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rockitman

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Just got my new P1 and have it hooked up but this thing is NOT as easy as people have claimed it to be.   I am new to synths and had hoped that this board would give me some sounds I need for the music we play in my band.

 

I will give an example,   we like playing The Cars.   The song  "Let's Go"  has a cool synth in the beginning and I can't find anything on this board that is close.   I do not understand the difference between the Tone presets and the Performance presets,  nor the difference between Solo Synth and Hex Layer.   

 

I love the freaky sounds this thing makes but I am so frustrated with trying to learn this board,  the manual just makes me go  "Huh?"
 

And what the heck is Sequencing??   

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Just take it one step at a time. Start by watching the videos and following along with your P1.. you will get up to speed real quick that way.

 

So the definitions:

 

Performances are combinations of tones (sounds) and  drum/bass/chord patterns (sequences) and other functions (phrases and arpeggios (rapid notes).

Tones are a singles sound like piano, strings, brass.. You combine tones and patterns to make a performance.

Solo synth is a big, fat synth sound that usually is monophonic, meaning you can only play one note at a time.

A hex layer is 6  tones stacked or layered on the keyboard. For example piano and strings and brass all combines to make one big tone.


Again, don't be overwhelmed. Watch the videos and read the blogs. Ask questions when you get stuck - we are here to help.. here's the links:


Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/user/casiokeyboards

Blog:
http://http://xwsynth.wordpress.com/

 

Facebook Group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Casio.XW.Synths/


 

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There's a learning curve with any professional keyboard.

 

Everyone agrees that the manual sucks.  That's why we created this forum.

 

A good place to get started on your journey is with the XW FAQ posting.

 

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/4489-xw-series-faq/

 

As for sequencing, a sequencer is just that.  A piece of hardware or software that plays back a preprogrammed or prerecorded sequence of notes.

 

Gary

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I recommend this one for sure it shows you gradually how to create the sound you hear from a song you like and how to approach the XW to re-create them even for a newbie its very easy. I've got familiar with the XW in a short time not knowing anything about it. Try to treat the the HexLayer , Step Sequencer , Tones  and Solo synth as modules and learn that specific module disregard the rest for now to get what you want each patch you see is like a template you can adjust and play with it  everything can be restored so you can do nothing wrong as new sound you create get saved at user location :)

 

(Recommended)

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/48886141

 

I posted a go through maybe its helpful you can use this also for the solo-synth.

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/5159-editing-a-pcm-tone-into-a-custom-made-tone/

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Hey - what you're looking is for onboard synth presets. What you'll want to do is go to TONE [presets], and depending on if you want a MONOPHONIC synthesizer (one note at a time), or a POLYPHONIC synthesizer (more than one note at a time), you press either SOLO SYNTH (for MONO) or HEX LAYER (for POLY). 

 

Those are where you'll find the synth presets you're looking for. 

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I am familiar with going through the presets.    But if I can't find the tone I'm looking for on the presets I need to learn how to create it.  

 

So for example,  the synth in this song by the Cars   "Let's Go".   How does one go about creating this?

 

And how come I can't paste a youtube link here??  

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Just got my new P1 and have it hooked up but this thing is NOT as easy as people have claimed it to be.   I am new to synths and had hoped that this board would give me some sounds I need for the music we play in my band.

 

I will give an example,   we like playing The Cars.   The song  "Let's Go"  has a cool synth in the beginning and I can't find anything on this board that is close.   I do not understand the difference between the Tone presets and the Performance presets,  nor the difference between Solo Synth and Hex Layer.   

 

I love the freaky sounds this thing makes but I am so frustrated with trying to learn this board,  the manual just makes me go  "Huh?"

 

And what the heck is Sequencing??

I don't like to say it, but this synth is NOT really for people like myself and like you who play in covers bands.

I too was hoping to recreate some great classic synth sounds from the hits, but this machine is very poor at doing that.

It's great for taking one of its PCM tones and tweaking here and there and adding layers effects and making lots of new weird and wonderful sounds...But as for recreating those classic hits ? forget it.

