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1GB of Flash RAM / and 1GB of EEPROM


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we have 1GB of Ram/Rom space inside the PX5S i wonder if this is completely used by Waveforms...

MOTIF / KORG / KURWEIL have sometimes less of space ( 128 -500MB ) and the have 1000-2000 Waves inside.

 

Maybe MIKE can solve the question a bit...also i wonder if connector C1 is used or opeen for Future Updates...

 

 

Kindly MauVan

 

 

 

sorry my error not 1 GByte but 1Gbit ( 128 MB )

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one is the W97 1GG5JB-25 from windbond a flashram with 1 GB

and the other is a EEPROM from Toshiba a TC58NVG0S3ET A00 also 1gb i wonder if the EEprom is 

used to be loaded into the flash ram on power on ...

 

 

the toshiba is a Nand Flash so it can be programmed by a very heavy programm....

 

i dont think we already use the full 1GB of space ,,,,hope really we have some additional

tricks inside this power Synth Stage Piano..

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Yamaha MOXF 355MB (when converted to 16-bit linear format), 2,670 waveforms, over 6500 arpeggios........ 1 GIG flash memory optional

Korg KROME 3.8 GB PCM memory ..........583 multisamples...........

 

It's hard to really compare those are synth (with 88 keyboard) and the PX-5S is first of all a stage piano and synth.

 

Padking

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shure,,,,the piano sample can be big inside the PX5S on the other side if there´s a NAND Flash / EEPROM with 1 GIG it could store

the samples and the software? for why the second Gigabyte of Ram ? maybe for the Arpeggios the SongPlayer and so on..

i am not an expert so maybe some "leaks!" could be nice,,,

 

 

:)

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Everything in the eeprom is stuff that isn't easily changed, because it is read-only mainly. (yes, with a firmware update you flash the eeprom and write new data on it, this is the only time the data in the eeprom changes)

So in the eeprom you would find the firmware and all the basic tones / samples/waveforms.

 

In the sdram you'd find the arpeggio's, the stagesettings, the hex layers (but not the waveforms), but also the phrase's. Everything you can change and store on the fly on the casio is in the sdram.

Because you can record quite some time and number of phrases, this can add up data, which is why the sdram is so big.

 

The 1 gig for samples compared to other keybeds is quite alot, but if you look at vst's it is peanuts. Mind you, this doesn't mean alot. In my opinion the piano samples don't matter alot in raw data, compared to a 4 gig or 8 gig sampled piano vst. What matters for me is the equalising, the AIR algorithm (which does wonders!) and all the other effects that make a quality piano sound (like the closed lid, the pedal sound, ...).

If you ever tried truepiano's(vst), which doesn't work at all with samples, but with algorithms you know this is the way to go for digital piano's. The algorithms which recreate realistic reverberation of the other piano strings who 'sing' along if a string is struck on the piano.

In this regard casio outperforms the competition, regardless of sample size.

Yes, the samples are important and are the basic foundation for a good DP, but there is always cost/effectiveness which you have to bear in mind. If we would have an eeprom with 10 gig samples, compared with the ones we have now, only very good pianists and classical music people with absolute hearing would be able to hear differences I think. It stays a DP, the sound comes from two boxes, not live strings. A DP can either be too perfect and sound clinical and sterile, or it will sound imperfect and has it own set of quirks which the next generation of DP's will try to address.
I just played a real piano again, after 5 months of casio px-5s, and totally had to readjust to the touché.

 

You said that the previous firmware update was 104 mb? I'm not sure on this, electronics has evolved alot and is always evolving, but to my knowledge you flash an eeprom. You erase everything that's on it and write new data in it. So if the previous update was 104 mb, this could mean that the total filesize of all samples + firmware is only 104 mb. It might be i'm wrong here. We don't know. Maybe they can flash a part of the eeprom only, with the new firmware. To my knowledge this isn't so, but electronics always evolve.

 

I don't think they'll add more samples. It's waste of money from casio's point of view, they don't gain money by it. Only lose money and time with it.

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Upon reading the datasheet for the eeprom, I see they can erase certain blocks only. So what I was talking about is incorrect.

