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PX-5S Sequencer - Midi note recorder?


tjjohn61

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Hi All,

 

I'm trying to decide between buying the Kurzweil PC3-LE8 workstation and the PX-5S. I'm really impressed with the PX-5S, especially the hex layers and deep editing, not to mention the excellent keybed and light weight. What I'm not clear on though is the "Phrase Sequencer". The capability I'd like to have is to sit down at the keyboard, hit the reocord button, and play something off the top of my head and have all the midi notes recorded, whether it's a phrase or a ten minute improvisation. I know that you can record audio, which is great, but can you make a lengthy recording of midi note events? Maybe not, since the PX isn't a true workstation, but it would be great if it had that feature. Thanks in advance for any information you can give on this.

 

Tim

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As Darth Vader would say on that you have unlimited power!. Well according to the manual its approximately 1600 notes if you would record for a single phrase. Also recored wheel , knob and slider operations reduces the amount. 1600 notes a lot anyway :). Plus overdubbing can also be done and there also the song sequencer which lets you combine phrases into song.

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Thanks for the info. I guess I could work with that, although with chords, other MIDI events like mod/pitch wheel, etc. the 1600 notes would get used up pretty quickly. I'm just trying to get away from total reliance on the PC DAW for recording pieces, whether it's in an audio format or just capturing the MIDI notes. Could be what I need for that is more of a dedicated workstation, which has a standard sequencer built in, but the S5 is very tempting nevertheless...looks almost like a new kind of synthesis. Keep up the momentum in R&D Casio, you're right on target to challenge the usual big three. A few more bells and whistles like sampling, proper sequencer and beefed up brass, string, orchestra sounds would certainly challenge Yamaha and the rest. 

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Hello,

 

The phrase recorder pretty much does what it's name implies - it records short phrases.  The idea behind a phrase is that those snippets can be used as drum patterns, an arpeggio in a stage setting, or several phrases can be strung together in the song sequencer to create a song.  But playing and recording an entire song (unless it's really short) using a phrase won't really suit the needs you describe.  In my opinion, you'd still have to rely on your DAW to record extended pieces.

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Hi Tim and welcome to the Casio forums. I actually had a high-end workstation on order when the PX-5S was announced. After doing some serious thinking, I cancelled my order and went with the PX-5S. The keyboard action,  features, weight and features of the PX-5S sold me.

I used the money I saved to get an iPad and a ton of apps. This way I choose what sequencer and recorder to use.. I'm not married to the one included with the workstation. Editing on an iPad screen is so much nicer, An iPad mini fits nicely on the battery cover, so it is like a second screen.  :)

The other thing the PX-5S has is this amazing community of users who all help each other out. This forum is amazing with all the help and hundreds of free sounds to download. Our PX-5S Facebook Group has over 1,200 members. No snark or trolls - we just have a great time sharing pictures and tips. 

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Thanks Guys for your feedback. Experienced members here are very helpful I find. In the end I'll probably go for the PX-S5, but not until Xmas, so I have to time to think about it. I see now there are midi note recording possibilities, so that's one more plus for the S5.

 

Having 88 keys and authentic piano key emulation is the other big plus. My budget is around 1000 Euros this year, so the S5 hits that sweet spot as well. Not getting it till Xmas, so I'll be learning about it as much as I can before then, downloading the manual and watching the excellent tutorial videos by Mike Martin. 

 

I've heard the bread and butter piano, Rhodes and clavinet sounds on various YouTube videos, but not so much the other supporting sounds. How do the strings, brass, woodwind, orchestra, etc sounds stack up?

 

Until now I've been using mainly VST instruments, mainly for synthesizer sounds. I do have the Vienna Grand by Native Instruments, which sounds extremely realistic. I also use most the Arturia classic synth emulators and various NI synthesizers like Razor and Skanner. I have only a mediocre keyboard controller, so I look forward to using the S5 as a controller with some decent expression for those as well. But it will also be nice to finally have a decent standalone instrument rather than having to rely on a PC for all my sounds, tied to it like an umbilical cord!

