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Kembreg

Extremely complicated to use (AP-450)

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Bought an AP-450 for my daughter for Christmas.

The piano is quite nice but oh my gosh is it difficult to understand how to use it.

The manual is not very clear and does not really go into any depth.

I wrote to casio asking for an instructional video.

They sent me to this forum.

Anybody have any ideas where to get help?

There is nothing on youtube.

David

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Thanks for writing.

For example, you can have 2 tones layered. Its possible to adjust the balance between the 2 tones. I tried following the manual and simply could not get it to work.

I would really really appreciate a step by step video with this product. i.e. click here, hit this key etc.

Any help would be appreciated.

David

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No problem David. Page E-8 of the manual shows how to to adjust the volume of the tone layers.
http://support.casio.com/en/manual/008/AP450_EN.pdf   

This video will also show you how to do this:



Hope this this helps. You're great dad for getting your daughter such a nice DP!  :) 



                                   

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Thanks for saying that.

 

I did see that video before contacting casio.

 

The video is well done, but that specific point about layering is not really clear.

 

Click F or F# -> What does clicking F do, What does clicking F# do?

Do I click it once, many times etc.

 

Also, yes I have the manual and the manual shows something entirely different.

It shows 2 triangles tapering off to the right and left of the keybord giving the impression that the volume of tone 2 is set by clicking a key somewhere in the left triangle.

The louder more to the centre, the quieter more to the left.

Honestly, this is what the drawing is insuating.

However, it doesn't work.

There is no mention of F or F# in the manual.  Only a drawing of it with no explanation.

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When you layer two tones together, you choose the first, then the second tone.

Holding the function button and pressing the highest F key on the piano will balance the layer heavier towards the first tone, and holding function while pressing the highest F# key will balance the layer towards the second tone.

You can either press the note repeatedly to get your desired balance (about 15 steps I think from memory) or just hold it down until the beeps stop. (All while holding the function button)

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Jared,

Thanks. Figured this out this morning on my own. Still though, its not what the manual says.

Have another issue...

Page E-18

To delete a recorded song, press the function button and the Song Recorder button. There is a drawing showing the left LED off and the right LED blinking. This is however not what happens.

What happens is that the Left button in ON (not off) and the right button is blinking.

Am I doing something wrong are is the manual wrong again?

--

Also... As I work through each feature in the piano, am I going to have ask you?

Are you an employee of Casio? (happy if so, feel guilty if not) Are you really willing to answer me with so many questions?

Would it not be better if Casio did a Video to show each feature?

That would be very good indeed.

David

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David

The manual is correct, for the layer balance the two tapering off triangles you mention are separate to the diagram of the keyboard above it. The diagram of the keyboard shows the two notes to use while holding the function button.

As for deleting the recording, you can delete only one track at a time. Here's what it says to do:

1) Press the Song recorder button until the Song Recorder light is flashing

2)While holding the Function button, press Song Recorder to choose which track to delete. The track you select (L or R) light should also be flashing as if you were about to record to it.

3) Press the Song Recorder button until the song recorder light goes solid.

4) While holding the function button, press the Song Recorder button to delete the track.

I think you're getting to step 2, with the left track on, and right track blinking. Follow through the rest of the procedure and you should be all set.

The manual can be tricky to decipher at times, probably the most helpful page is E-22 as this shows the functionality of all the keys, particularly for the functions that aren't labelled on the piano.

Ask away any other questions you have, there's plenty of other users who may be able to help as well - that's what the forums are for.

:)

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Thanks.  So we agree, the manual is confusing.

 

Now I have a much more serious point...

 

Trying to save to a USB stick.

First 2 times, tried, nothing saved.

 

Next time, tried, saved.

Played back last recording, completely random keys (very add).

Tried opening the file on the computer and it is corrupted.

 

So, for some reason, the piano saved a corrupted file though I never asked it to.

And the piano blinks indicating there is no USB inserted even though there is.

 

If I cannot resolve this, what to do?

Are there known bugs with this piano?

Are there software updates available?

How to install etc.

How to contact Casio to get it resolved etc.

 

Thanks.

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The USB was already formatted. Did not format again.

 

OK, I got some stuff recorded.

 

Cannot however playback.

This is really an interface nightmare.

Sorry to say, but who designed this interface?

I have a degree in Engineering and cannot get it to work.

And my 13 year old for whom I bought it for?

 

I do no think this is anything that Casio should be proud of.

 

Things can be sooooo easy if designed properly.

This interface is NOT designed properly.

 

For example, when recording, it flashes briefly.

What if I play a 20 minute song and find out it did not record??

Better would be to have the lights flash slowly (every 2 seconds perhaps) to say "Everything is cool, still recording".

 

I follow the instructions but cannot get the files to play back.

