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'the making off' a real church organ


krullebolle

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First of all,

 

hi to everyone here! This is a great and thriving community developed around the new casio. Currently I have one at home but i'm considering buying a second for live gigging and studio use..

 

Now, I have set myself to the task on learning all about the casio, I have watched the clinic's, which I find very helpfull, instead of the manual, which I find is lacking when I have to download it and read it. Thanks Mike for these clinics!

 

As a learning project I have set myself to make a true church organ for the px-5s. Not that the board is designed to be an organ, but still...

 

The setup which I aim for:

- all six sliders are stops (on/off). In following order:
16' bassoon (-1 octave) --> oboe [199]

8' principal  --> klarinet [202]

4' principal (+1 octave) --> chapel organ

3' mixture   --> piccolo [203]  on 3 layers

2'1/3 Nazard (still under investigation which sounds best for this)

8' trumpet.

 

Now I have some questions:

 

- the internal amplifier. When i open all stops, I get distortion. So I corrected in all layers the maximum volume to 90 instead of 127. Is this the correct way? I've seen it pass on the facebook group, from other people who had trouble with it, read it and then forgot about it...

 

At the moment what I have sounds good, but the more I add, the more I need to set the volumes lower. This is normal? (I guess so, it sounds logical, but still)

 

- the mixture and nazard stops. Both are sounds composed out of 3 differently tuned pipes.
As an example, for the mixture I use a layer for the piccolo +1 octave, another layer for the piccolo + 2 octave and then another layer for the piccolo + 1 octave and then 7 steps (a fifth) tuned up.

Now i can only control with one slider 2 layers, not 3. Which is a problem. But when I use in the first 2 zones both a hex layer, i can get around this problem by using the same layer on both zones, with a different hex (the first two piccolo's in layer 4 and 5, zone 1, the third piccolo in zone 2, layer 4. That way i can control with one slider, 3 layers and althus have one mixture stop.)

But then I quickly run out of layers for my nazard (which needs also 3 layers).

 

And I need to assign my trumpet to zone 3 for example, but i can't find out if I can control with a slider a single zone on/off?

 

--> my question: is there a better way here? Can i use one layer for piccolo and for example use the arpeggiator to accompany the fifth and octave?

 

 

 

Thanks for the responses in advance, although I've come to some boundaries here at what the px-5s can do with my first project :P, I'm still hugely impressed with what it can do and the versatility.

 

And if this is finished, I will the hex layers and stage settings.

 

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It sounds like you've got a good project going there!  I'd love to see the stage setting itself.  I don't know if you can load it directly to this thread or if it has to go into the Downloads Section.

I suspect that you'll end up needing to use the onboard master compressor to level out the volumes.  I haven't tried this with my organ sounds, although I really want to, and I suspect it will probably work OK.  There are some issues with using compression, that I suspect may have undesirable effects on the sound.  You're probably right in first trying to attack it by turning down the volumes of the individual elements first and then hitting it with compression afterward.

I see your problem with the multiple zones but equivalent layers for the mixture and Nazard.  Even though they only have 3 layers, you have to dedicate 4 layers to each to use the two-layer, two-zone controls of the sliders.  If I may take a stab at your setup, I'd say:

Zone 1:  L1 & L2 - 3' (Piccolo),  L3 & L4 - 2 1/3' (Nazard), L5 - 16' (Bassoon), L6 - 8' (Klarinet)

Zone 2:  L1 & L2 - 3' (Piccolo, one layer disabled),  L3 & L4 - 2 1/3' (Nazard, one layer disabled), L5 - 4' (Principal), L6 - 8' (Trumpet)

Then for the sliders:
S1:  Layer5 vol, active in zone 1 only
S2:  Layer6 vol, active in zone 1 only
S3:  Layer5 vol, active in zone 2 only
S4:  Layer1 vol and Layer2 vol, active in both zones 1 and 2
S5:  Layer3 vol and Layer4 vol, active in both zones 1 and 2
S6:  Layer6 vol, active in zone 2 only

In this scenario (assuming I understand what you're trying to do), you don't even need to venture into Zones 3 & 4.  You could if you wanted to, though, and to control the volume in that zone you can assign "CC#07:volume" to the slider and activate it for that zone only.

There may also be a way to mimic multiple tones from a single tone in zone 3 or 4 by using the Pitch Shift DSP, although I haven't really delved into that yet.

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Ok,

 

the sound is about finished... You know you got a mean machine if you are able to make it do things it wasn't designed for.. :D

Making a church organ out of stage piano... and quite possible, although i had to turn all volumes very much down and use the compressor.

 

Now the sliders act as organ stops on/off, but you can't add them whilst holding a chord... which you can with the volume layers... so in doubt whether to use the volume sliders or not, but it makes it more non- church organ. So as of now, i'll leave it.

 

At the moment I have 7 stops, without knob 4 as a seventh stop.

You can see the organ stops as different sounds which can be added to each other.

 

The stops in this stagesetting:

S1 -- 16' principal

S2 -- 8' Flute

S3 -- 4' principal

 

-- the first 3 stops are making a base layer

 

S4 -- 3' mixture

S5 -- 3' nazard

S6 -- 8' trumpet

 

-- these 3 give a different blend to the mix

K4 -- 8' voix céleste (slightly detuned, to create a wavering human voice effect)

 

Here is a quick example of my (lousy) playing to give an example of the different stops, and possible sounds within one stagesetting.

 

https://soundcloud.com/pieter-jan-lanssens/realistic-church-organ

 

 

Questions:

 

- If I play with all the layers on, the complete sound is as loud as one solo layer on, which isn't the intention. More layers should mean the sound gets louder. Anyone know a way how to do this?

- Still have trouble configuring the tremolo in the DSP, and could it be that the compressor pushes away the tremolo?

 

 

Suggestions and improvements are always welcome ! After some more tweaking i'll upload the hex files and stagesettings to the casio site..

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That sounds nice!  I'm looking forward to the download!

I'm surprised that the additional layers don't make the sound louder.  That is what I have encountered.  At least, I think it is.  Perhaps there was some subjective listening.  It could be that the compressor is doing something, which may explain the tremolo as well.  It is set to "on" somewhat by default.  Try cranking the threshold all the way up and the ratio all the way down.

 

Make sure you have the wet/dry mix set to hear the tremolo.  On several occasions, I've tried to chase down a problem with a DSP only to find that I had accidently set the mix all dry.

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I would not recommend using the compressor.

In a Hex Layer tone, there is a main volume for all six layers on the first editing page. Set the volumes of each of the layers near their maximum (where the relative volumes make sense) then lower the main volume until the distortion is gone.

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