PX-350 keyboard mod, success at last!

[Jokeyman123]

Thanks for posting these additional pieces of info. Only one pic in these new posts show the main offending part as I found it-which is the felt strip that sits up on top of the key assembly and is very much hidden unless you take the entire keybed out-if you take only the center top control panel off you can see part of it through the same type of white plastic frame openings as the pics of the PX330 show but there is no easy way to get additional sound-deadening materials through there. It's possible but one would have to thread pieces in and out to get the felt in there, and the center part of the keyboard frame blocks it entirely. The metal fulcrum arms look similar-in the PX350 these are black and I'm not sure if the gray ones in the 330 are plastic or metal-the weight of the metal arms in the PX-350 are definitely the source of the main noise problem. One part of my felt strip came off (yeah i'm going to have to re-do this see below) and I can tell you the difference in noise in that section is huge.

 

The bottom strip can be threaded through by only taking the end panels of the PX-350 off (which was my first mod before I realized this wasn't the loudest noise-source), it's easier just taking the entire keyboard assembly out in one shot to do all of the necessary mods.  My original thick double-sided foam tape doesn't stick well to this part since it hangs upside down when the keyboard is in playing position so has to resist constant gravity wanting to drop it down. Must be poor adhesive on this stuff, it seems real sticky at first but doesn't hold up well.  I am adding contact cement to the foam tape-not rubber cement which I will have to be very careful with as once in place it stays put but has some resiliency like rubber cement but stronger. Similar to that used for cloth, leather, vinyl. I have used it in those applications successfully and hoping that will solve the problem. The prior suggestions about other stickier materials are well taken as are those about removing the original completely and adding the thicker Clavinova strips which look similar to the Casio multi-layered but appear to be a little more substantial.

 

The small white strip visible in these pics is identical to the one at the bottom of the PX350 but with mine at least, this ended up being a lesser part of the noise problem-this is where the key hammer returns when you release the key. I needed extra padding there too as this last description of the case bottom being part of the noise problem I found to be true as well-PX-350 keys when returning to the bottom position have the same small felt strip which is the only piece that prevents the key hammer from hitting the plastic case bottom which is pretty thin. Any key sound at its bottom resting position is amplified acoustically since it is largely hollow there and this does contribute to a secondary key clunk noise but isn't the one that bothered me the most-it's the upper clunk when you hit the key that makes the most offending noise IMO especially when this top strip has been compressed from playing repeatedly. Huge difference with better top felt.

[musically challenged]

Great photos and information, many thanks.  Viewing your initial posting I felt your were an experienced techi,  which was confirmed in another posting.

Now I, unfortunately, am a member of the "lesser beings" club, you know the  techincally challenged, wind up with left over parts after trying to repair something, etc, I choke

at the thought of taking apart my px-800. Granted the warranty is long gone, but the thought of braking something, lost parts, etc. leaves me terrified.

Plus the thought of all that money spent on the still working, but annoyingly leaves me cold.

 

It would be very helpful if Mike Martin or other Casio muckie-mucks could come up with a series of step-by-step videos on how to do common repairs for the various

Casio dp's. That would provide some much needed hand holding and maybe fewer tears and curse words shed. 

[Julian]

Hi all, especially Jokeyman,  In UK casio px350 is covered by 3 years warranty , if the key noise is clanky wouldn't you just refer it to Casio service and get them to fix it? The noise should have shown itself by then ?

[Jokeyman123]

Absolutely do not attempt this unless your intrument is not under warranty, mine was not. I would not have attempted this myself had I no previous experience and at least some technical knowledge of specifically music instrument and keyboard repair. And perhaps a screw loose somewhere and I'm not talking about the PX350!

[Jokeyman123]

One hopefully final addition to this post.

 

I had to redo some of my original work but it worked out in the final analysis and I stand by the improvement in key "feel" and response as greatly improved on mine at least and has been worth the trouble.

 

All the felt mods are holding up well. The only exception was the top strip I added, the one that cuts most of the key noise and that is located on the top section of the keyframe where the weighted hammers hit when the key is on the downstroke. This is the contact point that bears the brunt of the physical action of the key hammers. If you play with any degree of fortissimo, you are smashing into this strip with quite a bit of force.  I had used a 1/8" thick strip of double-sided foam tape to secure my additional 1/8" gray felt strip directly over the existing white Casio factory-installed felt. This tape failed to adhere over time, since this strip is hanging upside down while in playing position so is subject to gravity if not secured well. and my double-sided foam tape did not retain its holding power as I initially thought it would. Most of the other strips are not positioned like this although I used other materials which have retained their installed positions-between the body of the Casio and underneath the keybed for example but were not the source of most of the clunking anyway.

