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How to Connect a MIDI controller to PX-5S and assign a different tone to the midi controller?


behrooz

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Hi,

 

Hope your'e doing great...

 

I have a a small 49 key midi keyboard (roland A49) and I'd like to attach it to the PX-5S via midi and assign a different tone from the

PX-5S tone library.

 

For example I need to have a piano tone on the PX-5S and an organ tone on the midi controller on the stage.

 

How do I do this? I would really appreciate your help...

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Hello. You will want to set Zone 2 on the PX-5S to be the organ tone and turn local control off for that zone.. then set the A49 to MIDI channel 2. That should do it. 

Where can I turn local control off only for that zone... I couldn't find it in the settings in the edit section for that stage setting.

and in  "system settings>midi" once I put off the local control, even the piano doesn't play. Where is the local control specific only to the second zone?

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To add to what Scott said, your stage setting should have midi channel 1 as the piano on zone 1, and midi channel 2 as the organ on zone 2.  Select zone 2 off by pressing the + or - keys to the left of the screen display until you see a Z2 in the display.  Then press BOTH + and - at the same time to toggle that zone on or off.  Then do what Scott said, transmit from the controller on channel 2.

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Does the above suggestion work? i.e. does turning Zone Enable (Under Zone Edit) OFF for zone 2 still allow an external midi keyboard to play the tone assigned to zone 2? Or is turning Generator Out to off for the zone a better solution?

 

  1. Does the Key Range assigned to zone 2 have any impact on the notes the external midi keyboard can play, in this configuration?
  2. Will the Px-5s still send out midi Program and Bank change messages for this zone when the Zone is switched off?

 

Is it possible to set two zones to the same midi channel? Ie play two zones as layers from an external midi keyboard sending out on one channel.

 

Further:-

Using two keyboards in a rig is pretty much a standard. It is also very common to want to set both boards up for each song as quickly as possible.  So it is also very useful to be able to use one keyboard to setup up both (second via midi prog and bank changes). Since the Px-5s does not provide for external midi control outside of the 4 zones, it seems that this basic function must be driven by one of the 4 zones. Which is a shame since it reduces the number of zones available for internal or onboard playing.

 

A work around would be to share a midi channel on one zone between the external keyboard and the zone. Using this zone to send program and bank changes to the external keyboard would allow a single stage setup to configure both boards. It would work as long as the zone could be configured not to send midi note messages. From the Midi Edit menu with in the Stage menu, it seems to be possible to switch off Program and Bank Out,  but not midi note info!! Unless Midi Out just turns off note sending?

 

Otherwise the zone’s key range could be set to one note out the way (G9! Or C0), but this would stop you from actually using the zone to play a tone.  

 

Implicit in the above is providing the rig the flexibility to not only configure both boards from the Px-5s but also play a zone or two from the external keyboard in some songs. I.e. midi out from the px-5s is plugged into midi in on the external board and it’s midi out is plugged in to the midi in on the px-5s.

 

Some clarification about what is possible here would be great... I speak as one who has just spent a painful month with a Nord Stage 2 HA88.. Beautiful but seriously flawed.. and both the manual and Nord's customer service were hopeless!!!! I've gone back to my trusty old Roland RD 700 SX, using it to setup and control a Nord electro3 73 (awful interface for patch selection 4 buttons and a 3 digit display!!!lol) and a Roland Juno Di.. But would dearly love to loose some weight and drop down to two boards.. Just hoping the PX-5s might do it? OK no mono mode and no expression pedals.. but that's for another post.

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Does the above suggestion work? i.e. does turning Zone Enable (Under Zone Edit) OFF for zone 2 still allow an external midi keyboard to play the tone assigned to zone 2?

 

Yes

 

 

Does the Key Range assigned to zone 2 have any impact on the notes the external midi keyboard can play, in this configuration?

 

No

 

 

Will the Px-5s still send out midi Program and Bank change messages for this zone when the Zone is switched off?