There is a video on You Tube of OMDs Andy McCluskey recreating the classic synth sound of Enola Gay ( a track we play in my band )

He is doing this using Logic by the looks of it, he says it's just a cheap organ, layered with piano and reverbs added, I can't get anywhere near it.

For me, I now mainly use my XW as a second instrument, ie utilising the organs and using a couple of acceptable PCM synth tones.

I have recreated a handful of " tones" that I can just about get away with but they are nowhere near some of the recreations that are made to look so simple on You Tube.

I've said it before, if the likes Of Mike Martin did a you tube demo on the XW recreating classic synth sounds from the hits, Casio wouldn't be able to keep up with demand.

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I don't like to say it, but this synth is NOT really for people like myself and like you who play in covers bands.

I too was hoping to recreate some great classic synth sounds from the hits, but this machine is very poor at doing that.

 

 

Yes and no. The XW is NOT an analogue emulator as per a Roland Gaia or Yamaha  ANX. It IS however capable of recreating classic synth sounds once you get delving into its engine. Listen to some of Mike Martin's video demos and listen to the Vangelis CS80 'Bladerunner' sound, or the TB303 sounds. Also have a good listen to some of the downloadable sound files (in the download section), many of which have classic sawtooth sounds one of which sounds close to the infamous Polymoog 'Vox Humana' preset. Then there's the nice collection of bass sounds, many recreating the classic MiniMoog. 

 

The problem I see with the XW is that it is in many respects too versatile, and when you take the P1 with its Mono synth, Hex Layers, Drawbar Organ, PCM section AND Step/ Phrase sequencer it's understandable that some people don't know where to start. The interface isn't the most intuitive and the manual definitely doesn't help other than to give you a brief overview (the mono synth is much improved on the G1 for hands on tweaking however), though using the data editor makes it much easier when you start getting into the Hex Layers.

 

What I am surprised that Casio hasn't done already, is to release new sound set packages with the classic keyboard/ synth sounds that many so desire. Mike Martin has done an excellent job single handedly in creating some amazing patches, and there are some great patches available from users in the download section. However, the XW is easily capable of replicating almost any classic synth sound, such as a collection incorporating sounds such as Gary Numan's Polymoog sound from 'Cars', Rush's 'Tom Sawyer' Oberheim synth sound, Kraftwerk's 'The Model' sounds and even The Human League's 'Dare' album sounds, which were mainly a Jupiter 4 and Roland System 100 (I think). If people could hear these well known and identifiable sounds then it certainly increase the interest in the XW's, even though they are capable of far, far more.

 

Out of the box the XW may not be the best for finding the 'classic' synth sounds, though make sure you check the PCM section first as there are many excellent sounds in there. It IS however more than capable of recreating almost any synth sound with the right programming, though I agree that is not easy if you are unfamiliar with anything other than the most basic of mono synths subtractive analogue signal pathway.

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I am so dammed frustrated.   I've looked at many videos,  but still have no clue how to proceed with tweaking preset sounds to my liking.   There are just too many variables to know where to start.   I just want to make some sounds for the songs our band covers.  I was told this board was a very user friendly device but I beg to differ.   I so want to learn and understand but feel there is just no resource to do so.   Where can I learn about synthesizers?   To understand what an OSC is,  a LFO?  all these terms are just foreign to me.  This manual is terrible.  It just makes me more frustrated trying to understand. 

Mike Martin,  if you are listening,  I would pay you good money to come out here for a weekend and teach me about this X1.   As it stands now,  I have no use for it.  I don't understand it and am ready to return it back.  

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Slow down little buckaroo. ;)

 

You gotta crawl before you can walk.  OSC is an electronics abbreviation for Oscillator.

 

LFO is a low frequency oscillator.  Typically used to modulate a wave's envelope to give it a resonant or beat effect.

 

One textbook on audio synthesis that comes highly recommended as an industry standard in synth courses is this one.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0199922969/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I picked up a copy for myself a few weeks back but this weekend I may actually get some free time to sit down and read it.

 

I'd recommend starting out by ordering this book and perhaps a few other related works from Amazon to get an idea of what sound synthesis is all about and how to get started designing your own sounds with the standard building blocks which the XW-P1 supplies.