 

Since part of the sound-deadening was due to the thickness of this foam tape (I end up with 1/4" of total added padding, the maximum it will take before taking away from the key's "momentum" in mine) and I wished to keep it, I decided on a tricky fix. I used Pliobond contact cement (I've used this extensively for leathercraft and other repairs so have some experience with it) on the surfaces of the foam tape and on the felt. Not an easy process as this is a liquid. I had to be very careful as I needed to apply some of this to pieces in place. 

 

I removed most of my original modded pieces for re-assembly which made it a little easier. The result was finally completely successful, the entire length of the keybed now has a total of 1/4" of foam tape/felt directly over the original Casio strip which was not even 1/8" when compressed from playing although there is an additional small Casio foam strip under that. Anyone with a PX5s or PX Privia series who finds their keybed producing an unusually loud clunk on the downstroke,this is the source no question now that I have done this teardown 3 times, ouch! This is definitely why I would recommend to Casio that newer instruments with hammer action need to make this particular part "beefier"-like me! For those concerned with time constraints (who isn't) the total process of disassembly, repair and re-assembly took approximately 3 hours of concentrated work, with only an ocassional foray into the snack and drink area of my workspace and the option of additional painpills had I required it for my substantial headache and crossed eyes! Maybe now i can start playing the d*****ed thing!

[pablo1980]

Hello, I have stumbled to this thread searching for the answer to a rather strange question. it´s off topic so I it has an answer I can make a new topic.

 

I am looking to build a keyboard controller into my composer desk, so I am looking for a good action keybed but a very shallow case. I know that a lot of people have done this with doepfer or studiologic keyboards (fatar keybeds). But they are very difficult to find in my country.

 

So, I have read that the casio px 50 line has a very nice keyboard, and seeing that Jokeyman has dismantled his keyboard I would like to know if you think I can separate the keybed (leaving all the electronics and the front panel hidden below, inside the desk) and mount it on the desk.

And if it is doable, do you think the keyboard would measure around 10 cm tall?

 

thanks for reading, and sorry for the derailing.

[Julian]

hi Jokeyman,  did you post the dismantle instructions anywhere for the px350, I can only see the close up pics of keys which I have trouble understanding the positions u are in.

Would u consider posting a link on u tube or somewhere with the full instructions ( if you made them ) or alternatively to private e mail addresses?

 

thks

[bnolsen]

This is slightly off topic but I'm not sure where to ask this.  Just reboxing my px150 for a move and one of the keys is now popped up (and I'm really mad).  Pushing it down doesn't reset it.  Will it be possible to reset this key by taking the whole apart and getting access to the keybed?

[Jokeyman123]

bnolsen first-I can answer this one. There is a trick to getting  one of these PX keys back where it belongs-I discovered this with the CDP100 and the PX350, not sure if the PX150 is quite the same.

 

You will need to access the fulcrum arms (hammers) up underneath the keybed. Once you do this-look carefully at the key-there is a small rectangular piece underneath that is hollow inside. This piece is where the front of the fulcrum must be located-it must be inside this bracket to connect to the key and it will stay locked in once you get it there. Here is the tricky part.

 

There is a small rubber boot covering the front of the fulcrum-it is designed with a slight lip on top-it is contoured so that it is easier to take it out than it is to put back in. This is why you can't just push the key back into position-it is hitting the top part of the rubber lip. Carefully move the fulcrum arm all the way down (away from the key)-now push the key down and it should clear and gently pop back in place. Don't force it-it should go back in easily. it won't do this if the fulcrum arm is angled close to the key-up towards the top. you need to change the angle of the fulcrum in relation to the key to get this back in place. With the CDP-100 i simply need to remove a bottom panel and everything was right there. unfortunately with the PX350 and i think the PX150 is the same-you will have to remove the keyboard to get to this part.

 

As far as posting directions on youtube or elsewhere-this has been such a time-consuming and exhausting job, whatever is here will be all I can post. If you study my huge post, which took hours to accomplish, it is all there. I would remind anyone attempting this that:

 

1) This will destroy your warranty

 

2) You need to have experience doing this type of work. if you don't you can do alot of damage-expensive damage and

 

3) I wouldn't even think of doing this unless your board is seriously noisy or physically problematic. Casio tech repair is certainly capable of re-installing new parts if needed and i would do that first. I have had computer, electronic and repair training and experience and have built, repaired and worked on many electronics devices-not bragging but saying even with all that, this was not an easy project and you do this at your own risk.

