channel 10 is set (for drums), choose your measures, drag the midi file from left side to right side.

 

Choose the Transfer button, Make sure Phrase is selected from the drop down above, drag your converted measures to the phrase slot you just set up a little earlier.

 

Play your phrase.

[Hugh O Kelly]

Thank you again Choppin,

My two drum machines died and I must get the drums on the PX-5s working for playing live.

I find it very good that each program (or stage setting)  remembers its own tempo

Good for changing into new songs fast.

Since I record the drums in logic on channel 1 ,will I still have to change it to 10 ?

 

Thanks

Hugh

[Choppin]

Hi Hugh,

 

Try it on either.  See what happens.  Usually drums are on midi channel 10, but if you recorded them on 1, give it a go.  If it doesn't work, try switching the channel in logic to 10 before you save the midi file - see if it makes any difference.  As far as the measure timing, setting the phrase to auto on the keyboard should allow it to adjust to whatever midi timing is in the file.  Make sure your midi file has a time signature.  If the measures in logic are layed out with the correct timing, I'm not sure why you would be off an entire half measure on the Px-5s.

 

Do you have firmware 1.11 installed?  There were some timing issues with loops that I think were corrected.

[Hugh O Kelly]

Choppin,

 

I did what you said but it did not work for my midi drums correctly on 1 or 10

I then tried it with a midi track (treasure ,Bruno Mars) 

and it worked perfectly

Perhaps it doesn't like my drum programming !

 

Then I deleted the notes only on the track (treasure ,Bruno Mars) and left the midi commands 

and put in a simple loop   

Not today

?????

 

yes I have the latest firmware 1.11 installed

probably something simple

What do you think ?

[Choppin]

I don't understand what you mean when you say your midi drums don't work correctly but your midi track does.

[Hugh O Kelly]

What it is,is that I write my own drum tracks and tweak it to get it just right for my playing

those did not work

 

so

I then used "treasure" midi file and it worked fine

[Hugh O Kelly]

Because I come from the drum machine world

we always write our own patterns

ie all the usual pop,rock,jazz and more jazz,blues stuff but also patterns just for my playing original tunes

'cause I write a lot of my own stuff

[Choppin]

So, if you write a drum machine pattern, you can't save that as a midi file? 

[Hugh O Kelly]

If I write my own midi file which I used to in the past

What I did is use a template midi file and then write the song so it would work if any one else was using a midi keyboard.

(It was a while back,20 years)

but drums was always on 10,bass on 2 etc. from what I remember.

So what I was effectively doing ( or trying to do ) was, write my own midi file with two bars of drums

My reasoning is if it works for a standard midi ,it should work for mine !

 

No ?

[Choppin]

Hi Hugh,

 

A couple of things to consider:  if you are using a midi template from 20 years ago, there's a chance it isn't GM compliant - meaning the instruments/patches may not match up the way you want.  If you are using drum machine hardware from 20+ years ago, the same thing applies.  In fact if a midi file is produced from that drum machine it may contain a lot of proprietary midi information that is only useful to other devices of that brand.

 

I did a couple of tests using Hydrogen software drum machine, and Anvil Studio.  I produced a midi file from each. Each file contained 1 track that was set to midi channel 10.  All drums. 

 

I converted and copied over the midi file to the Px-5s as a phrase using the editor.  Both files worked fine.  In Anvil, I created a 2 bar drum pattern.  Worked fine.  In Hydrogen, I created a 29 bar drum thingy - worked fine also in the Px-5s.  A thing to note about Hydrogen, the drums don't seem to match the GM specification so not everything sounds the same, but the measure length was correct.

 

I can only speculate that the midi file you are producing/using may be a little off somewhere.  If you have the time or the inclination, try downloading Anvil Studio.  It's pretty simple to use and it has a drum machine pattern generator (rhythm track creator) and there's a free version.  See if you can just get a drum pattern you create to work.

[Hugh O Kelly]

Sorry Choppin,

I have not explained this well.

What I do now is this;

I get a modern midi file

import it into logic

Solo the drums

but delete the 'notes' but leave the former set up information on the track so logic still thinks it is a midi track

(control ch 10 Bank MSB ,volume, pan, exp )etc

then

I write my own drum track

then export it as a midi file 

and 

then

follow your instructions

in my way of thinking,it should work

 

I find it difficult to write my own phrases in the px 5s but I'm getting better at it

Slow and tedious 

drums on zone 1 with volume on K3

because it would not work unless zone 1 was on I just assigned the drums to the bottom note

Now K3 works well as volume for the drums

 

Thanks Choppin for putting up with my badly phrased way of explaining myself

[Choppin]

Hi Hugh,

 

I pulled out an ancient copy of logic I have.  I'm not sure if it operates the same way as the current versions, but perhaps...  Anyway, my goal was to create a midi file from scratch.  To start, on the transport, I set the end measure to 2 so my sequence will only be 2 measures long.  Next, in the Arrange window, I used the pencil tool to draw a sequence on the drum track.  I then open the Matrix Editor (Piano Roll) and created a drum pattern.

 

I then export it as a midi file.  From there I use the computer editor for the Px-5s to do the conversion and the transfer onto the keyboard as a phrase.  It works and doesn't create the extra half measure.  I recommend creating your midi file of the drum beat completely from scratch as there may be residual information from using the premade file you manipulate.

[Hugh O Kelly]

Thanks Choppin

I will try just that

I though it would work for in theory it should 

Thanks again

Hugh

[Hugh O Kelly]

Well I tried what you said in piano roll /step time

and what ever I do I'm getting 1 1/2  times what I put in

I've got logic 9

 

I'm looking for a high bridge to jump off !

 

one thing I did find out

​it doesn't have to be channel 10

but it must be the same channel when you change the midi file into a phrase

meaning if you record drums in channel 10 and try to put it into 1 ,it will not go.

[Hugh O Kelly]

Still can't do it

so I'm learning how to program in step time

[Hugh O Kelly]

Done it