 

The on or off status of a zone on a stage setting does not matter when sending program change information from the Px-5s by pressing [bank] followed by the stage setting number.  The midi control for the program changed is controlled through this mechanism.  The same holds true when selecting an instrument category (Bank) and using the + and - keys to select individual instruments on a zone.  The zone's on-off status has no bearing on the instrument bank and program change transmission.

 

 

Since the Px-5s does not provide for external midi control outside of the 4 zones, it seems that this basic function must be driven by one of the 4 zones. Which is a shame since it reduces the number of zones available for internal or onboard playing.

 

This is not exclusively contextually true.  Any sound generator settings sent from the Px-5s can be controlled from the Sys Setting button.  These messages are sent as CCs and Sestem ex messages regardless of stage settings and zones.  Furthermore, using the song sequencer, up to 8 additional midi tracks can send information on channels 1-16.  In theory, one could send 12 sets of midi data on 12 channels simultaneously - 4 live, and 8 sequenced. Depending on the construction of the phrase data used to drive the song sequence, multiple combinations of midi code could be sent externally either as control messages or notes.  The depth of the information and creativity in this regard is up to the programmer.  Also, as was mentioned previously, stage setting changes transmit independently of the stage setting itself or zones (being on or off)- however, the bank and program change will only occur on the external output of the channel identified as the "Basic Channel" in the midi setup.  So if the Basic Channel was set to 13, then the stage setting program change data would be sent on that channel. 

 

But there is a tidbit that makes this a little unintuitive - a tone change will occur on the same zone and channel that is currently active.  So if you have zone 2 up and it's external channel out is set to 5, then choosing a tone (instrument) category (bank) and using the + and - keys to change the tone; that midi program change will transmit on the zones midi channel (in this example, 5).

 

 

A work around would be to share a midi channel on one zone between the external keyboard and the zone. Using this zone to send program and bank changes to the external keyboard would allow a single stage setup to configure both boards. It would work as long as the zone could be configured not to send midi note messages.  From the Midi Edit menu with in the Stage menu, it seems to be possible to switch off Program and Bank Out,  but not midi note info!! Unless Midi Out just turns off note sending?

 

Yes, but no need to make matters more complicated.   :)   If you want to send a program change on one of the zones and channels but don't want to play the sounds directly from the keyboard, just turn that zone off.  The program change info will still be sent once you select the stage setting or instrument bank but the notes will not.

 

 

 

...Otherwise the zone’s key range could be set to one note out the way (G9! Or C0), but this would stop you from actually using the zone to play a tone. 

 

Implicit in the above is providing the rig the flexibility to not only configure both boards from the Px-5s but also play a zone or two from the external keyboard in some songs. I.e. midi out from the px-5s is plugged into midi in on the external board and it’s midi out is plugged in to the midi in on the px-5s.

 

Midi is pretty much midi.  If you send midi data from a source to a destination, the destination will receive that information on the corresponding channel.  As I see it, the Px-5s is designed to be played live via the keyboard which sends note data on up to 4 midi channels at once.  Using the song phrase sequencer, one could potentially transmit prerecorded data on an additional 8 channels.  The px-5s is not a full fledged sequencer per se so it will not simply transmit 16 channels of program changes at once.  With clever song phrase sequencer programing, you could send 8 program changes on different channels at once if need be.  

 

I'm not sure what kind of depth to the flexibility you need, but in general with 2 keyboards, one wants some sounds to play from keyboard A in certain situations, and some sound to play from keyboard B in other situations.  That's pretty easy to accomplish with the Px-5s.  Plug the 2 keyboards together as you suggested and have at it!  The stage settings are unique to the Px-5s.  In that I mean it's unlikely for an external keyboard to recognize bank 112 (that is the MSB value for the bank the PX-5s transmits it's stage settings on) when a stage setting is changed.  However, most external keyboards will recognize the program change number which is the stage setting number.  If you have your external keyboard set to change to a certain patch when it receives a certain stage setting number as a program change, then you are good to go and mostly done.  On the flip side, if you want a stage setting change to occur on the px-5s then you need to send:

 

MSB=112 LSB=00 PC=stage setting number, from the external keyboard to the px-5s.  

