Using sound libraries from a computer on the WK-7600

[DKNY]

Is it possible to record instruments from a computer-based sound library such as Spitfire or Vienna Symphonic Library to the sequencer on the WK-7600?

[- T -]

NO!  The WK-7600 is not a "sampler".  While it will record/playback audio songs/phrases/clips to/from the SD Card, you can not loop and spread them across a key-range to be played back from the keys as you could with a "sampling" workstation.  There is a typical delay of approximately 5 seconds from the time you press the "PLAY" button until a selected audio file begins playback, so even using this is quite dicey during a live performance, if timing is at all critical.

 

If sampling is your primary interest, you may want to look at the Casio XW-G1, or for more advanced features, the Yamaha Motif XS or XF, but true sampling on Arranger (Auto-accompaniment) Workstations is pretty much reserved for the higher end models ($2000 USD and up).

[DKNY]

Thanks, Tnicoson. I wasn't looking to sample. I just wanted to be able to record on the WK-7600 sequencer a track using, for example, the violins section of Vienna or Spitfire rather than the violins that are in the sound library of the WK-7600. I'm presuming from your response that this is not possible either.

 

[- T -]

Not really !  In a sense, you could, but the timing would be very kludgey.  Due to the inherent AND VARIABLE delay from the time the "PLAY" button is pressed until playback of an audio file (clip/phrase) is started, matching its exact start time to when it is needed is almost impossible.  The audio playback feature was provided mainly as just entertainment or for the playback of audio backing tracks that you match your playback timing to and play along with - sort of a keyboard-oke !

 

In your case, if you can/want to start your string section passage first, then match your playing to it, that should work just fine, but I assume you want to bring in the strings at some predetermined point mid-song.

[DKNY]

I'm still a little confused. I could lay down the Violins line first in the WK-7600 sequences and then add WK sounds to the other tracks afterward. Would there still be a delay problem?

[- T -]

You can not trigger the playback of an audio file with either the Pattern Sequencer or the Song Sequencer (MIDI).  Here again, that is a feature of a sampling workstation.  Playback of an audio file is strictly a manual operation.  Also, the audio recorder is not a multi-track recorder.  It is strictly a one-shot "erase as it records" stereo recorder.  Any subsequent attempt to record "additional" tracks (if that were possible) would erase any previously recorded tracks.  The reason for the delayed playback start of an audio file is that it is not pre-loaded into internal DIMM (sample) memory for instantaneous playback when triggered.  Rather, it is played back directly from the SD Card, so the delay is the time it takes the keyboard's operating system to do a file "look-up" and start playing it.  It is probably best not to look at the audio recorder as any type of sampling device.  It really isn't.  It is pretty much just a song recorder.  The Pattern Sequencer and the Song Sequencer ARE multi-track recorders, but they are MIDI recorders, not AUDIO recorders.

[DKNY]

Thanks, Tnicoson.

[DKNY]

One other question: Can the WK-7600 be used as a MIDI Controller/Input device if I want to use computer-based sound libraries with a computer-based sequencer? Or must I buy an actual Keyboard MIDI controller for this use?

[- T -]

If you are looking for basic "NOTE-ON / NOTE-OFF / VELOCITY / PITCH BEND / MODULATION" signal connectivity, then, YES.  The WK-7600 should be capable of that.  You will just need to study the manual(s) on MIDI set up to ensure that you are transmitting those signals on the MIDI channel(s) that your DAW software will be looking to receive them on.  The MIDI default settings can be a bit unconventional compared to straight Synth Workstations, but that is pretty much typical for Arranger Workstations.  Beyond that, using the new CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX units can be a bit hit or miss when it comes to use as MIDI Controllers.  Sadly, the DRAWBAR/SLIDERS and most panel buttons of the CTK/WK-7XXX units are dedicated to internal use only.  Several of us here on this forum have tried to coax them into transmitting either Continuous Controller (CC) messages or SYSEX messages, but so far, to no avail.  An additional problem with SYSEX message transmission is that the USB-MIDI ports are Class Compliant and thereby limit SYSEX capabilities.

