Recording the XW's drums on a multi-track recorder

[Chas]

A fairly quick query here to anyone who records the drums from an XW (P1 and G1) onto a multi-track recorder/ DAW.

 

I'm am slowly working on and getting ready to record some of my compositions. As I am playing every part (or programming every part), multi-tracking is a godsend. I've done some rough demos by recording the XW step sequencer drums (looping the 16 steps) directly to my DAW (using the stereo 1/4" out leads), and then manually playing additional melodies/ parts as part of the multi-track process. However, one thing I would like to do, as I did when I recorded with bands in the past, is to record the drums to individual tracks (i.e. bass drum - track 1, snare - track 2, high hat - track 3 etc.) Plus, I'm not sure whether to program my DAW (Cubase) to trigger the drums via MIDI, or program the XW's internal step sequencers and have them clocked by the DAW.

 

Having each drum sound on an individual track will give greater control when mixing, though as the XW only has a stereo audio out it isn't possible to have individual outs per drum as per some of the more powerful drum machines. Plus my DAW only as 2 x inputs anyway! Therefore I am assuming I should record the drums one at a time when recording a programmed pattern? 

 

A couple of the demos that I've done, the XW drums sound surprisingly good when just recorded onto a stereo track. However, I'm concerned that if I start building the tracks up more I will need more flexibility with panning individual drums sounds, changing individual volume levels and adding compression/ effects etc. later on. Then again, bands like the John Foxx era Ultravox used the Roland TR77 on their track "Hiroshima Mon Amour" to great effect, and that only had a single line out for the whole drum machine.

 

How do other XW users program and record their XW drum tracks? Do you use the step sequencers on the XW's, or do you use your DAW to trigger the drum sounds of the XW's? And do you just record all the drums in one go as a stereo track, or do you record each drum to its own track on the recorder/ DAW?

 

Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

[Null]

Personally I prefer to usually build my own drumtracks as notation sequences using the piano roll function of Cakewalk, but on occasion I'll just record each track/channel simultanously on multiple Cakewalk tracks and then that's it for the drum machine's intelligence.  After that I can route the output for the final mix to any module or piece of hardware and pick and choose my drumkits from whatever sounds best.

 

Then again I don't try and micromanage it down to the individual drum level/instrument but at the same time I am not aiming to create anything in hopes of commercial success.

 

Personally I record with the philosophy that the listener will probably end up listening to it on anything from crappy laptop speakers to a full blown surround system, but I still do all my recordings in plain vanilla stereo, just like any CD recording.

 

Gary

[XW-Addict]

I either do two things. 

 

1 :  If I'm recording drums without doing it in Sseq I mostly create a drum kit adding the drums I want to have and save this file in the G1

      Then I record in the looper one beat from the drum kit I select lets say the bass or snare drum and add reverb, DSP or EQ to it or all

      three at once and record that, Reset the latter so I have no effects and do it for the other drums how I did it on my first demo Get Ready

      it fills three sample banks tho if I want say like three separate beat loops to play they each have to fit nicely together.

 

2 :  I'll create a drum kit and use it in performance mode set up DSP, Reverb and EQ in multifunc key and other not yet so successful assignments

      and try to work something out of it that is as of yet a work in progress its actually doing the same as the performance G1GrooveKit which is standard

      in the G1. Or record that drum kit in a Sseq file and do the same stuff I would in performance mode.

 

I really wished the engineers went bold and gave the XW series 4 DSP and some automation recording of some sort for all the options ,control and phrases

you you're self can record in real time. 

[Display Name]

This is a good thread. I would say if you are really going for that pro sound, you will want to defiantly want to be able to isolate each drum part. If you want to use your XW it will kind of tricky.. you will need to sync each track for each drum part.  It can be done, but it will be a lot of work.
You may find it easier to use a VSTI drum machine....

[Chas]

Thanks for the advice everyone, it gives me some ideas to ponder. As mentioned, I've manually made some demos simply by recording the XW's drums into my DAW (looping the step sequencer), then recorded multi-tracked manually played melodies and bass lines. This is mainly to get my song 'sketches' down before I forget them!

 

Now I have a few ideas I'd like to start recording properly, or maybe in a more 'professional' way. As the style of music I am going for is very much in the vein of 'synth pop', machine accurate timing is important to get that robotic feel and sound. Thus I want to start using the DAW and its MIDI more heavily, especially as it allows me to go back and edit far more easily. For instance, as my playing isn't exactly brilliant (I am first and foremost a bassist, and secondly a rhythm guitar player, NOT a keyboardist!) so what I had done in the past is to manually play/ record the parts in MIDI, then when I'm happy with the MIDI (through editing or through playing it right first time!), I feed the MIDI back into the keyboard and record the audio that the keyboard now produces. This has many advantages, as if I want/ need to I can used the MIDI track to play/ record a different patch or even a totally different keyboard. The 'playing' will always remain the same, and I get huge flexibility with the sounds.

 

The drums get more complex, as if I am to use the XW's drums I have a number of options. I can simply record the step sequencer 'live' (clocked to the DAW's internal tempo) and leave it at that. However, that means all drum pattern editing has to be done on the XW, and it gets much harder to edit once the recordings have been made. Or I can set up numerous patterns on the XW and link them together to make up the entire song, but again that limits me in terms of editing flexibility once the audio has been recorded. Whereas if I use the DAW and have the drum tracks initially recorded as MIDI tracks, I can then edit and re-record drums to my hearts content. I would use the same process as per the main keyboard tracks whereby I use the recorded MIDI drum tracks to trigger the XW's drums and then record the audio output. By muting the appropriate drum sounds in the XW, I can then record each individual drum part onto separate audio tracks, which would then give ultimate mixing control when it comes to the final mixing. I'm not sure if this sounds long winded, or if others would agree this is a good process to get individual XW drum tracks recorded onto my DAW, with a good degree of editing flexibility.

 

I guess as well a lot of this has to do with the fact that the XW only has a stereo out and my sound card (Creative Audigy 2) can only record 2 x line-ins at any one time. If I had individual outs for each of the XW's drums and multiple recording inputs then this wouldn't be an issue!

 

Oh, and just to complicate the recording process further, some of my songs are using the XW's arpeggio. So again, do I clock the XW to the DAW's internal tempo and record the arpeggio (played manually) straight to an audio track, or do I be brave and try and record the arpeggio as MIDI information...?!!!! That would give me further editing flexibility of the data, and like with the drums and melody parts,  I could play the arpeggio MIDI back into the XW and have the MIDI play any patch if required. Then I could record the triggered audio whenever needed. 

 

I don't know if I am making all this more complicated than necessary, though what I am hoping to do is to make some songs using ONLY my XW's (P1 and G1), hence wanting the most control over them that I can get. Maybe this might make my proposed recording process a little more feasible? Then again, on the demos I've done so far the XW's sound really good even when using very basic real time recording processes. Decisions decisions..!