 

Gary

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One other thing worth mentioning.  Programming a synthesizer to get a particular sound rattling around your head is a deep and involved process with ANY synthesizer.

 

Working with about a hundred pushbuttons and a 80 character by 8 row LCD is a test of memory skill and hand eye coordination that would try the patience of Job but the results can be very rewarding if you are patient and dedicated enough to WORK for it and not demand instant gratification.

 

The XW, like most professional workstations and performance synths, is very deep and complex internally and it will take time and EFFORT to understand it intimately enough to make it turn on a dime at your command.

 

Fortunately, the XW's, like a lot of other pro synths these days also come with computerized editors and patch librarians to make your journey a little easier and give a better, more graphic and detailed understanding of its inner workings and what it can and cannot do.

 

If you want something you can simply plug in, hit a button and sound like Pink Floyd, then I'd suggest finding out exactly what they use for gear and buy the exact same gear for every band you want to emulate.

 

If you really want to make those sounds on any other keyboard however, you will end up having to spend a lot more man hours working at programming it than you spent to pay for the keyboard itself.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Gary ;)

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Quick Glossary of Synth Terms to Help You Out.

 

VCO  =  Voltage Controlled Oscillator

 

VCF  = Voltage Controlled Filter

 

VCA = Voltage Controlled Amplifier

 

ADSR Envelope =  The overall graphical shape of a note as it progresses thru Attack, Decay, Sustain and Release phases.

 

Filter Types.

 

Low Pass =  Allows low frequencies to pass while blocking mids and highs

 

High Pass =  The opposite of Low Pass

 

Band Pass or Notch Filter =  A filter tuned to a specific range of frequencies somewhere between the audible limits of the audio spectrum

 

Arpeggiator or Arp =  A computerized device or program designed to play a sequence of notes everytime a single key is pressed able to intelligently adjust the key signature of the sequence when the note is shifted.

 

That should help you get started.  If you want to learn more then buy the book I linked :)

 

Gary

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 Hello:

A XW-P1 is very difficult the first time. Patience, perseverance, experiment and joy. First: you learn how is the menu of the synthesizer. Second: learn the use and function of each mode (Solo Synth, Hex Layer, etc.). Third: download the data editor and use it. The data editor helps to understand the functioning of the XW-P1.

 

Data editor: http://support.casio.com/en/support/download.php?cid=008&pid=64

I took more than one year to understand this world of synthesizer. I had no knowledge of synthesizers and music (literally).

Thank you.

 

PS: Use internet and the Forum. They are excellent tools.
 
 
 
Edited by David
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just checking here. There used to be a dedicated webpage somewhere with mp3s of all the most famous synth "hooks" from the earliest to the latest, don't know if it still exists-good place to listen and try to emulate each with programming-yes programming is the key.

 

Remember, the XW represents what used to be separate pieces of hardware, each requiring some real patient studying and experimenting-there is the sequencer (look at the old modular sequencers to see what you're dealing with in the XW), midi data recorders-look at the old Yamaha, Roland and others-I learned on the Roland MC-50, what a brain-melter that was.

 

Then you have a synthesizer-fully programmable with a huge database of raw waves-that is where you will find your classic "synth" sounds, but you have to know how to manipulate resonance and which basic waves to pick primarily to get that hollow type of sound such as used in the Cars "Let's Go" and many others-I think that was created with a square wave with a lot of resonance and some high-frequency filtering.

 

And then you have the ability to use drawbars to emulate Hammond sounds-an art in itself if you've ever sat at a real Hammond with bass pedals, it took years for the best players to figure out how to use these drawbars and leslie effects for dramatic and mood-creating sounds (listen to Garth Hudson on Cat-Scratch Fever I think it was and how he used the clavinet-Up On Cripple Creek-and he had no synthesizers at all).

 

I have studied synthesis and music technology since the Stone(d) Age and am still finding ways to create on the XW that are not in the manual but require my interpretation and experimentation, but then that's part of the fun for me.

 

It must be hard if you are starting with an abstract concept of creating synth sounds without first having the experience of manipulating a sound directly with physical knobs and cables althought the XW has some of those too, just to find out what happens to your sound.

