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Converting Korg PA styles to Casio CKF format


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Hi chaps,

After browsing this forums for several days since I got my CTK 6200 for two weeks so found that you can't really create a new rhythm from scratch  :huh: . My ideal instrument now would be CTK 7200 but I got a good deal on ebay for a few months used CTK 6200 for £100 delivered ;)

Yesterday, I was trying to convert the rhythms/styles from Korg PA series to the Casio CKF so that I could load this into my CTK 6200. My workflow is:

01. Convert Korg PA style to Yamaha PSR 630 (SSF 1 styles which is actually midi file SMF format 0). I used Style Works XT style converter.

02. Rename the converted file extension .STY to .MID

03. Open the MIDI file in your sequencer (I used Cakewalk Pro 9 - old but very easy to use. You could use Anvil Studio free or something you're familiar with)

04. Change the drum track(s) from Channel 9 to Channel 10

05. Change bass track to Channel 11

06. Tweaks tracks for Chord tracks 12 to 16 (***Issues see below)

07. Test by connecting to your keyboard and playing each part as you hear the actual out from the Keyboard. (I actually connect the keyboard and set midi output of sequencer to keyboard before even opening converted file)

08. Save the file of you're happy.

09. Launch Casio Rhythm converter (part of IDES suit for last generation keyboards such as CTK 900 etc.) and open the converted style MIDI file

10. Set the markers for Casio rhythm parts i.e. Intro, variation, ending, fill etc. according to what is marked in the midi file converted and marked for Yamaha style. The Rhythm converter needs the starting point and number of bars so actual sequence in the midi file doesn't matter as long as you specify the part correctly

11. Convert to CKF rhythm by menu option Convert to Pattern which will save as Casio CKF file

12. Copy to your SD card in the Casio specific folder

13. Now load the rhythm (CKF) file in your keyboard in one of the user styles slot.

14. Now play! and have fun!

*** Issues:

The Casio CKF file only support 5 tracks for auto-accompaniment rhythm

* Channel 10: Drum track

* Channel 11: Bass track

* Channel 12: Chord 1 track

* Channel 13: Chord 2 track

* Channel 14: Chord 3 track

But the new generation of keyboards (CTK 6000/6200/7000/7200) supports 8 tracks for a rhythm in new AC7 file format. Technically it supports:

* Channel 10 to 14 similar to CKF format plus 2 more channels

* Channel 15: Chord 4 track

* Channel 16: Chord 5 track

which is great news and it makes the new generation Casio to stand with Yamaha, Roland and Korg in terms of style track counts.

But right know I cannot utilise the track 15 and 16 due to stuck in the conversion from Midi to CKF. So I cannot transform the Korg PA styles to Casio rhythm completely and bound to exclude/ignore track 15 and 16.

What I need is SMF(MIDI) to AC7 converter which has not seen the light of the day yet.

 

Well, this is my journey so far. I think I am kind of happy because I have happily converted Korg PA series Progressive style and playing with the on my Casio 6200 but I would be more glad If I could completely reproduce the complete Korg rhythm for my keyboard

 

Any help/comments would be great!

 

I would share my converted Korg style with you guys soon for your feedback. ;)

 

Cheers,

iNain

 

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Well, according to the CTK 6200 manual the auto-accompaniment supports 8-tracks :D

 

09 - Perc

10 - Drum

11 - Bass

12 - Chord 1

13 - Chord 2

14 - Chord 3

15 - Chord 4

16 - Chord 5

 

Which is exactly like Yamaha Style format and similar to Korg PA style. I have no experience of playing with Roland but I think it would be similar for there GW series arrangers specially Roland GW-8 which has one of the best auto-accompaniments in an arranger keyboard according to Roland and some reviews.

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Here is an interesting thread showing some of the problems you've already solved but no .AC7 converters:

 

http://www.keyboardforums.com/threads/wk-500-ac7-file-rhythm.23501/

 

I do know that my PX350 automatically changes .CKF rhythms stored in the internal user memory slots (10 only not much) to AC7.  I don't know if this is true with the CTK or WK series.  I have found nothing so far in the US, European or Asian Casio websites that have software to directly work with .AC7 files. I'll keep looking.

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Here is one more link that may be helpful. Tnicoson here at this forum contributed part of this other thread which describes converting a mid to a ckf and transferring it to the CTK,/WK with the IDES data manager as an AC7. Problem would still be losing the 2 extra channels you want to create from the mid to the ckf. I have also tried translating Korg and Roland styles with just about the same limitations as you've found. Obviously, there is no easy solution to this!

 

http://www.keyboardforums.com/threads/ac7-rhythm-format-file.25360/

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Jokeyman

 

Yes !  The CTK/WK units are like the PX in that respect.  If you load a CKF rhythm file into one of their user memory slots, and then use the Data Manager to bring it back up to a PC, it comes back as an AC7 file.  I originally thought that the Data Manager software did the CKF-to-AC7 conversion, but now, I believe it may be the keyboard's operating system that does it.

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Yes, tnicoson. You're absolutely right. The keyboard does the conversion and I have also seen earlier.

 

I think I am limited to utilise the following tracks on my CTK 6200 when using CKF for custom rhythms.

 

Track/Channel 9: Perc

Track/Channel 15: Chord 4

Track/Channel 16: Chord 5

 

But I have work around to spice up my custom rhythm which is to replace the missing part with one of existing rhythm's track. What I meant to say that I could assign channel 9 Perc track of keyboards existing rhythm to my custom rhythm where it is empty (because CKF does not support it).