 

I recently worked with another WK-7600 user here on getting it to respond to REVERB TYPE and CHORUS TYPE messages sent by the DAW software.  While the WK-7600 would respond to REVERB SEND and CHORUS SEND LEVEL messages, it would not respond to the TYPE messages.  Since these are SYSEX messages, I suspect that this may have something to do with the limitations of the Class Compliant USB-MIDI port.  If this is a hardware design limitation, then there is not much we can do about that, but if the aftermarket drivers that are offered for download on the Casio website provide FULL support as compared to the LIMITED support provided by the Class Compliant drivers that are built into Windows and MAC-OS, then that may be an answer to at least some of these problems.  I will look into that as soon I can clear some of these perennial "holiday items" off my To-Do list.  In the meantime, I heartily welcome input from any users who may have already tried this.

[DKNY]

Thanks, Tnicoson.

[- T -]

I connected my WIN-7 laptop, with its Class Compliant USB-MIDI drivers, to my CTK-7000 and tried sending REVERB TYPE and CHORUS TYPE SYSEX messages to it from Sonar, just as I had several weeks ago.  It still did not work.  After rereading the Sonar manual and doing some in-depth trouble shooting, I discovered that I was not embedding the Sysex codes properly into Sonar, so it really was not sending them.  Once this was corrected, the codes were sent, and the CTK-7000 responded perfectly, except that the codes shown in the CTK-7000/WK-7500 MIDI Implementation Manual are off by one for both items.  This would be the next to last hex byte immediately preceding the F7 termination byte.  For Reverb Type, the correct code choices are 00 thru 09, rather than 01 thru 0A as shown in the manual, and for Chorus Types - 00 thru 04, rather than 01 thru 05 as shown in the manual.  To see the changes reflected in the CTK/WK display, you must refresh the screen by pressing the RIGHT ARROW button once then the LEFT ARROW button once AFTER the Sysex codes are sent.

 

I then went back through my notes on my inability to get the CTK-7000's or WK-7500's sliders to transmit Continuous Controller (CC) messages via USB-MIDI and realized that this was only possible when the keyboard is in Drawbar Organ mode.  If I looked hard enough, I could probably find a statement to that effect in the manual somewhere.  Drawbar mode also enables the Rotary and Percussion buttons to transmit their respective CC messages.  I then noticed that I had overlooked the fact that the Tone Category buttons and Data Wheel transmit their CC messages even when the keyboard is not in Drawbar mode.  This now fits a comment made by another WK-7500 owner on a different forum that the Class Compliant USB-MIDI drivers are only limited when large amounts of data are being transmitted - large files, large data dumps, large Sysex Banks, extremely long Sysex messages, etc.  The problem appears to be buffer overflow related.  For the items we have discussed in relation to this matter up to now, Class Compliant MIDI drivers should not be a problem.

 

As to the question of using the CTK/WK-6XXX/7XXX units as MIDI Controllers, there is still a major limitation.  The CC, RPN, and NRPN messages sent by the various buttons and sliders are not "assignable".  They are not programmable.  They are not changeable.  The codes/messages they transmit are fixed by design to what the keyboard needs for its own internal use.  So, unless the device to be controlled can be programmed to accept whatever the CTK/WK is sending and perform the desired operation, the usefulness of this communication would be very limited, but it does open up the possibilities of what can be transmitted to and recorded by DAW software.  I think the message here is that if you want/need a MIDI Controller keyboard, you are much better off purchasing exactly that.  Trying to make a workstation, particularly an arranger workstation, do double duty as a controller usually ends up being just a compromise with a lot of short comings.

[Julian]

also. the wk 7600  will only work as a midi transmit controller data when in drawbar mode it allows certain cc nos to work with the sliders.

[- T -]

From my previous post above:

 

Posted 12 December 2014 - 08:36 PM

 

I then went back through my notes on my inability to get the CTK-7000's or WK-7500's sliders to transmit Continuous Controller (CC) messages via USB-MIDI and realized that this was only possible when the keyboard is in Drawbar Organ mode.