 

There are 16 files on the USB.

Page 19 says:

 

1) Press "Audio Recorder"

2) Press "Song Recorder" and it light will light up  [This is not the case.  Sometimes it lights up, sometimes it doesn't]

3) Hold down "Audio Recorder" and press the "+" or "-" keys (Select Keys)

 

The files should scroll through and play each file.

But... this is not the case.

 

All very complicated.

The same button is sometimes a "Function" key sometimes an "Audio Recorder".

What the fah??

 

Really, I trusted Casio and spent a lot of money and now I have machine which is simply too complicated for me, let alone a 13 year old girl.

 

The question is now.... Who is going to resolve this.

Really not happy.

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Hi David

 

The Lights should continue to flash as you record. (edit - not in Audio mode - they will only to continue flashing when recording to the internal piano memory, not when recording Audio to USB)

 

You say sometimes the Song Recorder light comes on, some times it doesn't - this button cycles through three modes:

Piano in normal play mode (ie no recorder, no song playback) - light is off.

Record mode - light is flashing

Song Playback mode - light is solid.

 

Each press of the Song Recorder button will continue to cycle through these three modes, so depending on what mode the piano is already in, will change how many times you need to press it to get to your desired mode.

The Audio Record button is similar, pressing this on it's own when a USB drive is inserted cycles between Audio mode on, and Audio mode off. (Both lights above the Song Start/Stop button light up solid for Audio mode on)

 

Have you tried using a different USB drive? It is possible the drive may be corrupt.

 

If you are getting different lights flashing to what the manual says, check page E-33 to see if you're getting an error message indicator.

 

Here's a video showing the audio record and playback function which hopefully helps. (edit: Video removed - some information was incorrect.)

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Hi Jared.

Your comment "The Lights should continue to flash as you record."

Yes, that would be logical.

Unfortunately it is not happening and the manual says they only flash twice, not continually.

 

Think of any standard video recorer.  When you are recording, you get feedback -> a little red light saying "You are recording".

On the piano, you get nothing.

 

The video you posted is not for the AP-450.  The video is another piano.

 

I have posted 3 videos on youtube showing you exactly what I am doing.

Maybe you can see what I am doing wrong.

 

 

Otherwise.... I have every desire at this point to return the thing and get my money back.

 

David

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Hi David

 

This is the important part:

 

Song Recorder ....  - this button cycles through three modes:

Piano in normal play mode (ie no recorder, no song playback) - light is off.

Record mode - light is flashing

Song Playback mode - light is solid.

 

Each press of the Song Recorder button will continue to cycle through these three modes, so depending on what mode the piano is already in, will change how many times you need to press it to get to your desired mode.

 

The Audio Record button is similar, pressing this on it's own when a USB drive is inserted cycles between Audio mode on, and Audio mode off. (Both lights above the Song Start/Stop button light up solid for Audio mode on)

 

 

The initial manual wasn't too clear in respect to that, when it says "Press Audio Record" - you may already be in Audio Record mode and hence not need to press that button to perform the operation. Pressing Audio Record again would exit audio record mode - this is what is happening in your first video. (Those were a great help in finding the problem - thank you for posting)

 

The manual has been updated - if you see this version it's a little more clear with some additional text added in on page 18-19. http://support.casio.com/en/manual/008/AP450_EN.pdf

 

Bear with me - as I'm not in front of an AP-450 right now, but I'll have a chance to first thing tomorrow morning (West. Australian Standard time) to just double check a few things, and then I'll translate it a bit more clearly.

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Jared,

 

I appreciate your efforts.

Please forward this to your marketing and your R&D people:

 

Do you think the average user needs to have to worry about which "cycle" they are in?

It's easy to make an interface difficult.  Any one can do that.

It's an art to make an interface easy and I'm afraid CASIO failed in this aspect with this piano, despite it being the high-end model.

 

David

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Jared,

 

You have tried to help, I appreciate that.

Now... how bout taking the next step and putting a video camera in front of your AP-450 and making an instructional video showing me (and hopefully others) how it's supposed to work.

I tried again today -> no luck.

 

That would be nice and I think fair to someone who bought the product, followed the manual and still can't get it to work.

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Hi David

 

I'll put a video together when I get a chance. We do have a lot of videos on how to perform different operations, unfortunately we haven't done this one yet. Note above where I have said the lights should continue to flash, I was incorrect there and have edited the above post.