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Hi,

 

I really like the px-5s.  I like how it plays, I like it's effects.  It has a great synthesizer.  When you want to create synthetic sounds there's lots of layering, filters, envelopes, arpeggios, the phrase recorder, all kinds of controls to make some very interesting sound textures and animations.  But, I think it has some of the worst standard PCM/GM sounds I've heard.  Woodwinds, brass, strings, especially solo instruments are very weak and you can often hear the loop points when sustaining an instrument.  Standard GM effect sounds like ocean, helicopter, applause, are terrible.  The distorted guitars are fairly decent, The non-distorted guitars are good for only some of the low and mid range frequencies.  Go much beyond low E and the A before middle C and you can hear the resampling - doesn't sound good.  It's either very few samples for the range of a guitar, or very low quality samples ,or a combination of both.

 

I know it sounds like I'm bashing the Px-5s, but I'm not.  It's one of my favorite keyboards.  For playing pianos, electric pianos, synths, synth pads, I even like the drums which have some controls to tweak the sounds - it's just what I wanted.  However, I did have expectations that the GM sounds would sound more professional and frankly, they do not.  I feel bad saying that about the Px-5s, but I've had it for some time now, have experimented and tried different things, and feel I can assess it fairly and the orchestral sounds just are not strong.

 

But I'll also qualify some of my statements:  one could use a hex layer to make an "improved" GM sound so to speak.  You can add and layer waveforms, PCM and synthetic, and control the envelopes and filters to produce a more desirable sound.  However, hex layers can only be played back on 2 channels (or 2 zones) which greatly limits the possibility of playing back an orchestral or jazz arrangement with quality sounds that you have designed for the entire 16 channel midi spectrum.  So, if you are happy to play back 1 sound at a time (it is meant to be a performance stage piano after all), then the poor quality GM/PCM sounds can be worked around.  But if you want to play back many tracks that aren't just drums, synths, pianos, and other keyboard sounds at the same time, then don't expect too much in the orchestral sound department. 

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Fair enough, it depends on what you want to use the 5S for. I think it would be great for synth sounds and piano/Rhodes sounds, and as a controller keyboard. You could always resort to DAW software sampled sounds for strings, brass, orchestra, etc. I accept it's not meant to be a workstation, but it fulfils its main purpose extremely well. I'm more into pianos and creating synthesized sounds than trying to emulate woodwinds and brass anyway. I love creating deep pad sounds, and it seems like the 5S does this better than most keyboards.

 

One thing though, does the S5 come with any drum and bass patterns for accompaniment? I'm a keyboardist, but definitely not a drummer or bassist! Nice to have those in the background to work with when necessary. Thanks for your reply.

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The 5s has a few basic drum and bass phrases.  I wouldn't call these accompaniment patterns, but some complex things can be made if you're willing to spend some time with it. Check out the links I'm adding below.  There's done entirely with PX-5s sounds live using phrases as backup and my own playing over the top.  I uploaded the user files to the download section here on the forums.  You can install everything on your 5s and play it yourself. 

 

Phrases could be chained together to create an entire song using the song sequencer.  Expanding these two demos is on my to-do list. 

 

https://soundcloud.com/bradmz/updated-new-order-bizzare-love

 

https://soundcloud.com/bradmz/eurythmics-sweet-dreams-ver-2

 

BTW.  These demo's use most of the PX-5s features.  The drums are custom, the tones are custom, the phrases are custom, the arpeggios are custom, the reverb is custom, the delay dsp is custom, the sliders are customized. 

 

 

And here's another set of demos......

https://soundcloud.com/casio-px-5s

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Brad beat me!  But here's what I was writing as he pressed  [ENTER]

 

...drum and bass patterns... It does, to a degree.  There are many predefined phrases.  There are a few bass lines that can be looped and a couple of drum patterns.  As XW-Addict had implied, phrases record MIDI information minus the program change.  One could play a phrase through any tone or hex layer.  If you step through all of the predefined phrases, you could assign any of them to a Bass sound and have it loop.  However, not all phrases were designed with the intention of playing through a bass, but part of the fun is assigning anything and everything to whatever you want!

 

Drum loops are little far and few between.  They are easy enough to program, and if you have drum loops in a midi file, they are easy to convert to phrases using the data editor.  The same goes for any part that you want to add as a phrase.

