a surge of sound when changing stage settings.

[QUAVERMAN]

I get a sound surge when i change stage settings.  the most notable are these two.  To preface, i don't change any settings except volume and the range and the sustain factor for a particular zone.  The DSP and the rest are all default. So here we go:

 

first setting:                                volume                    range

 

9FT CONCERT GRAND             105                       full length of keyboard

WARM STRINGS                        051                      C - C6

ACC. BASS                                 025                      C- E3     (the ''35'' originally was a typo)

GM VOICE DOO                         053                       A 2 - Eb5

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

SECOND SETTING:

 

WARM PAD                               098                        C - F5

HEX USER 199                          076                        C - F5

GM VOICE DOO                        127                         C - F5

GM MUTED TRUMPET              127                         F# - C9 ( 2 OCTAVES DOWN AND SUSTAIN OFF)

 

So, that's it. All other setting are default settings.

                               

 

[Mike Martin]

Paul,
Paul, what I was asking you to do was to upload the two Stage Settings so someone else (like me) could load them in and look at them.

 

As I said in the Facebook post, there is likely something in the DSP effects or EQ that is causing your issue.  We had already discussed everything you wrote above.  Here in this post you can attach your files so we can check them out.  You may have to put the two stage settings into a .zip file.

[QUAVERMAN]

Thanks, Mike. But i have to admit i have no idea how to put the two stage settings into a .zip file or up to the cloud. 

but I do sincerely thank you for the time you've taken to help me.

[dc2k]

Which bit are you having trouble with? Do you know how to save a stage setting to a usb? Have you used a zip application before?

[QUAVERMAN]

I know how to save them to the flash drive. i don't know how to do a zip application.  I don't know how to put anything on the cloud.

[dc2k]

To save them on a usb key:

 

Insert a USB key into the slot on the right of the keyboard. 

Press and hold down the button on the right labelled audio recorder/media

If you only tapped it and released it, then press the exit button and try again to hold it down until you see a screen called media

Scroll down to "save" using the button labelled '6' with a down arrow below it.

Select 'Stage Setting'.

Use the the -/no and +/yes buttons on the right to scroll to the stage setting number you want to save. You can also use knob 2 to do this.

Press the 'Enter' button when you reach the stage setting you want to save.

Then press the +/yes button again.

 

Repeat the process for any other stage setting you want to save on the USB key.

 

edit: Sorry just realised you said you know how to do this.

 

Next you have to remove the usb key from the keyboard and insert it into your computer.

 

Create a new folder on your computer.

Copy the files into the folder.

You can give the folder a name if you like.

Let me know if you're not sure how to do any of this.

 

Next you need to zip the folder which just compresses the files so they take up less space.

You might already have a zip application installed so right click on the folder with your mouse and see if you can find a menu item called 'zip'.

If not, you need to download and install this program if you use Microsoft windows:

http://www.7-zip.org/

If you use something other than Windows try and find a different zip application for your operating system.

 

Once it's installed, right-click on the folder containing your stage settings and select 'add to [folder name].zip'

 

Then you can upload it to this forum by choosing 'More Reply Options' in the text box you reply to posts with and then select the button marked 'attach files/choose files'

Try an locate your zipped folder and then post your post.

[Nick]

Hi,

I have also experienced several time the same problem with a particular combination of stage settings. Unfortunately I cannot remember which combination of stage setting produced such a problem. I also would like to know what could produce the problem.

Thank you

[pianomax]

I use the PX5 mainly as a master keyboard, but sometimes I use the internal sounds and occasionally I went into the same problem, which I think has to do with the way zones and controllers are reset when switching the Stage setting.

I have found an easy way to reproduce it, at least partially, using the programs from Mike Martin's Alternate Order set:

1) select the patch 0-5 "TheWay it is"

2) set Zone 2 (Warm Pad) cutoff and/or volume to 0 (move slider 1 and/or 2 up and then down to do that)

3) holding the sustain pedal down, play a chord (or several notes)

4) without releasing the sustain pedal, select patch 0-2 "LayerRockPno" and...

... the Warm Pad sound of 0-5 will "respawn" in full volume (the "surge of sound" the OP mentioned) till you release the sustain pedal, after that the 0-2 sound will play correctly.