 

In the mean time here's a step by step

 

1. With USB inserted, press [AUDIO RECORDER] button so that the orange and red lights next to "Song Play/Stop" light up to indicate Audio Mode is on. (if you have only just plugged the USB in, the L/R lights may flash for a few seconds while the USB drive is loading - don't press anything if this is happening, just wait until the Song Play/Stop lights come on)

 

2. Press the [sONG RECORDER] button as many times as needed so that the Song Recorder light is solid. (Usually just 1 press, but depends on what mode this was in prior to you performing this operation)

 

3. Audio recording will now begin automatically when you begin to play. the Song Recorder light will flash a few times to indicate Audio Recording has started.

 

4. When finished your playing, press [AUDIO RECORDER] button to stop the recording. The Orange and Red "Song Play/Stop" lights will flash a few times to indicate the file is being saved - wait until they stop flashing.

 

5a. If here you wish to immediately play this file back - while holding the [FUNCTION] button, press the [sONG PLAY/STOP] button.

 

or

 

5b. If you wish to choose a different file to play back, while holding [FUNCTION] button, press the key that corresponds with "Song Select + / -" to move up or down 1 song file at a time. You will hear a beep to indicate the change in song playback. Now while holding [FUNCTION] press [sONG PLAY/STOP] to start the playback.

 

or

 

5c. To record another audio file, simply begin playing again to engage the recording. Go back to step 3 once finished.

 

6. When finished in Audio Mode, press [AUDIO RECORDER] to exit audio mode for normal piano play.

 

 

Again, it's best to think of the [AUDIO RECORDER] button as a mode switch between audio mode on, and audio mode off, as opposed to a button that needs to be pressed in a sequence to perform the operation.

 

If you come to the piano only wanting to play back a file, and not record, do step 1, then step 2, then step 5b.

 

I hope this helps straighten it out,

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Jared,

 

Good news and odd news.

 

First the odd news.

Check out this video:

 

 

I saved 1 chord to USB and tried to play back.  See in the video what happens.  Completely random notes.

Any idea why this happened?

=================================

Now the good news.

I am able to record and play back.

This reason I had so much trouble is the following:

 

The manual says click +/- to cycle through the recorded songs.

This is however not at all accurate.

You need to click +/- and THEN click the function button while holding down the song button.

 

That makes really no sense.

Logical would be to click +/- and hear the song played back WITHOUT having to click other buttons.

Suggest you inform your marketing/product design people.

 

Really, just give it a moment's thought: Why would anyone want to have to press additional buttons after clicking +/- ??

 

I look forward to hearing from you on both points.

 

David

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Hi David

 

I'm glad you've had some success.

 

Jared,

 

Good news and odd news.

 

First the odd news.

Check out this video:

 

 

I saved 1 chord to USB and tried to play back.  See in the video what happens.  Completely random notes.

Any idea why this happened?

 

 

In that video it seems that you've pressed only the Play button on it's own rather than pressing Play while holding the Function button.

If you don't hold Function before you press Play, the piano will play back whatever has been recorded to the internal Song Memory, rather than the Audio Wave file from the USB. This is what you heard playing back in that video.

 

As for selecting which song you want to play back, yes the original manual was somewhat misleading and has been amended to reflect that once you have selected a song using + / - , you then need to start the song by holding the Function button and pressing Play. 

 

In terms of whether this process makes sense or not, I'll pass that feedback through.

 

There has at least been an update to the manual with the changes we have been talking about here.

 

Please refer to the updated manual here: http://support.casio.com/en/manual/008/AP450_EN.pdf

With descriptions of what has been updated in the manual listed here: http://support.casio.com/en/manual/008/AP450_LEAF2_EN.pdf

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Also, if you're reading the printed manual that came packed with the unit, Casio has often packed a separate paper that amends and corrects any mistakes found in the printed manual.   I know they did this for the XW-G1 at the very least.    So be on the lookout for this.   Having said that, it's really best to use the PDF manual online.  It will be most up to date. 

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We just bought an AP-450 and were using it in the settings it arrived with.  When I was playing a few days ago the sound suddenly changed.  Now the volume needs to be higher to hear the piano and it sounds more hollow. 

 

I am worried something broke in the piano, but it could be that a settings changed (my kids touch the piano). 

 

Is there a way to return to default settings? 

 

Is it normal not to hear the piano when the volume is turned so that the volume line is even with the power button?

 

Thanks,

Jenn

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Jenn

 

I apologize for being so long in responding to your post.  I am a CTK/WK keyboard owner, so I don't hang out over here in the digital piano sections much, but in browsing the forum this evening, I noticed that your post had been here for some time without a response.  If you have not yet found a solution, I think what you are looking for is in the left hand column on Page E-8 of the manual.  The part that most concerns you is the very last statement to hold down BOTH of the volume adjusting keys, simultaneously, to reset the volumes to their initial levels.  I would also recommend a review of the Operation lock procedure on Page 25, which locks out the keyboard's control buttons against "inadvertent" presses.

 

Regards,

 

Ted

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