 

I think I might need to upgrade to CTK 7200 so that I could do all on the keyboard with no or minimum interaction with sequencing software on the computer.

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  • 3 weeks later...

By the way... is it possible to do something like this and convert the tones (I mean the sounds) from a Korg (let's say a Korg PA50SD) to a Casio CTK7200? I would really love to have something like the Korg tone called Vox Legends in my Casio.

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  • 9 months later...
  • 2 years later...
 

Ниже прилагается мой первый переход от Korg PA 80 Factory Стиль: Progressive из банка 5 в файл формата Casio CKF. Пожалуйста, распаковать файл и загрузить CKF в клавиатуре.

 

PROGRE80.zip

 

Наслаждайтесь! И дайте мне знать, как это звучит!

 

спасибо

Super!

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  • 4 years later...

I thought that if the CTK series keyboards have a USER rhythms section, that it was possible to MAKE your own user rhythms and store them in those slots like in the old, very old, HT700/HT3000/HT6000 keyboards from 1987?? With such modern tech as flash based memory and PCM sounds, and USB, and so on, I would think tech from 1987 could be easily incorporated into these uber high tech CTK keyboards of 2000s? What am I missing here? Even the old Yamaha keyboards from 1985 to now still allow this from the keyboard lol! Custom drummer on Yamaha, and on Casio HT700 it was User rhythms in 10 slots. My Korg PA600QT allows this but by leas and bounds as it is a $1000 plus instrument. But it would be nice to record beats from the KORG into the Casio since the CTK4xxx and CTK6xxx have arabic drum sounds! And from what I am reading in the forum these Casios have a beefy accompaniment section of 8 tracks too!? So short of converting .mid files to the AC97 file needed by the CTK keyboards what other option is there? On my Yamaha QY20 pocket midi sequencer/tone module I can record custom beats and accompaniments too, albeit 4 tracks only but still! And if I want to copy a beat from another keyboard without taking the keyboard home first(as in go to the music store and take a midi cable and my QY20 with me),I can record the beat off the keyboard in the store into my QY20 track for track, and boom! I have a beat from another keyboard! I am assuming there is some firmware upgrade that would unlock this very very old feature right? Right?( he sighs, he pants, he cries, he goes home heart broken). 🙎‍♂️

Edited by pianokeyjoe
adding more info.
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I can't recall not having the CTk anymore-but it will be in the manual.

 

I think there is a setting in the CTK that will send all the accompaniment tracks out through midi so you can record your patterns in a computer DAW to edit and bring back into the 6200-but you might need more than 4 tracks to record to your QY, and I'm not sure the QY series can record all tracks at once like a DAW will, i have the QY100 and never tried. I can tell you, the tones will probably not match at all-you would have to re-assign most of the accompaniment tracks to sound like the Casio original rhythm, and you will have to know how the Casio assigns each track-which midi channel it will send each track out, its in the manual i think. Look up Chandler's, T's (and my) older posts-he has a complete documented guide for how to do all of this. and you will not be able to bring a Korg, Roland or any other keyboard's rhythms into a Casio without a considerable amount of work which i have done, but it may never sound the same since the tones in the other manufacturer's boards or modules will not sound quite the same-you will always find the rhythms default to using the GM tones in the Casios, unless you know and program in specific bank change messages with the program change messages, and this must be done with software in order to store those settings in your .ckf or AC7 rhythm. The Korg, Roland etc. rhythms will not be using the same or similar sounds in their rhythms as the Casios do in theirs. You will not get the original "extended' Roland, Korg or any other keyboard tones into your Casio. You must pick Casio tones close to what you expect to hear-and program in the bank and program change messages to select that specific Casio tone you want.

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@Jokeyman123Well my good sir! You are right! So you have the QY100 eh?! Congrats I had that one once. It was sweet! That unit uses 8 tracks for the rhythm section too. The QY20 only uses 4. But I am aware of all this my friend. I know to substitute sounds,etc. My thing was to get the pure midi data and then find the right sounds on my unit. Also I did the recording one track at a time so I could only choose the progression that I liked best for my target device. The Korg has Middle Eastern beats that I want in the Casios, but the trick in the Casio is the drum track.. the multi sample drum sounds in the Casio will NOT lay out the same as on the Korg BUT, I can re-assign the drum sounds in the Korg to correspond with the Casio and record my custom rhythms in the Korg to correspond with the CASIO and AAAAAHHHHH!! Gratification baby!! Beside.. my depth of custom beats and accompaniments are stuck as far back as the old Casiotones of the 80s rhythms, which ARE 4 tracks only! The HT700 was only 3 tracks(Drums,Bass,Chord). So having a Korg PA600QT,Yamaha RS7000, Yamaha RM1X, and so on, I have my pick of the litter as to what device I record my custom beats on, with CASIO limitation in mind of course, so I can then convert that style to Casio and import it to these 2 seemingly wonderful modern Casios! Weeeeeee! Solutions.

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20 minutes ago, Jokeyman123 said:

I just noticed-overlooked it, the previous post above already shows the exact midi channels you need to match up Casio assignments with other keyboards' assignments for auto-rhythm arrangements.

Yes sir! This ain't my first rodeo! But I do understand not everyone on here has done things outside the scope of the Casio products' intended purpose like some of us 😉

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  • 11 months later...

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