 

I learned that on the early Moogs and a Sequential Circuits Pro-One, which taught me the amazing array of sounds possible just with a few basic waveforms-a sine, a sawtooth and a square wave can create an incredible cross-section of sounds if you know how to manipulate the envelopes, add some ring modulation and resonance, or simply layer two waveforms and slightly detune or sync the 2 (I don't know if the XW can do that, I'm still studying it myself!)

 

Happy now, happyrat?

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Listen, I (ME, Kenny Ingram), was the guy that told you that this keyboard is user friendly - because it is. I watched just about every XW video there was on YouTube before I got my XW. I got my XW-P1 yesterday, and right out of the box, was able to do a WHOLE bunch of things. And just a few hours later I was tweaking my own sounds, making performances, ect. 

 

Let me make this clear: it's not the keyboard that's the problem, it's just that you're inexperienced with synthesizers. If you go ahead and return the XW, and buy a Roland Gaia, or something else, it's going to be just as painful to learn it. In every keyboard you buy, there's a learning curve - this should be expected. But I think that the XW is one of the easiest to learn. But in terms of presets, you will not find a current synthesizer with more than the Casio. If you're unsatisfied with it, you won't be any happier with what's currently out there.

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Oops-the track I meant was "Chest Fever" by the Band. Yep, any sound you could create form the past 30+ years is in the XW if you know how to program (with the exception of real-world "concrete" sounds that's what sampling is for and even my old CZs I had a programming book that did an amazing job with those with only the few wavesamples in the CZ, without sampling, wish I still had that book!)

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Jokeyman >>>  I LOVE your tech explanations of the inner workings of the XW synths, BUT....

 

PLEASE LEARN HOW TO USE YOUR ENTER KEY!!!!!

 

Seriously man, I zone out to dyslexia land when I see a solid 40 line block of text with no paragraph breaks.

 

PLEASE, learn to use the Enter Key to break your stuff up into readable paragraphs.

 

We'll ALL thank you for it. ;)

 

Gary

 

EDIT >>> Jokeyman >>>  THANK YOU for going back and editing that post.  It makes a hell of a lot more sense to my tired old eyes now than before ;)

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Okay, lets try this out (I'm by no means a sound designer):

 

 

Let's go to Solo Synth 3-0 "HiTresMotion". It sounds nothing like "Let's Go," but we can edit it so it can.

 

First, let's edit the RELEASE TIME (by going to Knob 4, and turning the release to about 46). 

 

Second, go to the drawbars or sliders, and turn Layer 1 all the way up, 2 all the way down, 3 halfway, 4 all the way up, and 5 and 6 all the way down.

 

Third, go to EDIT, and then scroll down to TotalFilter, then hit Enter. On the first page, turn HPF to LPF, and turn both Filter and Resonance to 64. Scroll to page 3/4, and then turn Env. Retrig ON. On page 4/4 make sure both LFO depths are turned to 00. 

 

 

Now from there you have part of the tone right. I still have to get more familiar with the SOLO SYNTH editing features, because I can't find how to edit the Filter Envelope or Amp Envelope. I'll post back here soon...

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Look at you Kenny.  The rubber pad on your new XW-P1 still smells and you're already here helping out.   :D   Go Kenny!!!

 

BTW.  I have been working on the main synth lead for that song since this came up here.  I just need to upload it eventually.  

 

Also, you may figure this out on your own but...the filter and amp envelopes are here....tone mode>edit>total filter(for filter that effects all layers) or osc block(for filter and amp per layer)>filter or amp>envelope

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Kurzweil and Korg leave it up to the third party programmers to create patches.

 

Honestly there's nothing stopping anyone here from releasing all of their patches as a commercial package, but in the true sense of community and good fellowship everyone on this board has seen fit to release their patches as open source and public domain.

 

The money grubbing accessories market is one reason why I don't own Roland or Yamaha.  After plunking down two or three grand for a keyboard I think it's insulting to have to shell out another $500 for a specialty cartridge with a hundred or so patches.

 

Just my $0.02

 

Gary ;)

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