 

 

Some clarification about what is possible here would be great...

 

It can get deep or it can be straight forward.  Plug the two boards together, press some buttons and see what happens.  The basic bank on the Px is bank 00 which is GM.  So any program changes you send to the px-5s on whatever channel, will switch to a GM sound if you do not send the bank change message of 112.  That's almost all you really need to know if you just want to play some sounds from either or both keyboards.  Turn off the zones to stop playing sound from that zone on the Px-5s but to continue transmitting midi data.  If you have specific questions, those can be addressed.  If you want to stop sending midi altogether for that zone assuming a midi out cable:

 

Edit > Stage Setting > Zone Edit > Midi Edit > Midi Out [off] .  The + and - keys to the left of the display controls which zone is being edited.

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Thanks Choppin,

From that it does sound like there is a solution. I'm pretty sure the Electro 3 will ignore bank change messages. But I'd actually rather choose to send the program change to it as a zone in the Px5s Stage setup.

Am I right in thinking that although you can change the channels each zone will transmit on, the receive channels for the zones are fixed to 1,2,3,4?

This would mean the Nord would have to be set to channel 2 if it was to be able to both receive program changes from zone 2 and play a tone on the Px5s' zone 2. Also to send the Nord's expression pedal to control zone 2!

I don't think using the sequencer to store changes on other channels is an answer unless it is called up as part of a Stage Setup. The issue is that there is no time between songs when the dance floor is full, so I really need to change the settings of the entire rig with one button push, to move from one song to the next. That's currently what the Rd700sx provides, and has done for the last eight years!

Really if there was a manual that actually covered these issues from the point of view of a working pro in a covers band. I.e practical on stage application. It would help.. But then I woke up! Lol

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Am I right in thinking that although you can change the channels each zone will transmit on, the receive channels for the zones are fixed to 1,2,3,4?

 

Yes.

 

 

This would mean the Nord would have to be set to channel 2 if it was to be able to both receive program changes from zone 2 and play a tone on the Px5s' zone 2. Also to send the Nord's expression pedal to control zone 2!

 

Yes.

 

 

...so I really need to change the settings of the entire rig with one button push, to move from one song to the next...

 

FROM the Px-5s to the external keyboard I'm not sure how a transfer of all of the stage setting information would be accomplished with a single button press.  Only through a Sys ex transfer would all of the midi settings be transferred.  However,

 

[EDIT] Originally I was on the track of deciphering how to transmit all of the stage settings options with a single touch of a button, and my advice lacked the necessary information.  To prevent future readers from any misunderstandings, I'm adding here what HectorSpace points out later in the thread:

 

The program changes for the individual zones can be sent along with the Stage setting midi message.  For each zone:

 

Edit > Stage Setting > Zone Edit > Midi Edit > Prog & Bank Out [bnk]

Edit > Stage Setting > Zone Edit > Midi Edit > Prog & Bank Edit [the settings you want to send to the external device]

 

[/EDIT]

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From the manual, it suggests that when you select a Stage setup, the PX 5s will transmit the midi bank and prog numbers set up for each zone:- (not the stage setup no, on the px 5s overall control channel, but specific zone control on the specified zone channel)

Zone Edit > Midi Edit > ProgBank Edit > . Further the manual states you can select whether or not to send this info; Prog&Bank Out [on/off]

Is this not the case?

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You are correct!  I forgot all about the zone level bank change option.   Thank you for reminding me!  I kept looked at:

 

Sys Settings > Midi > Stage Set Change and completely forgot about the zone settings. That's why it's good to talk (write) these things through!  Good Work!

 

I'm going to edit the post above with this information.

 

Sorry behrooz, we hijacked your thread a bit... on the plus side, it is all related to your original question (smiles meekly).

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