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I have one thing to add don't mind my rambling this is about PCM/GM level 1 sounds as someone between beginner/intermediate with aspect of synthesis, sound creation and music. Some of the sound are quiet stale but I also find they come into expression when you use the elements of the synth such as hex laying , filters , dsp etc. Most sounds come to live I had this bum feeling at first in discovering layering give lots of oomph to a sound.

 

On my XW-G1 I needed a Cello which was poorly but after I've stacked two of them and coarse and fine tune them hitting an compression on it I had a Cello, And found a way of sound creation but the G1 had templates that showed these possibility's. On the PX5 the sounds are GM level 1 with Casio AIR technology which is more then just PCM most synths are PCM or support multiple file types. But the standard set is GM level1 for some sounds others are AIR type which is richer. And I did the Cello thing on the PX5S love it all the same..lol I went loose doing this on every synth I have :) just to see the possibility's there a learning curve in everything.

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Brad beat me!  But here's what I was writing as he pressed  [ENTER]

 

...drum and bass patterns... It does, to a degree.  There are many predefined phrases.  There are a few bass lines that can be looped and a couple of drum patterns.  As XW-Addict had implied, phrases record MIDI information minus the program change.  One could play a phrase through any tone or hex layer.  If you step through all of the predefined phrases, you could assign any of them to a Bass sound and have it loop.  However, not all phrases were designed with the intention of playing through a bass, but part of the fun is assigning anything and everything to whatever you want!

 

Drum loops are little far and few between.  They are easy enough to program, and if you have drum loops in a midi file, they are easy to convert to phrases using the data editor.  The same goes for any part that you want to add as a phrase.

This part is definitely one which should be added about PX5 phrases directly at the hex layers and how it works together there is so much I'm glad there is video in the old day's I would get every magazine for that :) 

Ooops.   :D    Proves how helpful we are.  We're stumbling over one another at times to answer questions.  LOL

Its because we compassionate about keyboards and music XD

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Thanks for the brilliant compositions Brad, New Order is one of my favorites. In fact I love the 80s synth pop scene. You really showed the capabilities of the S5. You're right, you have to experiment and read the manual/watch the video tutorials to get the most out of the S5. The thickness and complexity of the hex layer sounds is simply amazing. I can't wait to get my hands on the S5 and start programming. 

 

I'm not that fussed about some of the supporting sounds being GM in origin. As you guys say, stacking them and filtering them and applying effects can make them sound pretty convincing. After I pay the new car off I'm definitely getting the S5 for Xmas. Didn't take much to talk me into it, you just need to have a good look and listen. You can see the keys rebound as in a real grand piano, it looks really authentic. As in any keyboard, there are always things you would like to see implemented, like a larger LCD screen for the S5, a digital out line, more sequencing power, better samples for the support sounds like strings. I'm sure Casio will take these suggestions on board and produce a killer workstation in the next few years. They already have the perfect keybed for the weight and a great synth engine. Just a few additions and some tweaking would really make it indispensable to any serious keyboardist who doesn't want to limit himself to just piano sounds. 

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  • 2 years later...

Amazing New Order and Eurythmics stuff, man.

 

How exactly did you do these Stage Settings? And can you trigger the phrases from a key, such as the lowest C?

 

This is what I'm trying to figure out... I made two phrases (drum beat, bassline) and I combined them into a "song" (4 bars), but I want it looped indefinitely, as long as I hold a key down... and I have no idea how to do this. Thanks! :)

 

 

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Figured it out-- hold arp button down, and each zone can either be an arpeggiator, or a Phrase. Some midi manipulation here and there, and I got it to do what I want to do.

 

Remember:

drums - always Zone 1

hex sound - has to be Zone 2 or 1

bassline, any other sound - Zones 3 and/or 4

 

 

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  • 4 years later...

It looks like I’m a few years late on this forum, but I thought I’d give it a shot.I just started using the sequencer on this. I set up a simple drum and bass track so I could record a background along with my piano playing. The problem I have is that when I play back the recording, the drum pattern, seems to have doubled some of the parts. For instance, instead of the snare hitting on the beat, it hits on the beat plus the next eighth. It does not sound this way while recording, only on playback of the resulting .wav file.  Tips, please? Thank you in advance.

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