[Jokeyman123]

Another word of caution-watch where you put your drinks and food! alot of my repair work has been due to stuff spilled or stuck in keys and other expensive components. There is alot of amperage (voltage might be only 5, 12 or 15 but its the amperage that can kill you) going through a typical computer circuit-even with keyboards a little liquid can do an amazing amount of damage, quickly!

 

I wouldn't even think about messing with anything with an AC power supply-including a wall-wart such as used with most Casio keyboards-unless you seriously know what you are doing. Larger capacitors hold dangerous voltage and amperage even when no power is going through a circuit. even a small one can give you a nasty shock. The one-hand rule-never use both hands anywhere near a live circuit. You become part of the circuit and whatever is flowing through the circuit flows through you. Voltage and amperage can go right through your heart with both hands even from a motherboard and you can become dead very quickly. Don't mean to scare anyone, but if I am, there is a reason.. You only get one chance to be dead-leave it to Casio tech repair if you are not qualified to do these things. Sorry Mike Martin if I have stepped over the line with this mod, I am having serious second thoughts about the post.  If you think I should withdraw it, please PM.

[bnolsen]

Thanks for the advice.  Tonight I finally had time to work on it so I went through the laborious task of taking the whole thing apart.  I disconnected the speakers and the pedal assembly wires and had my wife help me when I lifted out the key assembly.  I was able to pull down on the metal arm (I think that's the fulcrum arm??) which raised the key up more and using my finger just slightly pulled the plastic window towards the front and it slipped back together again.

 

Having a magnetic screwdriver is critical for getting those screws under the plastic windows back in.  I'll drop a few pics of disassembly tomorrow.  I should have taken some pictures of the fulcrum arm and the plastic window.  There sure are a ton of screws in the bottom of this thing!

[Jokeyman123]

Yep-I used poster putty for those screws because the fulcrum arms are steel/magnetic-kept catching on my magnetic screwdriver! I called the metal arms fulcrums because in an acoustic piano that's what these are mimicking. Careful with the screws-the mounts are all plastic and easy to strip. I replaced a few with a slightly oversize screw-a small piece of toothpick and some "crazy glue" could be used too but I thought a bigger screw would be better. But then I've had this apart more than once, and the constant vibrations in the plastic case contributed to the screws loosening in mine at least. Keep us posted, i think it's worth the effort. MIne is holding up well and the comfort level and noise reduction is substantial if done right.  I see somebody on eBay trying to sell this procedure as a pdf for the older CDP Privias (Not me!)

[bnolsen]

I was careful with reassembly.  I think I may have accidentally retapped one screw on the bottom.

 

Here's some very poor pictures from disassembly.  For the PX150 access to the electronics is very easy, you can get to them without pulling the speakers if you know which screws to drop.

 

http://imgur.com/hZzFnnD,1UZDAEr,0acoosK,3OBYF5P,mS9PdKj

[pchevalier]

I am on the process to restaure my noisy Privia keyboard. A first session has improved a good deal of noise using a foam self adhesive strip. I am testing the result through playing my favourites musics. I will then reopen the keyboard to observe and adjust.

 

At this stage I see 4 topics :

A - Screw. Be methodical when unscrewing : (note where are the screws difficult to see to avoid to have 2 or 3 left at the end), Be careful when screwing to avoid to damage the plastic. Use an adhesive to fix each screw on the screwdriver for the screws that take place in the holes under the traps.

B - Dissassembly carefully the plastic (4 hands needed) ; carefully disconnect the electronic connector strip. Place the parts on a sheet. The keybooard has to be returned turvy and placed on the "surgical table" 2 thick books (1 or 2 inches) are placed underneath at each end so that  the keys (mainly the black ones) are not pressed and that you can access freely to the 2 strips :

C The strips

We have to concentrate on this third topic : what strip shall we choose, shall we add because the used strip are thiner where the hammer strike) or replace ? The 2 strips need to be considered :

1/ key return strip - the upper one on the surgical table - (as the keyboard is upside down. It it is the bottom strip in playing position, that dampens when the keys are released or that dampens the return of keys ).

2/ the keystroke strip - The bottom one on the surgical table (when the keyboard is in playing position it is the upper strip where the hammer strikes)

I would condider 3 options  :

* the strip is not degraded  (about 1 year - it is the option I had to face to) :  It is sufficent and effective to add a self adhesive foam strip : 6 mm thick for the 1 (return strip) and eventually 3 mm of foam thick for the 2 (keystroke strip) 6 mm would be too much. It may not be necessary to modify anything here.