 

With the firmware update they only replace the blocks in the eeprom containing the firmware, and possibly some samples. But probably most samples are left alone. So I wouldn't be surprised if the next firmware update is again 104 mb.
They can change the samples, but why would they? They make money out of selling hardware.
One way to go for a manufacturer  would be to team up with a software developer. Casio makes the hardware, and makes it easily up-datable with lot's of storage in it. The software developer makes the software, get's a part of the sell profits from the original keybeds that get sold, but also get's money for upgrades. If people want better samples and a new soundpack they pay. That way, the keyboard could stay in competition for at least 4 years. But again, casio wouldn't be making more money, because they can only release every 4 years a new keybed. And if the software developers would do there best, by improving the AIR algorithm and firmware and such, above adding better samples, no one would even consider buying a new casio in 4 years time.

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thank you krullebolle very good point of view,,,and yes maybe PX5S will remain like it is and so my next Synthesizer will be with an optional upgrading slot or download of samples and waves...there are some out there loading the stuff on the fly,,,or like NORD

 

i really like the PX5S but it was made very fast and how MIKE told us there was minimal improvements in the 1.11 update they changed so much why not another update bringing this to a higher level....in 4 years i will buy a new synth because i need a 2nd one and then a 3rd one and .....:)

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Hi everyone, this is my first post so forgive me my mistakes if any. 

 

I'd like to clarify the part numbers given above by Mau Van.

 

The Toshiba part is correctly identified as NAND flash memory (which is non volatile thus is able to retain the operating system and the samples when the keyboard is off), but the size is 1Gb (Gigabit) which is 128 MB (MegaBytes). This memory is probably shared by the software and the waveforms where most of it would be waveforms. Given the size of the update mentioned at 104 MB I'd say that the whole contents of the flash were overwritten (meaning the update contained both software and complete set of waveforms). However we need to be careful here as both software and samples might be compressed on one hand and on the other it is common that the update files contain addressing information used by the update program which make the update file bigger.

 

The second part from Winbond is correctly identified as SDRAM however the size is again 1Gb (Gigabit) which is 128 MB (MegaBytes). This part is volatile, that is it's contents disappear once the keyboard is off.

 

The reason we have the two part is that the NAND flash is usually to slow to execute program out of it. So what is done is at the powerup the whole contents of the NAND is copied into the SDRAM and executed from there. This might include waveforms or not depending on the maximum latency that is acceptable in the system. I'd guess that in the keyboard the goal is to minimize the latency to an absolute minimum so the waveforms are in fact copied into the SDRAM.

 

In addition to the software and the waveforms there must be some space for the user data (the presets, phrases, etc.), so either there is additional memory to hold them (unlikely) or there is a pre-allocated block of memory on the NAND to store it (more likely). Thus it's not the full 128 MB that is used by the firmware but a couple of MB less (I didn't count the size of the user data, but it will be quite small - the midi data takes very little space and also compresses very well).

 

Thanks for reading :)

 

Update:

Actually none of the explanation I've given really matters for making music (which I cannot do :)) but matters for making software (which I do for living) so I decided to clear up some misinformation.

Edited by faral27
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Yamaha MOXF 355MB (when converted to 16-bit linear format), 2,670 waveforms, over 6500 arpeggios........ 1 GIG flash memory optional

Korg KROME 3.8 GB PCM memory ..........583 multisamples...........

 

It's hard to really compare those are synth (with 88 keyboard) and the PX-5S is first of all a stage piano and synth.

 

Padking

Sorry the MOXF is 741MB (when converted to 16-bit linear format), 3,977 waveforms!!!

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Must be something wrong Yamaha spec description :http://ca.yamaha.com/en/products/musical-instruments/keyboards/synthesizers/mox_series/mox6/?mode=model

 

Tone generator
Tone Generator AWM2, with Expanded Articulation Maximum Polyphony 64 notes Multi Timbral Capacity 16 parts (Internal), A/D input part Wave 355MB (when converted to 16-bit linear format), 2,670 waveforms Voices Preset: 1,024 Normal Voices + 64 Drum Kits, GM: 128 Normal Voices + 1 Drum Kit, User: 128 x 3 (selected and copied from Preset bank), Normal Voice + 32 Drum Kits Performance User: 128 x 2 (up to 4 parts) Filter 18 types Effects Reverb x 9 types, Chorus x 22 types, Insertion (A, B) x 54 types x 3 parts, Vocoder x 1 (uses both Insertion Effect A and B blocks), Master Effect x 9 types, Master EQ (5 bands), Part EQ (3 bands, stereo)
Padking
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