PS: to make the effect more evident, you may try and set cutoff (slider 1) to maximum and volume (slider 2) to 0 at step (2). It is possible that with other combination of stage settings and/or controllers the "surge of sound" effect is even worse than this example, but the root cause should be the same.

[QUAVERMAN]

thanks guys.  I have noticed to that if i go from the grand piano to another ss that has a pad or strings  and back to the piano ss, i will get a surge.

this is all with the SS's that came with the piano, nothing i have touched.

But i'll try zipping. thanks for the info on that.  

I'm glad to see others are experiencing that.  I was starting to think it was just me.

against thanks for taking the time to help me.

paul

[Choppin]

My 2 cents worth; this is what I believe is going on:  The PX-5s is a big midi controller.  Think of it's sound generator as a bunch of synthesizers that will either play or not play depending on whether or not  they are assigned to a stage setting or track.  No mystery there so far.

 

Everything on the PX is controlled by midi events.  The sound generator just responds to those events.  The filtering, the volumes, the effects, these are all midi events stored within a stages setting.  When that stage setting is selected, you can modify some of these settings depending on the assignments of the sliders and dials, the depression of the pedals, how you play, and the various other buttons and controls on the board. 

 

Each time you switch to a different stage setting, the inherent midi events associated with that new stage setting are called forth.  This means all of the volumes, effects, program changes, etc. are brought up at once.  Whatever the volume settings of the new stage setting will be applied to the sound that is carried over from previous stage setting.

 

Now, there's a little more to it.  When you press a note, a NOTE ON event is sent.  As long as you do not release the keys, a NOTE OFF event isn't sent.  If you switch stage settings, a midi event program change cannot occur on the particular channel that is being held.  So in some cases, you will get the sustained sound of the previous program at the volume and effect settings of the new stage setting.  

 

If you press the sustain pedal, and release the keys, a NOTE OFF message is generated and you can change the program of the sound that is being held.  Again, however, you are still subject to the other default midi settings of the new stage setting.

 

I've tried to find a specific pattern of when sounds get sustained at all when switching between stage settings.  I think some stage settings or banks may transmit an automatic NOTE OFF or a reset command when switched.  A way to test which stage setting will hold over is to press and hold the keys and then activate that stage setting again.  For example select bank [0-0], play and hold a C chord, then while holding those notes, press [0] again.  If you still hear sound then that stage setting will maintain sound when held and switched to another.

 

The short version:

* Holding keys down and switching stage settings will sustain the notes of the original stage setting

* Pressing the sustain pedal, releasing keys and switching stage settings, will retain the held sound but switch the timbre(program) according to the zone and channels of the new stage setting (the zones can be on or off - it doesn't seem to matter).

* The swelling of sound occurs because of the default midi setup of the stage settings.  All settings are controlled by midi.  The values you see are midi related values.

* Only some stage settings/tones will sustain sound when switching between stage settings either because of how the tone is programmed, the stage setting control values, the inclusion of a damper control, envelope settings or some other specific factor.

[bwood301]

Choppin

 

Everything you said makes sense.  Thanks for the explanation.  The question remains  - Is there a way to modify the stage settings to prevent the sound surge when changing from one setting to another with notes sustained (either by holding keys down or using the damper control)?

 

In my case I just want to change from an electric piano sound to a grand piano sound.

 

Thanks in advance,

Barry

[Choppin]

I doubt it and my supposition is based on midi events being triggered.  My guess would be if the volume you are currently at, matches the default volume of the new stage setting then you might not detect the sudden surge.  If you had played a chord and were holding the keys down, the NOTE ON event has been "logged" and your sound may start to decay from its initial attack.  When you switch to the new stage setting, that NOTE ON event will be triggered at the volume of that stage setting initially then drop down to the decay level.

 

I think it depends on the stage setting volume and whether or not you are using the sustain pedal or holding the keys.  If you hold the keys, the program won't change to the new stage setting until you release them.  If you use the pedal and don't hold the keys, the program will switch to the new sound.

[pianomax]

Right Choppin. It is rather the way the PX5-s handles Stage Settings change that should be modified to handle these situations properly, as other keyboards do.