Good new : Auto adhesive foam strip (found in any brico store for 2 or 3 $ for 6 meters) sticks properly, it is easy to place it correctly for the 1/ and to remove the protective tape by attaching a sewing thread on tit and pulling steadily. For the 2 you have to turn first upside down the keyboard to introduce the strip (the hammer will move down) with its the sewing thread attached.

** the strip has very marked hollows. For the 1 a 3 mm neopren strip instead of the 3 mm foam and for the 2 a combinaison of 3 mm neopren and 3 or 6 mm foam

*** If the strip is degraded : it is not yet the case for my keyboard, then it maybe better to replace the 1 and the 2/ with a mixt of 10 mm neopren + 6 mm (2 or 4 $) foam or whith the Yamaha Clavinova ref V8484201 (30 $ each) .

 

4/ The interface between the key and the hammer. The end of the key (inside) is open so it can fit around the end of the hammer arm, which is coated in rubber. As this interface wears, slop develops between the key and the hammer. You clearly see the 1 or 2 mm beat when you take the end part of the key between 2 fingers. This needs to be explored. I will do it next time.

 

I would like to post some pictures if someone explains how to post files on my media library.

 

Some time ago, the french Casio distributor (NIKKEN TECHNO FRANCE)  accepted to repair my first Privia Keyboard (PM350) on basis of the demonstrative video I sent to them. It took them 2 months to change the complete mechanical part whereas they could have changed only the strips in one day.

After 6 months, the Privia PX 5S I bought to replace the PM 350 is suffering from the same disease.

I am sure that Casio will at the end decide to propose a set of quality strips comparable to the Yamaha Clavinova or a service "upgrading your keyboard".

[Jokeyman123]

Thanks bnolsen and pchevalier for yout posts.Glad to see my work is helping others here. and now after studying the pics of the PX150, the keyboard assembly does look almost identical to the PX350. Good look all.

[bnolsen]

Practicing my duet accompaniment piece over the weekend I noticed excess sound from the hammer falling back down.  Perhaps at some point I may consider some repad, but I'll have to be quite bored.  Piano isn't my primary instrument so this px150 doesn't get a ton of use, and we also have a yamaha upright that gets more play.

[MBooks]

I have a question that's a bit off topic.  Many posts here speak of a 3 year warranty on the PX-350.  Everything I've seen says the warranty is 1 year.  I've experienced speaker sound degradation that surfaced after my presumed 1 year warranty expired.  I've been searching for some time for any info on how to disassemble the unit.  This is by far the closest thing I've found.  But I'm surprised about the warranty statements.  Any suggestions on how I reconcile this?  My PX-350 had been opened at the store and was lacking the paperwork...I downloaded it from Casio's web site.

[MBooks]

I have a question that's a bit off topic.  Many posts here speak of a 3 year warranty on the PX-350.  Everything I've seen says the warranty is 1 year.  I've experienced speaker sound degradation that surfaced after my presumed 1 year warranty expired.  I've been searching for some time for any info on how to disassemble the unit.  This is by far the closest thing I've found.  But I'm surprised about the warranty statements.  Any suggestions on how I reconcile this?  My PX-350 had been opened at the store and was lacking the paperwork...I downloaded it from Casio's web site.

[Jokeyman123]

I cannot speak with official authority re the warranty issue, but if this was opened at the store, I would think they are liable for breaking the warranty and replacing the speakers.

 

But if you have no warranty, are willing to do the work-have the time and patience required, and have some prior experience with technical/mechanical/electronic repairs and procedures (alot of ifs!) you may find this very rewarding as the speakers are easily accessible once the top control panel hinges up but with one caveat....

 

The screws required to remove the middle panel (this needs to be hinged up to get the speaker compartments open) are the ones buried under the small screw-attached plastic covers on the bottom. Unless you have some type of system to secure these screws to your screwdriver, it will be quite impossible to retrieve these as they will fall and get buried in the PX350 mechanism-very bad and now you will have to take apart perhaps more than you want to. I use a smal spot of "poster putty" or a magnetic tip screwdriver although the magnetic screwdriver is tough because it will constantly attract the steel fulcrum arms to it, which are right next to the screws, eeessshhh!

 

In addition, there is one other trick which may get by you. Even after taking off the end caps., the speaker enclosures which also hinge up, have several screws in the sides under the end caps which must be removed, including 2 that are buried underneath a top lip of the speaker structure. If you don't look carefully with a flashlight, you will not notice these at all. Now you can bring up the entire speaker assembly and there they there. At least you will be able to see (and hear) what might be causing the problem. You "may" be simply hearing loose screws or speakers which can be re-tightened-use Loctite or something similar (not glue!) to keep the screws from vibrating loose if this is true for yours.

 

If the speakers are "blown" which is very possible since these speakers are rather small. If you have been playing with any degree of loudness for any length of time it is very possible, I don't know what you might replace these with-might need to get a few different kinds that match the physical dimensions and see which sound right-probably typical 8 ohm speakers but i didn't notice when I disassembled mine-there are 4 altogether, a very small one projects out the top and a larger (I think 3" diameter) fires out the back. The speaker screws were loose in mine  and I added some acoustic baffling material inside to dampen any excess vibrations-speakers not quite as loud like this but loud enough for in-home playing and worth having a better sound IMO. Hope this helps and good luck if you go through with this.

[MBooks]

Wow.  Thanks for the detailed response.  Regarding your multitude of "ifs", I am an engineer and quite comfortable disassembling and reassembling almost anything, as well as attacking electronics repair.  I will likely try to open up the unit this weekend.

 

As for what I expect to find or do when in there, I'm mostly looking for some gross problem such as a loose or frayed wire.  I do not play this unit with high volume.  In fact, I rarely play it without headphones (which still sound excellent).  So the installed speakers have seen very little usage.  The symptom is muffled sound, as though the bass is completely lost.  From your pictures (and your post) it appears there are really two separate speakers per channel.  My keyboard sounds as though I'm hearing only the smaller speakers.  It seems unlikely to me that I would have blown a speaker, let alone both channels. 

 

I will take all the precautions you list and give it a go this weekend.

[Jokeyman123]

You will therefore probably find this not all that difficult perhaps a little tedious. I always post this way, never assuming someone's experience or lack of.  I would not be too happy if someone with little or no experience followed my posts and did damage to their instrument.

 

Yes there are 2 speakers per side. Both looked like "general purpose" standard speakers although the smaller one may be designed as a higher frequency tweeter style but didn't look like a typical tweeter. More like a standard configuration small full range speaker but I could be wrong. As I think I already posted (not sure my memory doesn't retain all my posts!) I suspected that the lack of speaker damping material internally was causing vibrations with adjacent wiring and other components so that when playing through the speakers I would hear slight rattling at certain frequencies. As an engineer, I'm sure you will find any defects or anomalies reasonably obvious!  Let me know how you manage.

 

You will also be able to check the screws internally that secure the keybed and adjacent structures. i had to tighten quite a few of mine. Again, Loctite is not a bad idea especially with screws that will be affected by the mechanicals of the keybed. And watch out for the plastic screw anchor posts, very easy to strip out. Several on mine were already and this was supposed to be an "unused' store demo. Was still worth it. Got it for the price of a WK or CTK, definitely worth it!

[Jokeyman123]

Sigh, I must be a little neurotic-I am going to repeat this process with my new PX560. At least I now have the advantage of experience. Maybe I need to send my tech resume into Casio...could use a little extra money!

[Jokeyman123]

Well, maybe not. I think the felt strips on the PX560 look a little thicker-I'll wait!

[Jokeyman123]

There is one design weakness in the PX560 (IMO) that has not changed-keep in mind I'm pretty obsessive about sounds and other things-your results and opinions may be different but I am probably going to do this mod anyway, screwdriver be d*****!

 

As I detailed in the PX350 posts, one source of noise that seemed to be quite a bit of the problem was this.........the frame of the entire keyboard assembly is still mounted directly onto the bottom case of the PX560, just like the 350-there is only a very thin type of material between the keyframe and the bottom case. Since this bottom case is thin plastic, resilient but with very little "dampng" it actually acts a bit of a resonator for the keys when these return to the bottom upon key release. i am finding, even with slighty thicker and newer felt and foam padding on the PX560, there is still a somewhat clunky sound-not anything i would notice playing live-but definitely there if you have sensitive hearing-I must because I heard a chipmunk fart in my backyard the other day, and he was halfway down the driveway.

So this being the simplest (I didn't say easiest) part of my PX350 mod, I will probably go forward with it-although it does involve, again taking the whole shmeg apart, again. I will make sure I have a good supply of sedatives nearby, and the 1-800 helpline number for musicians gone wild, and the website www.helpmescrewmykeyboardbacktogether.com if all else fails. I need to get out more, I really do.

[Michael Ayers]

Probably off subject, but I really need anyone's help asap.

I put my px5s on the ground and stepped over it to get it's soft case, pulled the key up and out of the keybed.

Disassembled as noted in these pictures. I'm wondering how to take the hammer out since I think it's the damaged part.

Tried getting the part from pac parts ,but the website doesn't have pictures. If you've fixed yours with this problem please tell me how and where you got the parts.